The Sopranos - what am I missing?

[b1e9a8r5s]

I thought that this was a thread about the greatest TV shows of the last couple of decades. I watched 15 minutes of The Wire, decided that it was overrated and turned it off. The greatest show of all time should hold one's attention for longer than 15 minutes, IMO. I don't know how the OP can have the patience to give a show that he doesn't like 10 episodes, but I admire it.

(braces for backlash)

I don't care if you think the Wire is or isn't the greatest show ever. But the bolded is hilariously stupid.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

The biggest issue is that The Sopranos is dated. In the moment, it felt fairly radical. It isn’t Goodfellas/Scarface/Godfather/etc. and defiantly isn’t so. It blended the occasion thrill of classic gangster shenanigans with the neurosis and personal turmoil of headier stuff. That juxtaposition of the profane and the mundane was fresh. Or at least seemed fresh in the way David Chase presented it. So many others have taken bits and pieces of this and ran with it over the years that The Sopranos can feel a little stodgy and dull these days. This might be an odd comparison, but for me I liken it to movies like The Graduate and Easy Rider in the sense that both were these sorta big, radical events that came along at a time when mass film was pretty stale so they’re always going to be beloved and revered. But for me personally, seeing those movies years after the peak relevance, I just don’t hold them in as high esteem as others (many of whom experienced them at or close to their moment). Time just dulls some things. There are probably better comparisons. This one just happens to be mine.

As for the product of The Sopranos itself. It’ll never be my #1, but it is up there. (Again, I think seeing it in the moment biases me a little bit). Two big problems for me with the show. 1. The real life death of one actor created a hole the show struggled to fill in its later seasons. 2. It was a victim of its own success and probably stretched on a little too long due to everyone (rightly) wanting to capitalize and make some $$$$. I think it was around an 80 episode series and it probably would have been much better at about 60 episodes.

BUT if you’re watching for the gangster stuff and you’re already peeved by the family -- save your time and bail. That element is always there and if you don’t like it now it’s probably never going to grow on you. I liked the dual stresses on Tony and thought that is one of the things that made the show special. I know others disagree and just wanted mo’ murderin’.

 

[Osprey]

I don't care if you think the Wire is or isn't the greatest show ever. But the bolded is hilariously stupid.

Why, thank you. I believe that, if you're going to be stupid, you might as well do it hilariously.

 

[The Madrigal]

I forgot about the Wire. Great show as well. Team Avon all the way. Marlo and his crew were chumps.

 

[kook10]

The biggest issue is that The Sopranos is dated. In the moment, it felt fairly radical. It isn’t Goodfellas/Scarface/Godfather/etc. and defiantly isn’t so. It blended the occasion thrill of classic gangster shenanigans with the neurosis and personal turmoil of headier stuff. That juxtaposition of the profane and the mundane was fresh. Or at least seemed fresh in the way David Chase presented it. So many others have taken bits and pieces of this and ran with it over the years that The Sopranos can feel a little stodgy and dull these days. This might be an odd comparison, but for me I liken it to movies like The Graduate and Easy Rider in the sense that both were these sorta big, radical events that came along at a time when mass film was pretty stale so they’re always going to be beloved and revered. But for me personally, seeing those movies years after the peak relevance, I just don’t hold them in as high esteem as others (many of whom experienced them at or close to their moment). Time just dulls some things. There are probably better comparisons. This one just happens to be mine.

As for the product of The Sopranos itself. It’ll never be my #1, but it is up there. (Again, I think seeing it in the moment biases me a little bit). Two big problems for me with the show. 1. The real life death of one actor created a hole the show struggled to fill in its later seasons. 2. It was a victim of its own success and probably stretched on a little too long due to everyone (rightly) wanting to capitalize and make some $$$$. I think it was around an 80 episode series and it probably would have been much better at about 60 episodes.

BUT if you’re watching for the gangster stuff and you’re already peeved by the family -- save your time and bail. That element is always there and if you don’t like it now it’s probably never going to grow on you. I liked the dual stresses on Tony and thought that is one of the things that made the show special. I know others disagree and just wanted mo’ murderin’.

