OT: The quality of NHL hockey and its rapid deterioration

[Inconceivable]

Imo it's these constant rule changes that are hurting the game. Which other pro sports do this? Should the nba put the hoops higher because today's 7 footers make dunking look too easy? Keep the game the way it is, and allow players to evolve into it over multiple generations so that it can really be mastered.

I feel like an old fart

 

[Bullseye]

There are no secrets anymore. Coaches, GM's., scouts are developed by one team then land a job running another.

Coaching around the NHL has gotten more even as well (except in Toronto). Drafting has gotten more dependable(if you don't throw your picks away).

AHL teams are run better than ever. The Russians, Swedes, Swiss all have a top-notch competitive leagues to develop and draw players from. The Olympics has helped many nations develop young players.

Yadda, Yadda, Yadda...

And the Leafs still suck.

It also sucks not seeing any goons out there. The personality they brought to the game was fun to watch. It is so sterile now but get CMD here and all is well.

 

[-DeMo-]

Imo it's these constant rule changes that are hurting the game. Which other pro sports do this? Should the nba put the hoops higher because today's 7 footers make dunking look too easy? Keep the game the way it is, and allow players to evolve into it over multiple generations so that it can really be mastered.

I feel like an old fart

there are constant rule changes every year in the NFL, and lately in the MLB.

Too many teams, there isn't enough good talent to go around.

you have it backwards, less teams mean you get rid of the weakest defensemen and goalie's, thus making Defenses even stronger, there's a reason why right after the major expansion in the 70's and 80's was when scoring was at an all time high. taking teams away decreases the gap between the best and the worst even more.

 

[Erdinger]

I feel like an old fart

Wait till you actually are one

 

[TheCLAM]

People need to realize that parity in the league right now is the best it's ever been. The talent margin between the teams is so close and by all means its anyone's game. I don't believe for a second the NHL is "deteriorating" by any stretch of the imagination. We are just living in an era where there are many high-quality players.

The issue in my opinion is that their are more teams that are really good than terribly bad. The NHL knows the extent of high quality players and this is the corner-stone to an expansionary period. We need to disperse the talent level amongst teams, and look to move into 32-34 team format.

 

[Inconceivable]

Wait till you actually are one

I'll be one of those guys that constantly reminisce on the good old days when players didn't need white pucks and no offsides to score

 

[Teeder9]

I'll be one of those guys that constantly reminisce on the good old days when players didn't need white pucks and no offsides to score

Maybe they'll bring back the Foxtrax and really give you some stories to tell

 

[burpsalot]

Less sucks more intensity. There used to be way more clutching and grabbing years ago. You had to play with intensity to get where you wanted to go. Kessel would never see the offensive zone in the old leagues, he would have gone to the bench whining that it was too hard. If you wanted to get to the front of the net you would be in a war & if you wanted to clear the guy out it was a war. Also, why does everyone think a big hit is an excuse to go after a player, if it's a good clean hit, it's a good clean hit. Suck it up.

Changes for better hockey

1. Lets make goalies fare game outside of the crease. It will add to my enjoyment of the game.

2. Give players that turn their back to the player when approaching the boards 5 min penalties for being idiots.

 

[Pookie]

This thread is needed and the OP is bang on from my perspective.

I find that the gimmick point, losing in OT or a shoot out, has created a mentality where teams don't want to lose a point. They go into every game thinking let's not get beat in regulation. Points are too valuable when 3 are available every game.

The net result is like soccer where teams play for the draw. Then we have a skills contest for the extra one.

Leads to boring, conservative hockey that is usually settled by special teams.

 

[Swarez]

It's getting harder to watch games of teams my team is not in.... I'm igniting fact it's tough to watch leafs right now but anyway.

I used to watch Crosby, Ovi, the Sedins all the time - now because of systems elite players matter less and less. Look at Montreal - on top of conference and all they do is clog up the middle and try to grind - there is no reason to watch there games. subban used to be fun to watch but now he is just another guy most nights.

It's happening with kids too, if you look at high level hockey for kids 12/13/14 they want size so those guys can control puck possession. When I was coming up 15 years ago at that age they let you actually play. I have a cousin who is trying to make the OHL and says he if he doesn't he will quit hockey just because how robotic it has become.

Flip to football or basketball - they let stars shine and showcase there skill set.

 

[RoyalGremlin]

It all starts with the kids, every player that makes the NHL is a thoroughbred player. There's too much parity and one idea I think would be awesome in today's global economy would be to expand the league world wide.

Merge the NHL with the KHL, SHL, and other leagues, set up an international travel schedule and allow cross continental trades. Everyone can keep track of highlights online.

It would be interesting if we could split the league into 2 conferences with the NA conference with 32 teams following the current playoff format (2 more teams to even out the divisions) and 32 of the top teams from the European division. Trippy idea, just throwin that out there.

Also to the point, with more teams, the talent level will be more spread out and the league a little bit weaker in the short term, there would be more scoring.

