The True Football (Not American)/Futbol/Soccer Thread: Part VI

[cgf]

He's probably the 2nd best Korean player, got a pretty nice left foot.

Interesting, can you give me a little run down on his game and your thoughts? It's just a rumor, but he's one of the names I've seen linked to BMG that look like they might have legs.

 

[JWK]

Interesting, can you give me a little run down on his game and your thoughts? It's just a rumor, but he's one of the names I've seen linked to BMG that look like they might have legs.

I haven't watched him much at Dijon, except for highlights here and there and following stuff about him mainly on twitter.

He's 5'9, plays on the right side, has a nice left foot, and likes to cut inside to shoot. So basically he's Salah

 

[cgf]

I haven't watched him much at Dijon, except for highlights here and there and following stuff about him mainly on twitter.

He's 5'9, plays on the right side, has a nice left foot, and likes to cut inside to shoot. So basically he's Salah

Gotcha, you seen much of him before his move to france? Does he have the dribbling to go with it, or is he just a sweet foot like Grifo?

 

[JWK]

Gotcha, you seen much of him before his move to france? Does he have the dribbling to go with it, or is he just a sweet foot like Grifo?

Don't really watch the k-league like I mentioned, so I've only read about him. He was an exciting prospect but inconsistent. Seems like he's put it together this year which is nice to see since he's going to be an important player for us in the WC with other teams focusing on Son.

His dribbling is probably his best skill set.

 

[cgf]

Cool, well then he can come aboard alongside Assale lol.

...I'm really excited by that kid and going to be disappointed if a bigger team snipes him.

 

[cgf]

So I watched the Bayern game last night because they were starting so many kids from their academy, most of my thoughts are already in the german thread on the soccer board...but god damn.

-Franck Evina just looked phenomenal, he's a big prospect amongst the golden german 2000-born generation; but I didn't expect him to be that dynamic right off the bat against a team as gritty & defensively-committed as Frankfurt. Between Franck Jr. & the 2001-born Oliver Batista Meier (OBM); Bayern won't even have to buy anyone to replace Robbery. And with Coman, Müller, another year or two from Robben, Gnabry coming back from Hoffenheim eventually, and Hamez being able to deputize on the wings; they may not even need to buy anyone to help hold the fort while those kids transition into the 1st team.

-Lars Lukas Mai had a really nice debut. Not completely sold that he has Bayern-starter potential...at least not if Bayern intends to remain as strong there when Mats & Boa are gone...but he's a really talented kid, who thinks the game extremely well even if (like Süle) he isn't an A+ athlete. Would make sense for Bayern to let him start next season as their #4 CB; with Javi able to deputize there as cover if that role overwhelms Mai.

-Dorsch looked really sharp as well. Makes decisions very quickly, reads the play well, and has good ball skills. Can certainly see a Rudy-esque future for him; but I think he should move to a team like Bremen where he could play regularly behind some offensive talent before he's ready to take such a role for FCB.

-Shabani continues to underwhelm me. Don't see a bayern future for him even as a rotational guy; and I don't see a difference maker even for a midtable club.

After how shitty the 97 & 98 borns were, the good 99ers & excellent 2000ers/2001ers are a very welcome sight. Throw in the 2002ers looking deep in top talents and our biggest prospect at all age-levels being a 2004-born kid, and the 2014 world cup winners could end up looking like a flawed lesser-cousin of the team we could have in 2022 or 2026.

...even if it is annoying that f***ing Bayern is the club that not only has all of these young super-talents, but that it looks like they could actually integrate a handful of them successfully. As Früchtl is another one of the top 2000ers and Malik Tillman is a top talent in his age group as well. That's 3-5 CL-winner level starters that they appear to have in their pipeline already.

 

[Nzap]

Ronaldo do not screw this up.
Just rinse Arnold and Klavan a few times and make sure Pool won't win anything.
Okay?
For old times sake?

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Ronaldo do not screw this up.
Just rinse Arnold and Klavan a few times and make sure Pool won't win anything.
Okay?
For old times sake?