Actually, it really was that David Chase just didn't know how to end it. Gandolfini really wanted out.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

The biggest issue is that The Sopranos is dated. In the moment, it felt fairly radical. It isn’t Goodfellas/Scarface/Godfather/etc. and defiantly isn’t so. It blended the occasion thrill of classic gangster shenanigans with the neurosis and personal turmoil of headier stuff. That juxtaposition of the profane and the mundane was fresh. Or at least seemed fresh in the way David Chase presented it. So many others have taken bits and pieces of this and ran with it over the years that The Sopranos can feel a little stodgy and dull these days. This might be an odd comparison, but for me I liken it to movies like The Graduate and Easy Rider in the sense that both were these sorta big, radical events that came along at a time when mass film was pretty stale so they’re always going to be beloved and revered. But for me personally, seeing those movies years after the peak relevance, I just don’t hold them in as high esteem as others (many of whom experienced them at or close to their moment). Time just dulls some things. There are probably better comparisons. This one just happens to be mine.

As for the product of The Sopranos itself. It’ll never be my #1, but it is up there. (Again, I think seeing it in the moment biases me a little bit). Two big problems for me with the show. 1. The real life death of one actor created a hole the show struggled to fill in its later seasons. 2. It was a victim of its own success and probably stretched on a little too long due to everyone (rightly) wanting to capitalize and make some $$$$. I think it was around an 80 episode series and it probably would have been much better at about 60 episodes.

BUT if you’re watching for the gangster stuff and you’re already peeved by the family -- save your time and bail. That element is always there and if you don’t like it now it’s probably never going to grow on you. I liked the dual stresses on Tony and thought that is one of the things that made the show special. I know others disagree and just wanted mo’ murderin’.

I'm blanking on this. Who are you talking about?

 

[kook10]

I'm blanking on this. Who are you talking about?

His mother. Nancy Marchand / Livia

 

[Shareefruck]

I thought that this was a thread about the greatest TV shows of the last couple of decades. I watched 15 minutes of The Wire, decided that it was overrated and turned it off. The greatest show of all time should hold one's attention for longer than 15 minutes, IMO. I don't know how the OP can have the patience to give a show that he doesn't like 10 episodes, but I admire it.

(braces for backlash)

The ability to "hold one's attention" must be one of the most overrated aspects of entertainment out there, IMO. It barely has any relation whatsoever with how rewarding something can be (in the meaningful sense, anyways), only how accessible and welcoming it is (and nobody would argue that The Wire is really accessible). And often, it's just a gimmicky detraction from quality.

The most rewarding things out there (in any medium) usually don't just cater to your sensibilities and beg you for your attention, they do their own thing and you either take the time/effort to invest in it and appreciate what it does/doesn't accomplish or not.

Getting bored early on and refusing to find out where it's going is understandable, I guess, but doesn't really suggest anything at all about how good or bad it is.

It's just the equivalent of not watching something in the first place because it doesn't interest you.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

His mother. Nancy Marchand / Livia

Wow, I somehow never knew that. It must have been because I didn't watch the 1st several seasons as they aired and got up to speed before the last one. Thanks.

 

[kook10]

Wow, I somehow never knew that. It must have been because I didn't watch the 1st several seasons as they aired and got up to speed before the last one. Thanks.

If you re-watch the Season 3 Ep 2 you will notice that they took old footage of her and digitally superimposed her onto a standin for the scenes. They crowbarred her saying old lines into the story. The CGI looks terrible now, but to be fair it looked good at the time.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

I'd say season 1 is one of the weaker seasons of the show. That said there are definitely portions that haven't aged well, and the OP's complaint about Tony's kid is valid. AJ in particular is one of the worst characters of any show I can think of; poorly realized and acted.

 

[JackSlater]

The Sopranos is one of my favourite shows ever, but I can see that there are flaws. Criticizing the kids is perfectly valid. They are poor characters who are portrayed with some of the worst acting ever seen on HBO. AJ is basically nothing and fails whenever they try to give him a storyline while Meadow is merely infuriating most of the time. Richie Aprile was also portrayed poorly. Sometimes the show was too myopic (to the point of pretension) and focused on storylines that weren't interesting, particularly with regard to dreams and psychiatry. Storylines would pretty much just drop sometimes (Furio) and that was annoying. Livia's death was forced obviously and very unfortunate. The show also gets extra mileage out of being one of the first (and best) television shows that was structured like a novel in terms of scope and detail. The big hit dramas at the time The Sopranos started were shows like ER, Law and Order, The Practice, West Wing. Those shows lacked the depth of the Sopranos (particularly the first three) and due to the constraints of network TV couldn't hope to match the Sopranos in terms of grit or even simple realism. A show looks better when its competition in general is far inferior, though I admit to really enjoying 90s Law and Order and The Practice.