 

[Ratboy]

there are constant rule changes every year in the NFL, and lately in the MLB.



you have it backwards, less teams mean you get rid of the weakest defensemen and goalie's, thus making Defenses even stronger, there's a reason why right after the major expansion in the 70's and 80's was when scoring was at an all time high. taking teams away decreases the gap between the best and the worst even more.

Interesting, I hadn't heard of it put in that way before.

The way I look at it is that with the elimination of a certain number of teams , maybe 100 players (fringe NHLers mostly ) will go, leaving guys with more skill per capita and making the game more exciting.

But you could be right.

In general the NHL seems to mess with the rules more than any other pro league in NA it seems. Many of these rule changes can be good, eliminating two line offsides for example.

But things like the shootout, or trapezoidal limitations on where goalies can or cant play the puck seem kind of pointless to me.

I like it when goalies go far out of the net, it increases the chances of a screw up and the puck being in the back of the net. Then again this is just my opinion, and I haven't analyzed stats to see if it indeed had an effect on goal totals.

Another weak one is the automatic delay of game penalty for shooting the puck out of the rink (many times on accident). It's just a few inches on a clearing that will make the difference between a great clear, or a bad penalty.

Regarding the goal pads, they've obviously come a long way. My father played pro in Europe back in the 70s and said that during the season he'd have bruises all over his body. I'm sure that's something modern day goaltenders would like to avoid.

 

[8816 others]

Bring back fighting and eliminate the instigator. Let the stars play

 

[DopeyFish]

The rules can be tweaked over and over again, but the real issue is goalies are bigger faster stronger with lighter better equipment and the dimensions of the net are the same.

Make offsides for forward two line passes only (center and offensive blue line) and watch those goals go way up

Way less (probably 90%+ reduction) offsides... less time purging a zone... less stacking at blue line (leading to more odd man rushes for and against), higher % scoring opps... effective elimination of the trap...

 

[LaPlante94]

All sports are becoming pathetic. NHL, and the NBA are very hard to watch these days now because of how soft the leagues are becoming. Fighting is basically gone from the game and hitting will slowly disappear too. Back when I played hockey, they made you take an off ice class and an on ice class on how to hit and how to take a hit when I first entered peewee. I don't think they do that anymore after seeing how a lot of players skate around the ice like nothing can happen to them. Apparently turning your back to a guy skating full speed at you is the smart thing to do, go face 1st into the boards and then go get stitched up and return to the game while the guy who lays the hit gets suspended for a few. Don Cherry and Brian Burke said things like this would happen and people called them crazy old men because these advanced statistics people try and say how the game should be played, when they have never laced up a pair of skates a day in their lives. I think it was Burke that said once you take out the fighters the rats will start to come out, looks like he was right. Didn't Cherry say recently that a lot of the stars have been getting injured since fightings been down?

 

[Macoun4life]

I personally hate that teams get a point for losing! Just "going for the point" breeds conservatism. I think that if they rewarded teams 2 points for a win and 0 for any loss would breed a mentality that you actually have to try to outscore your opponent to have success.

This is professional sports! You don't need to give out consolation points or participation points to make teams who lose in overtime or shootout feel better.

 

[Joey Hoser]

The quality of hockey these days is the highest its ever been. Whether that makes it more or less entertaining is the question, and one you might not want to answer.

 

[Nithoniniel]

The rules can be tweaked over and over again, but the real issue is goalies are bigger faster stronger with lighter better equipment and the dimensions of the net are the same.

This is the answer. The problem is advanced stick technology requires advanced goaltender technology. Simple fix is to go back to wooden sticks but that won't happen.

That would be the answer if the problem was goal totals, which it isn't in my opinion. It's the lack of scoring chances, and that relates completely to the role of skill in today's hockey. I feel like skill, both defensively and offensively, is stymied by tactics employed by teams and player that is pretty much against the idea of the rules.

Now I'm a fan of defensive hockey, I love watching defensively skilled and smart players do their thing. That is another reason why I dislike the development, because defense today is less and less about actually being skilled and smart. So many teams and players out there get away with not being skilled and smart defensively by employing tactics that should not be allowed, such as all the interference going on.

Teams like to set up a bulwark at the blueline, forcing the dump-in. Then they'll crisscross in front of chasing forwards in a manner that would be interference ten years ago so they can't get the puck. By far the most effective ways to defend, taking away zone entries in both ways. If those interferences are called, teams need to use more depth to defend the dump-in, opening up for carry-ins. Result would be much more controlled zone entries, one step towards making it a more skilled game.

The goaltenders rely on skill less these days as well, but that's a lot due to size and you can't really do anything about that. Now I don't really care if they make a lot of saves, I wouldn't care if goal totals increase at all.

What I do want to see is more scoring chances, a more important role in today's game for skilled plays in either end. To achieve this I think the league has to take a hard look at what being a good, skilled player means and then shape the game to fit these players more and fit unskilled players, who make up for not having these qualities in other ways, less.

If this was a league that had few scoring chances because players had become so good at reading the play, picking off passes, win 1-on-1 battles and steal pucks etc, I wouldn't say a word. But I feel like there are few chances because players get away with a lot of interference, holding and other things that's not about them being defensively skilled or smart.

