The Ricky Bobby Ryan Monster Truck all Purpose Thread.

[Quo]

Nobody really wants Ryan traded. I certainly don't anyway. Same for Methot. I brought up the hernia thing earlier just to show another aspect that management might consider when it comes to dollar amounts and term as it stands right now. A short term deal at a high dollar figure may be how it shakes out.

Watched the game and he looks freaking gorgeous out there. He keeps that up and he'll get paid.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Injury or not, I don't wanna be tied to Ryan for long-term unless he takes 6.5 on 7-8 year deal.

Give him 7-8 on 2-3 year deal. Those will be his prime years and remember the extra year we have next year. If he decides to leave or regresses tremendously, we have Stone/Puempel/Prince/Lazar/whoever hitting their prime and I'd think 1 is bound to somewhat replace him. If not and he loves it here, then re-sign him again, np.

It's ideal for both him and the Sens.

But yes, last night he looked unbelievable. Haven't seem him that involved at all.

 

[BondraTime]

Injury or not, I don't wanna be tied to Ryan for long-term unless he takes 6.5 on 7-8 year deal.

Give him 7-8 on 2-3 year deal. Those will be his prime years and remember the extra year we have next year. If he decides to leave or regresses tremendously, we have Stone/Puempel/Prince/Lazar/whoever hitting their prime and I'd think 1 is bound to somewhat replace him. If not and he loves it here, then re-sign him again, np.

It's ideal for both him and the Sens.

But yes, last night he looked unbelievable. Haven't seem him that involved at all.

Is the extra 3.5 million over 7 years that he is apparently seeking really that much of a difference?

 

[StefanW]

Injury or not, I don't wanna be tied to Ryan for long-term unless he takes 6.5 on 7-8 year deal.

Give him 7-8 on 2-3 year deal. Those will be his prime years and remember the extra year we have next year. If he decides to leave or regresses tremendously, we have Stone/Puempel/Prince/Lazar/whoever hitting their prime and I'd think 1 is bound to somewhat replace him. If not and he loves it here, then re-sign him again, np.

It's ideal for both him and the Sens.

But yes, last night he looked unbelievable. Haven't seem him that involved at all.

Not really ideal at all. In fct, this is pretty much the polar opposite of ideal. If he has prime seasons in his prime years do you honestly think his next contract will magically get smaller? You do a three year deal expecting to either pay through the nose three years from now or let him walk at that point. The only way this should be considered as an option is if Ryan refuses to sign a longer term deal.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Not really ideal at all. In fct, this is pretty much the polar opposite of ideal. If he has prime seasons in his prime years do you honestly think his next contract will magically get smaller? You do a three year deal expecting to either pay through the nose three years from now or let him walk at that point. The only way this should be considered as an option is if Ryan refuses to sign a longer term deal.

Nope, theoretically they SHOULD be his prime years. Doesn't mean they 100% will be.

If Ryan performs brilliantly then we can re-sign him with confidence knowing the player we have, even if it's through the nose cause we're still getting back a product we know will be worth it.

If we sign him long-term now then his hernia acts up or he doesn't perform the 7-8 million, we can re-sign him at cheaper rate or pursue other options(internally preferably) or whatever.

If Ryan plays brilliantly next 3-4 years and we can't afford to sign him then we still got 3-4 outstanding years and we should have a cup already under our belt. It also be very hard for him to not want to re-sign with us especially cause you know he loved his role here and probably got really attached to the city etc...

 

[Quo]

Is the extra 3.5 million over 7 years that he is apparently seeking really that much of a difference?

I'm impressed that anyone can just shrug off that amount of money for anyone not named Crosby. You have a couple hundred bucks I could borrow? I feel I deserve it.

