Commander Clueless
Hiya, hiya. Pleased to meetcha.
- Sep 10, 2008
- 15,522
- 3,421
The lower the scoring, the more impact a goal has on the game, and the more exciting each goal is. 
OT: The quality of NHL hockey and its rapid deterioration
- Thread starter Swervin81
- Start date
I personally don't need more goals scored in order to be entertained. To me its what happens in between goals thats most entertaing, as long as its consistent and doesn't just come in flashes. In today's NHL there isn't much happening between whistles though because the gritty nature of the sport is being sucked out. The cross-check that knocked Komarov down in front of the net and lead to a penalty last night is an example of that--this was common-place before the 04/05 lock-out.
When I watch a baseball game, for example, I'm more entertained by a strong defensive play than a run that is scored while an outfielder is fielding the ball. Same idea in hockey, I don't need goals to be entertained. I need big hits, grittiness, and highlight-reel saves to be entertained. You're not seeing any of that because players are being given more space to work with (as a result of the gritty nature being sucked out) and coaches realized that the best method to combat goals against in such a league is by essentially creating a shot-blocking perimeter in front of the goalie. Bah!
When I watch a baseball game, for example, I'm more entertained by a strong defensive play than a run that is scored while an outfielder is fielding the ball. Same idea in hockey, I don't need goals to be entertained. I need big hits, grittiness, and highlight-reel saves to be entertained. You're not seeing any of that because players are being given more space to work with (as a result of the gritty nature being sucked out) and coaches realized that the best method to combat goals against in such a league is by essentially creating a shot-blocking perimeter in front of the goalie. Bah!
With the amount of obstruction and interference creeping back into the game, it takes the flow out of the game. Nothing grinds my gears more then seeing a forward dump the puck in and a defense man holds the forward up so his partner can get the puck. That to me is interference and should be called every time.
BraveCanadian
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2010
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- 3,804
Rants Mulliniks
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2008
- 23,071
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The last Cup champ I enjoyed was the Lightning. Not so much that they were free wheeling but they had a team motto: Safe is Death. What I liked was even if they were up by 3, they still believed in attacking rather than closing into a shell for the rest of the game. It's like 2 World Cups (soccer) ago. I just loved watching the Germans. Pretty much relentless in their attack. Compare that to Spain. Yawn!
I miss 80's hockey a lot. So much fun. Back then I wouldn't miss a single game of the playoffs even though I rarely had a horse in the race. It was that entertaining.
Nylanderthal
Registered User
- Jun 9, 2010
- 7,896
- 6,238
Just go to 4 on 4. If you want you can make power plays so that the pp team can ice an extra skater if you're not a fan of too many 4 on 3 PP opportunities. The boys are too big and fast now, the time to Widener lengthen the ice was 25 years ago when all the new buildings were being designed.
RayNibbs
Registered User
I enjoy watching hockey due to the recognition of the level of hockey IQ some of the guys out there have. It is SEVERELY lacking on the leafs when it comes to positioning, knowing where the puck is going to be. Its painful seeing so many of our players rush at a player at full speed in both zones, just to be taken out of the play by a simple pass, spin off in the wrong direction and be even more out of the play... i mean come on.. have some foresight. I enjoy watching this aspect and recognizing which players have that ability to simply know where a play is going to end up.
But the lack of it on the leafs is what drives me nuts. This is both a coaching and player personnel problem.
Watching some other teams is much more entertaining because you can recognize the IQ some of them have, the system they're trying to employ, you can see their brain working both offensively and defensively. For the leafs, half the time I have no clue whats going on, looks like a pond game.
But the lack of it on the leafs is what drives me nuts. This is both a coaching and player personnel problem.
Watching some other teams is much more entertaining because you can recognize the IQ some of them have, the system they're trying to employ, you can see their brain working both offensively and defensively. For the leafs, half the time I have no clue whats going on, looks like a pond game.
barilko05
NHL FAN
- Jan 28, 2011
- 1,127
- 862
I know, it sucks.. I mean, goodluck scoring on this giant.
This picture points out all the biggest problem that powers that be need to address.
1) Shoulder pads are too big. This is true for all players, too, but goalies especially. The pads need to still protect, but they can all be substantially smaller and still provide max protection.
2) Goal pads need to end just above the knee, not at the crotch. If you want to protect your thighs from hard shots, wear more internal padding. Oh, that restricts your mobility? All the better, I say.