All that said, the Sopranos had some real strengths. There were small moments in the Sopranos, details, that really make it stand out from other shows. The little jokes that would pop up from time to time like Sylvio's Pacino impression and Paulie's malapropisms. Small details like Tony always getting mad when Junior took a shot at his football days. The main strength was the characters though. Tony Soprano is still one of the greatest, most detailed characters TV has ever seen. We see lots to hate and like about Tony, even contradictory things, and really come to understand him. Most of the supporting characters in Tony's crew are great, fully realized characters, even if we don't like them a lot of the time. Livia and Ralphie are two of the best villains I've ever seen on TV, with Livia being probably my favourite villain ever on that medium. As bad as some of the actors were, the actors playing Tony, Carmella, Livia, Ralphie, Janice were all tremendous. The Sopranos felt like a fully realized world to a degree that very, very few shows ever have.

For the purposes of this thread, I don't think that things significantly improve after season 1. I think that season 1 is tremendous. I would rate seasons 1 through 4 as great, while the subsequent seasons are far more uneven. The first part of season six in particular is actually painful to watch.

Last - Breaking Bad is a horrible show that doesn't hold a candle to even the lowest points of The Sopranos. Terrible, terrible show.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

If you re-watch the Season 3 Ep 2 you will notice that they took old footage of her and digitally superimposed her onto a standin for the scenes. They crowbarred her saying old lines into the story. The CGI looks terrible now, but to be fair it looked good at the time.

Watching it now is soooooooo bad and cringy haha.

 

[GarbageGoal]

Finish watching it. Season 3, 4 and 5 are the best combination of writing and acting ever in any media.

 

[kook10]

Storylines would pretty much just drop sometimes (Furio) and that was annoying. ....

Furio / Federico Castelluccio supposedly pissed off David Chase by revealing a spoiler and/or badmouthing the show.

 

[The Madrigal]

Finish watching it. Season 3, 4 and 5 are the best combination of writing and acting ever in any media.

I'm going to finish watching it. I think it's good, just not great. Maybe I'm being silly but a big factor is the terrible picture quality which I heard gets a lot better in season 2.

After the Sopranos I think I'll finally start on Game of Thrones.

 

[Dueling Banjos]

His mother. Nancy Marchand / Livia

aka Mike Babcock

 

[Dueling Banjos]

Finish watching it. Season 3, 4 and 5 are the best combination of writing and acting ever in any media.

I agree. It takes off after the 1st season. If you just listen to Tony, his accent is sort of neutral in the 1st season, it becomes much more pronounced later and that alone plays a big part.

One need to do research and get to know most if not all characters, how are they related to each other, history between them. That's a must imo.

 

[GarbageGoal]

I agree. It takes off after the 1st season. If you just listen to Tony, his accent is sort of neutral in the 1st season, it becomes much more pronounced later and that alone plays a big part.

One need to do research and get to know most if not all characters, how are they related to each other, history between them. That's a must imo.

I think one needs to listen close. I don't believe in doing outside homework, but the great thing about the Sopranos is the little news clips and things like that let you draw a family tree so to speak.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

You watched all the great shows of the last 20 years and didn't watch BSG or The Wire.

Shame on you

Also, TWD is great?

 

[Dueling Banjos]

I think one needs to listen close. I don't believe in doing outside homework, but the great thing about the Sopranos is the little news clips and things like that let you draw a family tree so to speak.

I can agree. It's just that it's so many names and characters and i wanted to be sure so i found research useful.

Bottom line, like with so many great shows, you need to see it 3,4,7 times, plenty of details come out later.

 

[The Madrigal]

You watched all the great shows of the last 20 years and didn't watch BSG or The Wire.

Shame on you

Also, TWD is great?

I watched The Wire, forgot to mention that. What is BSG?

As for your last comment, to each their own.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

If you've watched all the great shows of the past 20 years I assume you've seen Six Feet Under as well?

True Detective S1 and Band of Brothers are also must watches.

BSG is Battlestar Galactica or something like that.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

I watched The Wire, forgot to mention that. What is BSG?

As for your last comment, to each their own.

It's Battlestar Galactica, the most critically acclaimed Science Fiction show since TNG, though it may have been eclipsed now by the Expanse.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

I’d stick with it. But I warn you AJ doesn’t get any better and Janice makes you want to blow your brains out as well.

As for Breaking Bad. I liked it but I think it’s extremely overrated.