Bobby has yet to be "the guy" anywhere. He's PPG for barely half a season here before going down with an injury that can shorten players careers. He thinks he can be "the guy." His agent for sure thinks he can be "the guy." I think he can be "the guy." I think management thinks he can be "the guy" and most everyone here believes he can be "the guy." That's all great and wonderful and very feel good but let's not fall down at the altar just yet. This is his time to show and prove. Is he really a marquee player or just a nice goal scorer, albeit a bit streaky, with a little sword of Damocles hanging over his head in the form of a career altering injury? Signs are good so far it seems. But we'll need consistency. And it will have to come against more than the Leafs B squad.

 

[StefanW]

Nope, theoretically they SHOULD be his prime years. Doesn't mean they 100% will be.

If Ryan performs brilliantly then we can re-sign him with confidence knowing the player we have, even if it's through the nose cause we're still getting back a product we know will be worth it.

If we sign him long-term now then his hernia acts up or he doesn't perform the 7-8 million, we can re-sign him at cheaper rate or pursue other options(internally preferably) or whatever.

If Ryan plays brilliantly next 3-4 years and we can't afford to sign him then we still got 3-4 outstanding years and we should have a cup already under our belt. It also be very hard for him to not want to re-sign with us especially cause you know he loved his role here and probably got really attached to the city etc...

We pay Ryan 7X7 now, which equals 49 MM.

We pay Ryan 3X8 now, which equals 24 MM and his contract is up. He performs reasonably well, the cap goes up, and he asks for a 5X8 or 9 deal adding up to 40-45 MM.

My total for the next 7 years= 49 MM.
Your total for the next 8 years= 64-69MM.

If you doubt the numbers will inflate that much for doing two contracts instead of one, and doing it over 3 years instead of right now, compare EK's contract with PK Subban and come back to me.

I'm not sure if 15-20 MM in extra cash is worth the "risk insurance" type of approach you are suggesting, simply because he has been an amazingly consistent performer for his entire career.

 

[Quo]

I'm not sure if 15-20 MM in extra cash is worth the "risk insurance" type of approach you are suggesting, simply because he has been an amazingly consistent performer for his entire career.

There might be a lot of people in Anaheim who would disagree with that assessment.

 

[Cashin]

There might be a lot of people in Anaheim who would disagree with that assessment.

Why would they? He's had 4 straight 30+ goal seasons over there and only slumped in his last season (the 2012-2013 short season).

Last year he wasn't even 100% and he managed 48pts in 70.

He is far more consistent than what we're used to with say...the likes of Milan Michalek.

 

[StefanW]

There might be a lot of people in Anaheim who would disagree with that assessment.

They would be wrong.

 

[BondraTime]

I'm impressed that anyone can just shrug off that amount of money for anyone not named Crosby. You have a couple hundred bucks I could borrow? I feel I deserve it.

Bobby has yet to be "the guy" anywhere. He's PPG for barely half a season here before going down with an injury that can shorten players careers. He thinks he can be "the guy." His agent for sure thinks he can be "the guy." I think he can be "the guy." I think management thinks he can be "the guy" and most everyone here believes he can be "the guy." That's all great and wonderful and very feel good but let's not fall down at the altar just yet. This is his time to show and prove. Is he really a marquee player or just a nice goal scorer, albeit a bit streaky, with a little sword of Damocles hanging over his head in the form of a career altering injury? Signs are good so far it seems. But we'll need consistency. And it will have to come against more than the Leafs B squad.

I'm sorry I'm not an owner of a professional sports team, where $500,000 a year for a team nowhere near the cap is not a big deal.

What would that extra $500,000 a year do for the Sens over those 7 years? Cover prospect signing bonuses?

Of course $500,000 is a giant amount of money. It shouldn't be the difference between Ryan or no Ryan, especially when it is actually a market value price.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

We pay Ryan 7X7 now, which equals 49 MM.

We pay Ryan 3X8 now, which equals 24 MM and his contract is up. He performs reasonably well, the cap goes up, and he asks for a 5X8 or 9 deal adding up to 40-45 MM.

My total for the next 7 years= 49 MM.
Your total for the next 8 years= 64-69MM.