3) That jersey is way too big. Like about 5 sizes too big. If you can't fit an 2XL sweater over your equipment, then you're either over 7 feet tall, or over 300 lbs. Either way, you're in the wrong sport.
4) Gloves and blocker? Nuff said.
spidergoalie
Registered User
As far as the goalie equipment....
It is overall smaller than it has been in many many years.
Pads are 11" wide. Now technically it is true that back in the 70's and earlier pads were supposed to be 10" wide, goalies were allowed to wack the sides of the pads twice before a measurement, and they were only measured if a team called for it, which was rare because they knew their own goalies pads were too wide. it was not at all uncommon for goalie pads to be in excess of 12" wide even back then.
In the late 80's and 90's of course things started getting much bigger. According to one manufacturer, Mike Richter's pads were as wide as 15" at the boot break!!!
Pads were constructed differently. They were stuffed and sagged and widened over time. Modern pads are basically sheets of HD foam covered with synthetic leather. They don't sag or get wider over time, and they weight much less.
The only part of pads that got bigger was a couple years back when for some reason the NHL thought too many short goalies were getting away with pads that were too tall. The flaw was that a) there were very few "short" goalies left and b) even with taller pads, they covered less net than their bigger peers (and their pads weren't any bigger than their peers either).
So they came up with a very convoluted formula for proportional pad sizes which actually resulted in almost every goalie in the league being allowed to wear taller pads.
The issue is mostly the top part of the pads called the thighrise. Some goalies argue they need to be big for "protection". This is mostly BS because modern pads rotate on the leg as the goalie drops into a butterfly, and the top portion of the pads does not protect the thighs, but maybe some of the knees and primarily....the opening between the legs. Personally I'd be happy to see these reduced with a simple formula....all pads can only be say 8" above the knee.
Gloves are the smallest they've been since the 70's too.
Pants and chest protectors are still pretty big, and there are some monstrous knee pads being used.
What is really bigger though, are goalies themselves.
Another massive factor compared to yesteryear is the amount of goalie coaching right from the get go, so goalies are so much more technically sound now, that they are almost interchangeable.
What I would challenge though, is the notion that in order for the quality of hockey to be higher, there must be more scoring. I think this is nonsense. (granted I am a goalie)
To me what makes a great hockey game is speed and flow, big hits, big saves, lots of scoring opportunities.
A zillion goals however is no guarantee at all it will be entertaining, quality hockey. In fact it can reduce the impact of a goal because you know there will be plenty more coming.
I think one of the killers of the game is the increase in power plays, because they actually interrupt the flow of a game, and most of the time are not very exciting to watch.
It also increases all the conspiracy theories and increases the role officials have in deciding the outcome of games. I prefer more allowing the players to police themselves and decide the outcome as well.
I don't like the shoot out at all, and I would like it gone (along with the trapezoid) asap.
I think it might be interesting if they came up with a way of rewarding goals scored in the standings in a meaningful way too, to combat the trend of coaching to not lose, rather than coaching to win. (i.e. coaching to prevent goals more than generate goals)
One other thing...even though I already praised speed in hockey, I actually think the fact players are faster skaters now, has made it more difficult for play making, because players simply don't have the time and space they did when they were not moving so fast. Yes players are much bigger now, but the speed also effectively shrinks the rink.
All that said, I think the NHL marketing strategy of regularly announcing that the game sucks and needs to be changed (largely I feel to appease a sought after demographic that currently doesn't enjoy or understand the game, in the interests of generating money more than actually making the game better)
Lastly if anyone feels the game has gone down hill you might want to watch some old footage and you may find you change your opinion.
It is overall smaller than it has been in many many years.
Pads are 11" wide. Now technically it is true that back in the 70's and earlier pads were supposed to be 10" wide, goalies were allowed to wack the sides of the pads twice before a measurement, and they were only measured if a team called for it, which was rare because they knew their own goalies pads were too wide. it was not at all uncommon for goalie pads to be in excess of 12" wide even back then.
In the late 80's and 90's of course things started getting much bigger. According to one manufacturer, Mike Richter's pads were as wide as 15" at the boot break!!!
Pads were constructed differently. They were stuffed and sagged and widened over time. Modern pads are basically sheets of HD foam covered with synthetic leather. They don't sag or get wider over time, and they weight much less.
