The Sopranos - what am I missing?

[Shareefruck]

One thing that annoys me whenever the topic of the greatest shows come up is that everyone always treats it like a forgone conclusion that the best shows must be dramas. As if the genre were inherently superior or something.

Most acclaimed dramas do not hold a candle to the best comedies, IMO. There is way more inspired substance, craft, and creativity to something like The Simpsons or Seinfeld than there is to something as good as even Six Feet Under.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

People always say this, but that Hamsterdam experiment has been attempted in real life and CJA scholars like David Kennedy have advocated for something similar to be implemented.

Yeah, while watching it, unbelieavble isn't a word that came to my mind.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

While we are at it I will name a couple of recent shows that got a lot of hype that I think are extremely overrated.

Stranger Things
Decent show. Love how they captured the look and feel of the early 80's so well. Season 1 was solid, I thought season 2 was kind of a mess.

Absolutely love love loved season 1, but I agree that season 2 was a mess.

Spoiler: Season 2 spoiler

The idea of romantacizing Eleven and introducing another girl for the express purpose of having Lucas and Dustin fight over her is ridiculous. Jonathan and Nancy's little sleepover was also a bit weird. I always knew those two were going to get freaky, but the way it happened was creepy as f***. Some crazy conspiracy theorist gets them drunk on cheap Vodka and plays pimp in his back-woods fallout shelter... jesus.

And re-using the whole "put Will's drawings together end to end and form one big picture" thing was ridiculous. I'm pretty good at suspending my disbelief, but I was literally yelling at the television when Winona Ryder was acting like she didn't know what to do when Will had his scribbled drawings all over the place. lol

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

One thing that annoys me whenever the topic of the greatest shows come up is that everyone always treats it like a forgone conclusion that the best shows must be dramas. As if the genre were inherently superior or something.

Most acclaimed dramas do not hold a candle to the best comedies, IMO. There is way more inspired substance, craft, and creativity to something like The Simpsons or Seinfeld than there is to something as good as even Six Feet Under.

I think a lot if it because most of the top dramas run their course and the series ends.

Whereas a lot of the top comedies stay way past their expiration date to the point of becoming very bad shows. Even some like Family Guy and The Simpsons stay around long enough to arguably have more bad episodes than good.

 

[Shareefruck]

I think a lot if it because most of the top dramas run their course and the series ends.

Whereas a lot of the top comedies stay way past their expiration date to the point of becoming very bad shows. Even some like Family Guy and The Simpsons stay around long enough to arguably have more bad episodes than good.

Even so, there are shows like the Office UK, Spaced, Arrested Development, The Larry Sanders Show, Blackadder, Monty Python's Flying Circus, or Freaks and Geeks (all significantly better than at least the second tier of dramas, IMO). Yet when it comes to greatest TV show talk, people act like dramas (even the ones that are essentially just roller-coaster rides) are the only genre that qualify.

It's almost like seriousness is sometimes mistaken for quality and substance.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

TBF that's kind of the whole point of her character.

Johnny Sacks getting so pissed about people making fun of his fat wife...

Surely you meant '' Rubenesque '' here, no?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Even so, there are shows like the Office UK, Spaced, Arrested Development, The Larry Sanders Show, Blackadder, Monty Python's Flying Circus, or Freaks and Geeks (all significantly better than at least the second tier of dramas, IMO). Yet when it comes to greatest TV show talk, people act like dramas (even the ones that are essentially just roller-coaster rides) are the only genre that qualify.

It's almost like seriousness is sometimes mistaken for quality and substance.

yeah, but that happens in more arenas than just TV.

When's the last time a comedy got any nominations for the Big 5 at the Oscars?

 

[Shareefruck]

yeah, but that happens in more arenas than just TV.

When's the last time a comedy got any nominations for the Big 5 at the Oscars?

Right, I agree, and it's ridiculous.

True Detective and Fargo will almost always reliably be mentioned in these discussions before Arrested Development is, which is pretty nuts to me.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Right, I agree, and it's ridiculous.

True Detective and Fargo will almost always reliably be mentioned in these discussions before Arrested Development is, which is pretty nuts to me.

I see some comedies get mentioned regularly in the "greatest" lists and debates. Granted current/modern comedies dont seem to be held in that same regard.

MASH, I Love Lucy, All In The Family, Taxi, Seinfeld, Friends, The Simpson all routinely make such lists.

 

[Shareefruck]

I see some comedies get mentioned regularly in the "greatest" lists and debates. Granted current/modern comedies dont seem to be held in that same regard.

MASH, I Love Lucy, All In The Family, Taxi, Seinfeld, Friends, The Simpson all routinely make such lists.

When publications make lists, trying to cover all their bases and touch on everything that was culturally significant and rank it based on that, definitely (even things like "Friends" show up in those).