Klaven won't be on the pitch and Ronaldo can't take anyone 1v1 anymore. He's a 9 now. Pops in the box and strikes

 

[Nzap]

Klaven won't be on the pitch and Ronaldo can't take anyone 1v1 anymore. He's a 9 now. Pops in the box and strikes

Yeah I know on both accounts.
But nothing would now be sweeter than Ronaldo downing Pool.

And honestly, that is not very sweet at all, but the best possibility in this case.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

The sweetest thing would be for justice to prevail and Liverpool exposes the frauds. Defeats evil empire.

 

[cgf]

Justice will be decided later in the summer

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Justice will be decided later in the summer

With Mueller washed up and several other German players... we might just see justice prevail...indeed.

 

[cgf]

With Mueller washed up and several other German players... we might just see justice prevail...indeed.

It will be fun to watch a "washed up" Müller win the golden boat, beating Werner on assists for the crown, to take over the record for WC goals and secure our (Brazil-tying) 5th star

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

It will be fun to watch a "washed up" Müller win the golden boat, beating Werner on assists for the crown, to take over the record for WC goals and secure our (Brazil-tying) 5th star

While I don't want to get over confident(i'm not confident at all) I just don't see a German roster that can win a WC. They could/will trash Argentina though. Other than that it's pretty open and most teams have their own problems.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

So, I've been itching for some WC talk and decided to do a bracket challenge... Seems to me If Argentina and Germany are to meet it would be in the Semies. IF Argentina survives the quarters with f***ing Spain. In 2014 Argentina "lucked" out with having a relatively easier path to the final. This will be more gruelling. However, if they get to the final they face France/Brasil most likely... I like their odds at the point. Even with the curse of 3 final choke jobs.

 

[cgf]

While I don't want to get over confident(i'm not confident at all) I just don't see a German roster that can win a WC. They could/will trash Argentina though. Other than that it's pretty open and most teams have their own problems.

It's so weird to me to hear people say this because this german roster is much more loaded than the 2014 cup winners, or the 2016 unit that stumbled over France. Some of our biggest talents are now at positions that have been our weakest since the rebirth of german football...Kimmich at FB, Werner at ST, and Sane on the Wing...and the great CBs & midfield that won the WM for us are still at the height of their powers; only now their young backups are better as well...I mean, even if Neuer can't get back into form in time, MAtS has become world class and can more than fill in there.

Yes Brazil doesn't look like as much of a disaster, but that's cause you and them have swapped roles for this WM. France continues to mismanage it's way out of becoming the major threat that they should be with that much talent. And I don't think Spain's kids are ready to take over for the past generation enough for them to be favored against us either. So the opposition doesn't seem that much more threatening than it did in Rio...while we're clearly stronger.

If we fail to win I will hold it entirely against Jogi, even moreso than I did the euros...where injuries really did leave him behind the 8ball.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

It's so weird to me to hear people say this because this german roster is much more loaded than the 2014 cup winners, or the 2016 unit that stumbled over France. Some of our biggest talents are now at positions that have been our weakest since the rebirth of german football...Kimmich at FB, Werner at ST, and Sane on the Wing...and the great CBs & midfield that won the WM for us is still at the height of their powers; only now their young backups are better as well.

Yes Brazil doesn't look like as much of a disaster, but that's cause you and them have swapped roles for this WM. France continues to mismanage it's way out of becoming the major threat that they should be with that much talent. And I don't think Spain's kids are ready to take over for the past generation enough for them to be favored against us either. So the opposition doesn't seem that much more threatening than it did in Rio...while we're clearly stronger.

You're "clearly" stronger based on absolutely nothing. Just German eyes lol. Nuer is out and might not make in time. So, clearly weaker in that regard. Defence Hummels is still hummels who's his partner? Boateng step below and injured as of now. Kimmich is a beast. Not sure about the RB though. At the midfield Kroos has been out of form. No Schiwein or Gundogen.

NO Klose replaced with unknowns at the WC.

Germany's kids are ready to take the next step but Spain's kids nope. Based on nothing but your love for Germany. Combine that with a subpar coach and Germany has as many holes or question marks as any other big team.

 

[cgf]

Our kids' aren't ready to carry us to the cup either...but we don't need them to...