The only part of pads that got bigger was a couple years back when for some reason the NHL thought too many short goalies were getting away with pads that were too tall. The flaw was that a) there were very few "short" goalies left and b) even with taller pads, they covered less net than their bigger peers (and their pads weren't any bigger than their peers either).
So they came up with a very convoluted formula for proportional pad sizes which actually resulted in almost every goalie in the league being allowed to wear taller pads.
The issue is mostly the top part of the pads called the thighrise. Some goalies argue they need to be big for "protection". This is mostly BS because modern pads rotate on the leg as the goalie drops into a butterfly, and the top portion of the pads does not protect the thighs, but maybe some of the knees and primarily....the opening between the legs. Personally I'd be happy to see these reduced with a simple formula....all pads can only be say 8" above the knee.
Gloves are the smallest they've been since the 70's too.
Pants and chest protectors are still pretty big, and there are some monstrous knee pads being used.
What is really bigger though, are goalies themselves.
Another massive factor compared to yesteryear is the amount of goalie coaching right from the get go, so goalies are so much more technically sound now, that they are almost interchangeable.
What I would challenge though, is the notion that in order for the quality of hockey to be higher, there must be more scoring. I think this is nonsense. (granted I am a goalie)
To me what makes a great hockey game is speed and flow, big hits, big saves, lots of scoring opportunities.
A zillion goals however is no guarantee at all it will be entertaining, quality hockey. In fact it can reduce the impact of a goal because you know there will be plenty more coming.
I think one of the killers of the game is the increase in power plays, because they actually interrupt the flow of a game, and most of the time are not very exciting to watch.
It also increases all the conspiracy theories and increases the role officials have in deciding the outcome of games. I prefer more allowing the players to police themselves and decide the outcome as well.
I don't like the shoot out at all, and I would like it gone (along with the trapezoid) asap.
I think it might be interesting if they came up with a way of rewarding goals scored in the standings in a meaningful way too, to combat the trend of coaching to not lose, rather than coaching to win. (i.e. coaching to prevent goals more than generate goals)
One other thing...even though I already praised speed in hockey, I actually think the fact players are faster skaters now, has made it more difficult for play making, because players simply don't have the time and space they did when they were not moving so fast. Yes players are much bigger now, but the speed also effectively shrinks the rink.
All that said, I think the NHL marketing strategy of regularly announcing that the game sucks and needs to be changed (largely I feel to appease a sought after demographic that currently doesn't enjoy or understand the game, in the interests of generating money more than actually making the game better)
Lastly if anyone feels the game has gone down hill you might want to watch some old footage and you may find you change your opinion.
Wendigo
Registered User
- Nov 27, 2013
- 237
- 0
Having re-watched the '87 Canada Cup not too far back, I'll stick with my opinion that hockey was overall more entertaining back-when (cf. Sochi)
Possessing the puck provides more 'game flow' and 'offensive nature' than just dumping and chasing, or failing to string together some passes, or doing whatever it is that the Leafs do.
Is there anything really wrong the quality of NHL hockey? I'm a Leafs' fan so I really only watch Leafs' games. I'm seldom bothered by the style of hockey the opposition play. I remember a decade or more ago New Jersey, St. Louis, Minnesota, even some very good Detroit teams playing some deadly dull hockey. I hated to watch games against those teams.
Since first expansion quality has decreased. It's only natural, with more teams you have to fill rosters and it's easier to make the team when there are more teams to try out for. The original 6 was when the NHL was at it's best, those teams deserved the cups they won and they were the best players in the world. Winning the cup is great now, but the original 6 era was the best because the league wasn't watered down like it is today.
MaskedSonja
Registered User
Lurker giving my .05
I am not sure if the quality has decreased, but I think our current technology has an influence. In less technological times, you had just observation and scouting of teams in person as a way of planning strategy. Video tape brought a new element into things where teams could tape games and watch for some inspiration and ideas, but even then in person scouting of teams was a big part of things.
Now teams have technology to break down every single play, every shift, every puck movement, every goalie style-where its specialized now that everything that can be known about goaltending, defense tendencies, offensive strategies, they're all just a mouseclick away-not even mentioning the whole statistics angle that has come into play. Teams know each other seven ways to sunday, and it's all about who can get that slight edge/take advantage of a slight miscue from the other team.