If you doubt the numbers will inflate that much for doing two contracts instead of one, and doing it over 3 years instead of right now, compare EK's contract with PK Subban and come back to me.

I'm not sure if 15-20 MM in extra cash is worth the "risk insurance" type of approach you are suggesting, simply because he has been an amazingly consistent performer for his entire career.

Difference isn't 10-15 mil.

You have a year less added on to your totals. I've got 8 you've got 7.

56 vs 64. 8 mill difference for a sure bet? Hell ya.

We sign him 7x7 and he doesn't perform as expected or not worth the contract/injured and we more screwed than paying an extra 8 mil for a guy who's consistently one of the best wingers in the game.

I could see what you're saying though. And there is risk he could regress even after the first 4 years in both instances which makes my argument useless but then motivation+cup+added talent comes into play if he performs well in first 4 years with new contract coming up etc... A lot of things can happen in 4 years. Not many stay the same afterwards.

 

[Quo]

I'm sorry I'm not an owner of a professional sports team, where $500,000 a year for a team nowhere near the cap is not a big deal.

What would that extra $500,000 a year do for the Sens over those 7 years? Cover prospect signing bonuses?

Of course $500,000 is a giant amount of money. It shouldn't be the difference between Ryan or no Ryan, especially when it is actually a market value price.

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about $3.5M per season there for some reason not cumulative. My mistake.

I believe I have stated that it would be a fair price. I just see no harm in being prudent for now. See how things develop during the season. At some point, one or the other side will have to give.

 

[BondraTime]

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about $3.5M per season there for some reason not cumulative. My mistake.

I believe I have stated that it would be a fair price. I just see no harm in being prudent for now. See how things develop during the season. At some point, one or the other side will have to give.

No problem, sorry for the passive aggressive retort, it's been a long 2 weeks

 

[Quo]

Why would they? He's had 4 straight 30+ goal seasons over there and only slumped in his last season (the 2012-2013 short season).

Last year he wasn't even 100% and he managed 48pts in 70.

He is far more consistent than what we're used to with say...the likes of Milan Michalek.

They would be wrong.

Of course they are.

Show me. He was great, but he was living in the shadow of Getz and Perry. They didn't think he was "the guy" and they treated him according to their lights. He wanted more but there was no room. Why he blew/got pushed out of that popsicle stand in the first place.

Like I said up-thread, there's no question he scores goals, great playmaker. Important, crucial parts of an NHL player repertoire. Probably the most important. It's not everything though. And if he wants to be our highest paid player here, show me more. Show me an ability to lead all over the ice every game.

Last season just reinforces that he has not proven to be infallible. He wants more responsibility, that's good. Wonderful player, I think he can. Shouldn't get the bum's rush. But if you want to be paid like "the guy" here, show me that you can be counted on consistently. It just seems smart.

No problem, sorry for the passive aggressive retort, it's been a long 2 weeks

No worries. I was being a bit of an ass myself.

 

[StefanW]

Show me. He was great, but he was living in the shadow of Getz and Perry. They didn't think he was "the guy" and they treated him according to their lights. He wanted more but there was no room. Why he blew/got pushed out of that popsicle stand in the first place.

They could not afford to keep him, Getzlaf, and Perry. The correct decision on their part was to keep Getlaf and Perry and trade Ryan for young cheap assets, and we happened to be loaded up on young assets.

 

[Quo]

Ok, and? He was pushed off the first PP. Pushed off the first line, given a secondary role, marginalized. Not the guy. Not their guy. He should be ours. Before his injury last year he showed a lot and he looks even better now at first glance.

 

[StefanW]

Ok, and? He was pushed off the first PP. Pushed off the first line, given a secondary role, marginalized. Not the guy. Not their guy. He should be ours. Before his injury last year he showed a lot and he looks even better now at first glance.

Funny how he was pushed off the first line and marginalized in his last season there, when then signed Getzlaf and Perry to their extensions. And yet his point production was similar to most seasons, although his goal scoring pace dropped a bit. That was a temporary downtick in shooting percentage though, which happens with players who have been in the league for a few years.