When just arguing quality, it's usually The Sopranos, The Wire, and then a snowball of lesser dramas that come after, I find.

That said, admittedly I'm projecting here-- It's more a general gripe I have than something that's entirely unwarranted in this thread (although I still feel a hint of it).

 

[NyQuil]

Would there be higher calibre comedy movies coming out if they were recognized with dedicated Academy Awards for films and performances?

The Golden Globes do it, but it's not an Oscar.

 

[Shareefruck]

Would there be higher calibre comedy movies coming out if they were recognized with dedicated Academy Awards for films and performances?

The Golden Globes do it, but it's not an Oscar.

To be fair, the good/substantial comedies do get some recognition (well, sometimes). Get Out was nominated, for example. But there's definitely some bias against them.

 

[NyQuil]

To be fair, the good/substantial comedies do get some recognition (well, sometimes). Get Out was nominated, for example.

It seems to be pretty rare.

Kevin Kline won for A Fish Called Wanda and Marisa Tomei won for My Cousin Vinny as far as performances go.

There are dramedy types roles like "As Good As It Gets" and "Forrest Gump" that have better success.

 

[Shareefruck]

It seems to be pretty rare.

Kevin Kline won for A Fish Called Wanda and Marisa Tomei won for My Cousin Vinny as far as performances go.

There are dramedy types roles like "As Good As It Gets" and "Forrest Gump" that have better success.

I feel like great movie-comedies that are deserving of those types of accolades and also get enough exposure are pretty rare as well, though. I wouldn't want Apatow movies and things like Date Night winning oscars.

It's a lot more unjust with TV Comedies, which IMO, have probably been stronger than TV dramas on the whole but are treated like lesser things

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

The annoying or hair pulling characters are written that way on purpose because thats how they would actually be

 

[Osprey]

I'm amused that some of you took me seriously and have been arguing over it. I was originally going to say that I stopped watching The Wire after 15 minutes because it didn't grab me and I decided that it likely wasn't or would ever be my cup of tea, but that didn't seem funny and I was in a joking mood, so I called it overrated to spice things up and stir the pot, instead. I thought that I made it stupid enough that it was obvious that I wasn't serious. I guess not. I do appreciate you trying to defend me, though, Supermassive .

 

[Shareefruck]

I'm amused that some of you took me seriously and have been arguing over it. I was originally going to say that I stopped watching The Wire after 15 minutes because it didn't grab me and I decided that it likely wasn't or would ever be my cup of tea, but that didn't seem funny and I was in a joking mood, so I called it overrated to spice things up and stir the pot, instead. I thought that I made it stupid enough that it was obvious that I wasn't serious. I guess not. I do appreciate you trying to defend me, though, Supermassive .

I think you may be underestimating just how stupid things that people normally say can get. Pretty sure a lot of people do actually think that way. (you know, that whole, "if it were any good, it would be popular and grab you right away" mentality)

In any case, it's a relief that you don't actually think that.

 

[Saskatoon]

I feel like great movie-comedies that are deserving of those types of accolades and also get enough exposure are pretty rare as well, though. I wouldn't want Apatow movies and things like Date Night winning oscars.

It's a lot more unjust with TV Comedies, which IMO, have probably been stronger than TV dramas on the whole but are treated like lesser things

I agree that pretty much any genre can produce top tier TV but out of curiosity what comedies would you put in the top tier? For me it's probably only Arrested Development. Mind you my top tier is probably really small. I am probably forgetting something but for me would be The Wire, Arrested Development, Game of Thrones, Band of Brothers, and Sopranos (although GOT while still really entertaining seems to be slipping a bit).

My random guess is that it is easier for comedies to keep running on past their due date and get repetitive. For example I think the Simpsons still makes good TV but only the first 10 seasons or so I find to be excellent(which is still a lot). I love the first few seasons of Community but the show really struggles when it bounces around networks in the last few seasons of its life. I really enjoy Seinfeld but not sure I would rate it top tier from start to finish.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I have eventually watched just about every "Great tv show" of the last 15-20 years, typically binge watching them after their original TV run.

I thought Breaking Bad was everything it was hyped up to be. The writing, the acting, the cinematography. Great characters who were developed well, plenty of drama, and the show never declined at any point.

While not as good in my opinion The Walking Dead is another great show. It has definitely had its ups and downs over an 8 year run but its another well written, well acted, and entertaining show.

Lost was great until they actually had to end the story.

I just finished up The Leftovers which lost some steam a season at a time but was great, esprcially season one.

Currently I watch MR. Robot and Better Call Saul which I love. MR. Robot might be my favorite of all. Another show I love is the little known and super underrated Carnivale which is an old HBO show.