-Even if Neuer doesn't return we're not much weaker with MAtS in there instead, though yes this is one spot we're likely to be not quite as good...though frankly even if we have to roll with MAtS it's not like we stop having a world class keeper

-Boateng is still just as good as he ever was and is supposed to be back in time for the pre-tourney training camp.
-Plus between Süle, Tah & Ginter the backups are much stronger than they were with Howedes, Rudiger & Mustafi.

-Werner is a lot better than what we got out of Klose at that WM, come on now. A legend in his day, but that WM long after his days had past & he played a bit part in that team.

-Kimmich is the RB, Hector will probably be the LB if we go back 4...if Itter doesn't just run with the job in camp, as his BuLi showings have been good and he's a massive talent who should be even better than Kimmich in time...and possibly Sane when we play with a back 3 & wingbacks.

-Gundo's never played for the NT
-And so what about Schweini? He was up & down in that WM as age limited him, and we have better options for that rotational midfield role, even if Jogi doesn't even consider half of them...

And the years have numbed me to Barca-fans' critiques of Toni ;-)

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Spain don't need their kids to carry the load either. Isco in his prime and is an experienced WC player. Thiago. Saul. Koke. Striking they're weak as usually but Rodrigo,Costa and Asaps to could be a lot worse and better than most teams. Even Paco.

Defence they have Alba,Carvahal,Pique and Ramos with DDG. Really the kids only have to show up and do minimal stuff.

I love MAtS think he's highly underrated probably a top 3 goalie right now but Nuer he is not. That guy revolutionized the keeper position and was the greatest at what he did. It's a clear step below. Mind you it blows most teams out of the water but luckily for other teams they don't need a Nuer type to win a WC.

Boateng coming off injured whether he makes it healthy we'll see. It's still a question mark. He's also not as good as he was 4 years ago. Again all those players are unknown so, all question marks. LOL at Ginter... last i checked he was brain dead and slow as f***. So, he isn't going to get anyone worried about facing him.

Klose was declining but he was a known commodity... We'll see if Werner can do in his first world cup.

I meant the LB.... as i said I think Kimmich is stellar. So, Hector... yeah nothing to write home about.

Schweini was slipping but better than what Germany has no. Please don't you dare say Dahoud or Weigl! The fact that Gundogen never made to the NT is kinda my point it had more to do with injuries than anything but right now he'd walk into NT no question if he were healthy.

I like Toni but it's obvious the major of Madrid players are having down years. His defence as always been questionable though.

 

[cgf]

Not gunna lie, I totally forget that Thiago isn't quite as injury-prone as Ilkay & didn't get hurt in the Real match yesterday. Koke & Saul don't scare me without him; but with him fit that unit should challenge our midfield...but their attack is still a letdown, even with Asensio's ascension

MAtS isn't Neuer yet, but he's always been an even more spectacular shot stopper and at this point, he has few betters as a sweeper other than Neuer (and Sommer). We didn't Neuer to bail us out either, but we had him just in case, and now we have a different world class keeper just in case

We're not going to agree on Boa, he was healthier, but he's still the best CB on the planet when fit.

And yes Ginter, he's made a ton of progress and now is a much more solid depth option than Howedes / Mertesacker / Mustafi / Rudiger where when they had to play for the NT...but he's not on the same level as Süle or Tah, so would be our 5th best CB...with Kimmich able to crush it in a back 3 when we play those shapes.

Werner doesn't have to do much to do more than Klose did at that last WC, and he's a big game player.

Hector doesn't need to be anything to right home about for he & Kimmich to be the best duo we've had since Lahm was in his prime...which he wasn't anymore at that WM, though spending all season at the 6 did help him leave more in the tank for the summer when he did play half the tourney at FB.

As for Toni, club form isn't NT form. Mesut's club form has never prevented him from driving our attacks, and neither has Toni's. I don't worry about them at all, and I only worry about our midfield if Jogi is dumb enough to play Khedira alongside them.

Gundogan literally only didn't play in any tourneys for the NT because of his health. When fit he was a starter for us in qualifiers going back to when he first broke through. If healthy he would've walked in over Schweini just like he'd walk in ahead of Dahoud / Weigl / Geiger / Demirbay / Goretzka / Kramer / Rudy / Meyer, so that is a nonsensical point to bring up. You're either massively over-rating how much Schweini had left in the tank, under-rating the current german midfielders, or some combination of the two.