Teams now just know each other so well, and the systems that are in place, also combined now with the angle of the "3 point games" as it were, and the game is I think played differently than 2 decades ago.
Better or worse, I couldn't tell you, but I think it's just way the game is played.
I am not sure if the quality has decreased, but I think our current technology has an influence. In less technological times, you had just observation and scouting of teams in person as a way of planning strategy. Video tape brought a new element into things where teams could tape games and watch for some inspiration and ideas, but even then in person scouting of teams was a big part of things.
Now teams have technology to break down every single play, every shift, every puck movement, every goalie style-where its specialized now that everything that can be known about goaltending, defense tendencies, offensive strategies, they're all just a mouseclick away-not even mentioning the whole statistics angle that has come into play. Teams know each other seven ways to sunday, and it's all about who can get that slight edge/take advantage of a slight miscue from the other team.
Teams now just know each other so well, and the systems that are in place, also combined now with the angle of the "3 point games" as it were, and the game is I think played differently than 2 decades ago.
Better or worse, I couldn't tell you, but I think it's just way the game is played.
thewave
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2011
- 40,583
- 10,573
I promise it hasn't.
Since 2001 Hockey Canada has had 17% more registered players under 18. 59% more female players now registered during the same time.
Just based on population and technology I assure you as well there was a large increase from 1991 - 2001
That's not even including the American gains. The talent pool is healthy.
I blame both the NHL and NHLPA for this. Quite frankly, with expansion the league has become highly diluted. Half of these players shouldn't even be in the pros. Cut 6-8 teams and the game will become competitive again. Also, cut the schedule to 62 games, and get rid of the stupid hash marks behind the net.
The NHL more importantly needs to remember that this is entertainment, we don't need this game over coached.
The NHL more importantly needs to remember that this is entertainment, we don't need this game over coached.
thewave
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2011
- 40,583
- 10,573
It's not diluted. There are so many more rinks and kids playing now vs then. Maybe since the original 6 but that's about it. Think about access to organized hockey worldwide. The worst teams stank then just like they do now.
The game is actually faster and more skilled now. New technology etc.
never understood this line of thinking, the game is less diluted today, the difference between the best and the worst is a lot smaller today then in the 80's when Gretz was putting up 200+ points. taking teams out of the NHL only creates superior defense and goaltending, as your taking out the worst 36-48 Dmen and worst 12-16 goalie's. there is a reason why right after the big expansion era lead to the highest scoring period in league history
Swervin81
Leaf fan | YYZ -> SEA
Right now, in a game between Detroit and Minnesota, about 5 min left in the 2nd and the shots are 11-9... holy ****, this clutching and grabbing crap is getting worse and worse.
tokyoite
I changed my name from "nipponjin" last summer.
3 points for regulation win
2 poins for OT win
0 point for loss
The league should get rid of loser point.
It's a garbage.
2 poins for OT win
0 point for loss
The league should get rid of loser point.
It's a garbage.
Wafflewhipper
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2014
- 14,114
- 5,694
League Scoring is trending down.
The entire decade of hockey in the 90's had a higher goals per game average than what we have seen this season. The year they in ceased goal scoring with a plan to stop clutch and grab hockey was the effect of more goals scored on the power play because of more power play time called by the refs.
So scoring is down, hitting is down and goalies with puck handling skills is dumbed down, fighting is frowned on, the center line is gone and a 155 foot pass is leagal. The game has changed for the worse in every aspect is what has happened its looking like.
http://www.hockey-reference.com/ click on seasons and then league averages in there.
The entire decade of hockey in the 90's had a higher goals per game average than what we have seen this season. The year they in ceased goal scoring with a plan to stop clutch and grab hockey was the effect of more goals scored on the power play because of more power play time called by the refs.
So scoring is down, hitting is down and goalies with puck handling skills is dumbed down, fighting is frowned on, the center line is gone and a 155 foot pass is leagal. The game has changed for the worse in every aspect is what has happened its looking like.
http://www.hockey-reference.com/ click on seasons and then league averages in there.
Rants Mulliniks
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2008
- 23,071
- 6,136
Funny you would say that because it is one of my beefs about today's hockey, so few consecutive passes and completely disjointed play. Cycling along the boards doesn't tend to fix the problem.
Isn't this "puck possession" thing the analytiacs are obsessing over directly related to the amount of cycling along the boards? Will this lead to another coaching trend ruining the future entertainment value of NHL hockey?