Anyway, after years and years of wanting to dive into The Sopranos I finally have. I am 10 episodes in and I am not seeing it at all. James Gandolfini is great and so is Lorraine Bracco as his shrink. Other than that I think the acting is subpar. Edie Falcos character and Tony's two kids are annoying as hell. No drama, no intrigue, etc. Compared to The Godfather 1 and 2, Scarface, Casino, Goodfellas, Carlito's Way etc its just not very good. So am I just missing something or does it get a lot better?

I didn’t get it either.
Then again, I don’t like any of these shows. Heck, I gave up 20 mins into Stranger Things.
They just don’t do it for me.

 

[Saskatoon]

I forgot about the Wire. Great show as well. Team Avon all the way. Marlo and his crew were chumps.

I think a good villain is key to good drama. I still enjoyed the other aspects of the post Stringer Bell 'The Wire' but Marlo was not nearly as interesting. I also thought Breaking Bad took a step back when Gus Fring is killed.

Heck even in the movie world one of the bright spots of the post OT Star Wars are the few Darth Vader scenes.

 

[Terry Yake]

sopranos and the wire are the two greatest shows of all time

there wouldn't be breaking bad without the sopranos. BB was a great show but not even close to the level of the previous two i mentioned

anyways, watch more than just 10 episodes of season 1 if you really want to experience the greatness that is the sopranos. they were still working things out in season 1 so it doesn't really reflect on the series as a whole

 

[Shareefruck]

I agree that pretty much any genre can produce top tier TV but out of curiosity what comedies would you put in the top tier? For me it's probably only Arrested Development. Mind you my top tier is probably really small. I am probably forgetting something but for me would be The Wire, Arrested Development, Game of Thrones, Band of Brothers, and Sopranos (although GOT while still really entertaining seems to be slipping a bit).

My random guess is that it is easier for comedies to keep running on past their due date and get repetitive. For example I think the Simpsons still makes good TV but only the first 10 seasons or so I find to be excellent(which is still a lot). I love the first few seasons of Community but the show really struggles when it bounces around networks in the last few seasons of its life. I really enjoy Seinfeld but not sure I would rate it top tier from start to finish.

My favorites are probably something like:

1. The Dekalog
2. The Wire (S1-S4)
3. The Simpsons (S2-S4)
4. Cowboy Bebop
5. Monty Python's Flying Circus (S1)
6. Arrested Development (S1-S3)

Followed by stuff like The Twilight Zone, The Office UK, Planet Earth, Freaks and Geeks, Deadwood, Horace and Pete, Twin Peaks (up until the reveal), Louie, Deadwood, and Mad Men.

Many comedies (Spaced, Curb, Seinfeld, Blackadder, The Larry Sanders Show, It's Always Sunny, etc.) would be ahead of stuff like Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, and Westworld (which aren't very high up) for me, too.

Keep in mind that I'm fine with isolating peak stretches of a show and don't really subscribe to the idea that how good a show is is based on the average of all of its seasons.

 

[The Macho King]

Since it's come up a few times...

Can I mention how amazing David Duchovny's guest spots were on the Larry Sanders show? Holy shit I almost died laughing.

 

[Supermassive]

I'm amused that some of you took me seriously and have been arguing over it. I was originally going to say that I stopped watching The Wire after 15 minutes because it didn't grab me and I decided that it likely wasn't or would ever be my cup of tea, but that didn't seem funny and I was in a joking mood, so I called it overrated to spice things up and stir the pot, instead. I thought that I made it stupid enough that it was obvious that I wasn't serious. I guess not. I do appreciate you trying to defend me, though, Supermassive .

I was well aware that you were baiting them I’ve seen enough debates about The Wire on here, haha. Most of them were uninvited intrusions from TW fans in the Breaking Bad threads, reminding everyone which series was superior.

I did find Season 01 dull, though! lol
Like I said, I’m going to try watching it again.

I’ve shut so many shows off after 15 minutes. Usually pilots. Most shows crater and die, but some just keep rolling. Mostly cop shows, medical dramas, and lawyer shows. I bail hard on traditional American one hour dramas. But I bail on most superhero shows now too. I guess they’re not my thing. A lot of people obviously love them. They’re not all wrong, obviously.

There’s a glut of same-same shows, and then there’s amazing stuff like The Americans, shows that are almost on The Sopranos’ level.

Anyone else able to name current shows that will be remembered as top-tier?

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

The first season was okay, but I found the rest of the series largely uninteresting

The show was filled with unlikable characters who just bickered with each other

And Michael C. Hall's acting was cringe worthy

To each his own. I agree that the first couple seasons were the high point but the interpersonal family dynamics of the Fisher family through all of their trials and tribulations is what made the show tick for me. An excellent exposition and wonderful exploration thematically of life and how things affect people and those around them.

I also think Michael Hall's body of work on SFU is vastly superior to his work on Dexter. Again, different strokes I guess...