 

[AdamCalderHero]

All this talk when its clear an Milner/Young/Sterling axis will lead England to the victory ..... smh

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Not gunna lie, I totally forget that Thiago isn't quite as injury-prone as Ilkay & didn't get hurt in the Real match yesterday. Koke & Saul don't scare me without him; but with him fit that unit should challenge our midfield...but their attack is still a letdown, even with Asensio's ascension

- Thiago is injury prone but again they are more than capable of providing cover for him. Isco as the main creator and getting support from the other two for offence. This and I completely forgot Silva and Iniesta.

- Nuer bailed you out on a couple occasions against the greatest Nation in Argentina. Plus he has that fear factor.

- Boa is definitely not on the same level...based on Munich.

- Based on what the 2 games Toni played in friendlies? Like I said Germany has a lot going for them and they are one of the favourites but to claim they have no holes or zero question marks is hilarious. Especially, if your writing off Spain who look to be either on the same level if not slightly better.

 

[Alex Jones]

Hey @JWK , is Chang Hun Kwon good enough for Gladbach or would that just be a marketing signing?

It's a not happening signing.

Not good enough for BMG, doesn't have a true position on a side of that strength. Has some attractive qualities, as he is a hard worker with good movement, dribbling, and okay shooting.

Extremely reliant on cutting inside, as he isn't very good down the wing. Realistically he's going to drift inside to play closer to that of a second striker. Doesn't have natural passing instincts or the passing range to play in the middle, and doesn't really bring the physical traits that you look for in a wing. He is a good dribbler, but I think his natural lack of size/strength are going to make it hard for him to create his own shots cutting inside off of the wing in a bigger league.

He was used as a CM in Suwon, but that's a league where your passing doesn't really matter as most attacks are centered around either bombing the ball forward or guys just taking it themselves up the pitch. There's a reason why he's never really been used in that position in Europe, his future is on the wing.

Has some interesting skills that I think will take him to a top four league, although I'm not sure I see him as a lot more than a backup player that can come in at like '75 for some extra shooting off the wing for teams that aren't at the bottom of the table.

 

[cgf]

For what it's worth, BMG have had a lot of success improving guys like that's passing when they've played with Raffa n Lars; Traore being the prime example of a 26 year old who had severe tunnel-vision when he arrived, but improved dramatically in that part of his game.

Allare has similar limitations to his passing game but he's still young enough for me to be rooting for them to sign him.

 

[cgf]

- Thiago is injury prone but again they are more than capable of providing cover for him. Isco as the main creator and getting support from the other two for offence. This and I completely forgot Silva and Iniesta.

- Nuer bailed you out on a couple occasions against the greatest Nation in Argentina. Plus he has that fear factor.

- Boa is definitely not on the same level...based on Munich.

- Based on what the 2 games Toni played in friendlies? Like I said Germany has a lot going for them and they are one of the favourites but to claim they have no holes or zero question marks is hilarious. Especially, if your writing off Spain who look to be either on the same level if not slightly better.

I've argued about Silva enough times lately not to re-hash it again, but lemme just leave it at Isco, Saul & Koko don't scare me enough to worry about us having to concede possession & play on the counter...even though that would play to Sane & Werner's strengths.

Boateng is on the same level based on his play for Bayern, stop being silly.

Based on hearing the same thing about Mesut's club form for years. They play differently for the NT & have different roles, so their form is different to. None of our strengths are are actually any weaker than they have been previously unless we have to play MAtS, who's a slight step down from Neuer, and our prior weaknesses are now positions at which we have world class talents breaking through. Those are just facts. I understand that people have grown bored of Germany's dominance since Spain's collapse, especially since some other big nations fell apart during this time...Brazil, Spain, the Netherlands and more recently Italy & Argentina have fallen apart as Brazil & Spain have risen again...but that hasn't diminished german dominance atm. Jogi f***ed up in 2016 or we'd be heading into this as defending World & European champions with the best striker we've had this millennium.