 

[Mess]

The shootout is the gimmicky part of the game today that deteriorates and degrades it from its pure form.

When you turn a team game into an individual skills competition simply to attract more hockey fans in non traditional hockey markets it weaken the sport.

However I think the NHL understands this and they are coming up with more ways to decide games without it and currently discussing 3-3 after 4-4 in OT.

 

[Commander Clueless]

That's what happens when you involve nerds with sports

So you're saying it's purposeful sabotage of real sports to promote eSports?

 

[ACC1224]

Imo it's these constant rule changes that are hurting the game. Which other pro sports do this? Should the nba put the hoops higher because today's 7 footers make dunking look too easy? Keep the game the way it is, and allow players to evolve into it over multiple generations so that it can really be mastered.

I feel like an old fart

What rule change was brought in that compares to raising the Hoop in Basketball?

IMO, two things have changed the game and made it worse on ice.

1) Salary Cap
2) Loser point

 

[Commander Clueless]

The shootout is the gimmicky part of the game today that deteriorates and degrades it from its pure form.

When you turn a team game into an individual skills competition simply to attract more hockey fans in non traditional hockey markets it weaken the sport.

However I think the NHL understands this and they are coming up with more ways to decide games without it and currently discussing 3-3 after 4-4 in OT.

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I actually like the shootout. You want to talk boring? Ties are boring. Watching an awesome game for 60 minutes and having it end in a tie is so anti-climactic.

Now, more overtime is far superior to the shootout in my mind, but lets not act like playing 3-3 doesn't "degrade" from the game either. 3-3 is a completely different game.

Still, I'd love to watch it.


I still don't fully understand the hatred for shootouts in the regular season.

 

[Mess]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I actually like the shootout. You want to talk boring? Ties are boring. Watching an awesome game for 60 minutes and having it end in a tie is so anti-climactic.

Now, more overtime is far superior to the shootout in my mind, but lets not act like playing 3-3 doesn't "degrade" from the game either. 3-3 is a completely different game.

Still, I'd love to watch it.


I still don't fully understand the hatred for shootouts in the regular season.

However 3-3 can happen in a game as can 4-4. Those are not new rules as offsetting penalties can cause that to occur.

Shootouts don't decide playoff games so its only determines who gets to compete in them.. That itself speaks to the inconsistency of that situation. Why not simply use rock-paper-scissors to decide tie games or any other gimmicky tie breaking concept?.

The shootout in hockey would be the same as having a slam dunk competition decide NBA tied games to determine who makes the playoffs based on the regulation standings.

Ideally the SO results shouldn't earn points in the standings only done at the end of tied games where everybody is awarded 1 point each and then at the end of the year the SO results used as a tiebreaker if teams have the same amount of points.

They should also change the scoring system of 3 points for a regulation win, and 2 points for an OT/SO win with a singe loser point. (although I don't like the loser point either). Either you win the game or you lose it, if your goal is to remove ties.

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[highslot]

the quality of the players have never been higher

-scoring is down due to a smaller gap between players
-higher quality goaltending
-teams focusing on defense since it's been proven to have more success than an offensive system

this season has been boring as a Leaf fan due to our collapse being much earlier than usual

Hockey is still very entertaining depending on the teams playing , there's more to the NHL than just watching our collection of heartless players .

basically this, but if you want to increase the scoring, decrease the goalie padding to early 90 levels and also expand the rink size to olympic levels.

 

[Commander Clueless]

However 3-3 can happen in a game as can 4-4. Those are not new rules as offsetting penalties can cause that to occur.

Technically breakaways can happen to, and happen more often than a 3on3 situation in a real game. Point is, both are restrictions imposed to shorten the game.

Personally, I'd be more in favour of shortening the schedule and letting them play full overtime all the time, but I know the league would never go for that since it would be at the expense of a tremendous amount of revenue.

Shootouts don't decide playoff games so its only determines who gets to compete in them.. That itself speaks to the inconsistency of that situation. Why not simply use rock-paper-scissors to decide tie games or any other gimmicky tie breaking concept?.

Well, mostly because rock-paper-scissors isn't nearly as fun to watch.

The shootout in hockey would be the same as having a slam dunk competition decide NBA tied games to determine who makes the playoffs based on the regulation standings.

I don't see the comparison, really. Is there a defender in a slam dunk competition? (Honest question - I don't watch basketball)

Ideally the SO results shouldn't earn points in the standings only done at the end of tied games where everybody is awarded 1 point each and then at the end of the year the SO results used as a tiebreaker if teams have the same amount of points.

They should also change the scoring system of 3 points for a regulation win, and 2 points for an OT/SO win with a singe loser point. (although I don't like the loser point either). Either you win the game or you lose it, if your goal is to remove ties.

I'm fine with either of these things. Improving the impact of the shootout in relation to the standings is a good thing. I'm not saying it's perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I like it a lot more than ties.

I just see a lot of the opinion that the "hardcore" hockey fans hate it, and they believe it's for the "casual" fans. I guess I'm a filthy casual then.