 

[Cashin]

Ok, and? He was pushed off the first PP. Pushed off the first line, given a secondary role, marginalized. Not the guy. Not their guy. He should be ours. Before his injury last year he showed a lot and he looks even better now at first glance.

Of course he wasn't their "guy", they had Perry and Getz there to be the "guys". Trying to spread out the talent and create a deeper lineup doesn't mean that he was underappreciated.

We don't have Perry or Getz...we have forwards like Turris and MacArthur, who are great players but in all honesty they would seen 2nd line duty on most cup-contending teams, at least at this stage in their careers.

Ryan brings a lot of legitimacy and experience to a glorified farm team like the Ottawa Senators.

 

[StefanW]

Of course he wasn't their "guy", they had Perry and Getz there to be the "guys". Trying to spread out the talent and create a deeper lineup doesn't mean that he was underappreciated.

We don't have Perry or Getz...we have forwards like Turris and MacArthur, who are great players but in all honesty they would seen 2nd line duty on most cup-contending teams, at least at this stage in their careers.

Ryan brings a lot of legitimacy and experience to a glorified farm team like the Ottawa Senators.

I agree with all of this except the bolded part. The forward are fine and most of them are trending upwards. Our goaltenders are only a year removed from being among the very best in the league. I will give you the fact that most of our D are 5/6 guys on decent teams, but mixed in there is Karlsson who should be in the Norris conversation this year.

What Ryan brings is an elite scoring touch, which will help tremendously as our young team goes through its growing pains.

 

[Quo]

I gather that he was always a streaky player despite his overall production. Trade rumours, marginalization on the PP, hot and cold streaks, going back to 2010...according to those who've watched him during that time. I haven't so much. So I depend on the guidance of others.

They loved him anyway but it certainly seems he was odd man out for a reason and more than just budget constraints or seeking to shake up or spread out the offense.

And Bobby sure as heck felt under-appreciated by the end of his tenure there given that he was always rumored to be the "expendable" one.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Of course he wasn't their "guy", they had Perry and Getz there to be the "guys". Trying to spread out the talent and create a deeper lineup doesn't mean that he was underappreciated.

We don't have Perry or Getz...we have forwards like Turris and MacArthur, who are great players but in all honesty they would seen 2nd line duty on most cup-contending teams, at least at this stage in their careers.

Ryan brings a lot of legitimacy and experience to a glorified farm team like the Ottawa Senators.

Glorified farm team would indicate that the Senators develop great players, then lose them because they don't pay them. That's not Ottawa.

None of the players the Sens have developed and lost have been due to "we can't pay them".

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

To be honest, it's a huge risk to sign any player for a contract that is 5+ years long (unless you have a 21-year-old Crosby coming off his ELC).

Bobby is 27 right now, and with his mediocre skating is likely to start to decline in about 3-6 years. If you put a lot of weight on the hernia injury, you might think of a decline starting closer to 3 years. Either way, it's a decline from an average of 60 points per season...not a decline from a PPG pace. That's a big difference.

It's really difficult to find a middle ground for him that is fair to both team and player. Anything over 7.5 per season definitely feels too high.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Glorified farm team would indicate that the Senators develop great players, then lose them because they don't pay them. That's not Ottawa.

None of the players the Sens have developed and lost have been due to "we can't pay them".

Except immediately after the introduction of the salary cap.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Except immediately after the introduction of the salary cap.

Honestly though, what "stars" have we lost due to salary?

Hossa? Maybe, but we signed Heatley to a 7 year deal after that. Nonsense that followed nor withstanding.

Chara? Arguably, that was because of us being against the cap and because Muckler the moron decided that our money was better spent on Redden.

After that...who? Alfredsson has been discussed ad nauseum but we lost a 41 year old Alfie, not the one in his prime.

And Spezza...he wanted out. But if he wanted to stay, the team would have re-signed him.

Who else have the Senators let walk that you could consider a franchise-type player?