Prospect Info: The Prospect Thread

[BfantZ]

Him and hintz seem to be building some chemistry . They have certainly looked better than elie and Dickinson down there the last few games .

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

Him and hintz seem to be building some chemistry . They have certainly looked better than elie and Dickinson down there the last few games .

I really wonder if we have dropped the ball on Dickinson, who is starting to look like yet another victim of poor development who will flourish elsewhere a la Niskanen and Oleksiak.

 

[BfantZ]

I really wonder if we have dropped the ball on Dickinson, who is starting to look like yet another victim of poor development who will flourish elsewhere a la Niskanen and Oleksiak.

I think he still has a lot of potential but he isn’t gonna be able prove much on the 4th Line . Hopefully whoever we hire can get the best out of him .

 

[eartotheground]

I think he still has a lot of potential but he isn’t gonna be able prove much on the 4th Line . Hopefully whoever we hire can get the best out of him .

If you can’t prove yourself on the 4th line, where are you going to prove yourself? It’s a 200 foot game, don’t give me some line about he needs PP time/offensive zone starts. Or something about needing good line mates. Good players produce regardless of their ice time or linemates. Good players make those around them better.
I don’t understand why so often excuses galore are made for prospects, but coaches, GNs, and vets are crucified for every mistake or failure to produce. Why the double standard?
(Latter part of that rant not directed at you, Bfantz)

 

[BfantZ]

If you can’t prove yourself on the 4th line, where are you going to prove yourself? It’s a 200 foot game, don’t give me some line about he needs PP time/offensive zone starts. Or something about needing good line mates. Good players produce regardless of their ice time or linemates. Good players make those around them better.
I don’t understand why so often excuses galore are made for prospects, but coaches, GNs, and vets are crucified for every mistake or failure to produce. Why the double standard?
(Latter part of that rant not directed at you, Bfantz)

Your right for the most part but Dickinson isn’t developed enough to put up points with minimal ice time in the nhl . Physical , hardworking grinders like elie , Ritchie , smith fit that role better because they play a cycle game rather than a transition game . Dickinson should have been in the ahl playing top six rather than 4th Line nhl . That’s a tough spot for a sniper/playmaker to develop .

 

[Mr Misty]

If you can’t prove yourself on the 4th line, where are you going to prove yourself? It’s a 200 foot game, don’t give me some line about he needs PP time/offensive zone starts. Or something about needing good line mates. Good players produce regardless of their ice time or linemates. Good players make those around them better.
I don’t understand why so often excuses galore are made for prospects, but coaches, GNs, and vets are crucified for every mistake or failure to produce. Why the double standard?
(Latter part of that rant not directed at you, Bfantz)

Come on. Players have different styles and being on a 4th line with dump and chase players does not suit a player who is looking to possess the puck and make plays. Connor McDavid can push Drake Cagguila up and down the ice and win trophies; expecting a rookie to do that is ridiculous.

 

[Kcb12345]

If you can’t prove yourself on the 4th line, where are you going to prove yourself? It’s a 200 foot game, don’t give me some line about he needs PP time/offensive zone starts. Or something about needing good line mates. Good players produce regardless of their ice time or linemates. Good players make those around them better.
I don’t understand why so often excuses galore are made for prospects, but coaches, GNs, and vets are crucified for every mistake or failure to produce. Why the double standard?
(Latter part of that rant not directed at you, Bfantz)

Good players reduce regardless of their linemates, sure...good players like Benn, Seguin, Tavares, Crosby, McDavid, Malkin etc. Dickinson will never be on the same level as those guys obviously, and he certainly isn't the type of player to 100% carry his line offensively. You're thinking of elite players. That isn't his potential. His potential is a top 6 guy, and playing sometimes less than 8 minutes a night on one of the worst 4th lines in the league is not going to get him there. If it were up to me, I'd start players out at where I want them to be. Put them in a position where they can succeed and see what happens. Stars are probably one of the worst teams in the league at this. The vast majority of NHL players couldn't produce even near as much with under 8 minutes of ice time a night with Elie and Ritchie as your linemates and being forced to play a heavily defensive game and never getting any PP time.

Only player that we have put into a position to succeed is Brett Ritchie, and now we know for sure he is nothing more than a 4th liner that can hit and is slow. Why not give Dickinson the same chance?

 

[Benneguin]

Good players reduce regardless of their linemates, sure...good players like Benn, Seguin, Tavares, Crosby, McDavid, Malkin etc. Dickinson will never be on the same level as those guys obviously, and he certainly isn't the type of player to 100% carry his line offensively. You're thinking of elite players. That isn't his potential. His potential is a top 6 guy, and playing sometimes less than 8 minutes a night on one of the worst 4th lines in the league is not going to get him there. If it were up to me, I'd start players out at where I want them to be. Put them in a position where they can succeed and see what happens. Stars are probably one of the worst teams in the league at this. The vast majority of NHL players couldn't produce even near as much with under 8 minutes of ice time a night with Elie and Ritchie as your linemates and being forced to play a heavily defensive game and never getting any PP time.

Only player that we have put into a position to succeed is Brett Ritchie, and now we know for sure he is nothing more than a 4th liner that can hit and is slow. Why not give Dickinson the same chance?

That and the fact that the Stars don’t have a lot of top six caliber forwards on the roster so it’s not like he’s being blocked by a bunch of guys you can’t move down the lineup.

 

[Satan]

Jason Dickinson has some of the worst metrics for players with over 200 minutes of 5v5 time this year.

He's not going to become anything special. There's a reason why he never got a chance to earn his time, he doesn't do anything when he's on the ice.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

There are times when I wonder about the thought process, wondering what some hockey experts see that is beyond the obvious eye test of the average fan.

Shore and maybe Dickenson are examples of this. Maybe Ritchie. They seem to hold those guys in higher confidence even when current play doesn't warrant it. Whereas Hintz seems to have more potential, but who knows. What is it that they see that makes them think certain players have what it takes, but are in slumps, vs. those who just don't have it to get to the next level?

 

[Kcb12345]

There are times when I wonder about the thought process, wondering what some hockey experts see that is beyond the obvious eye test of the average fan.

Shore and maybe Dickenson are examples of this. Maybe Ritchie. They seem to hold those guys in higher confidence even when current play doesn't warrant it. Whereas Hintz seems to have more potential, but who knows. What is it that they see that makes them think certain players have what it takes, but are in slumps, vs. those who just don't have it to get to the next level?

Hitchcock just liked Ritchie cause he will hit people and occasionally win a puck battle. Big net front presence. Useless player though he was clearly wrong about him

 

[Satan]

There are times when I wonder about the thought process, wondering what some hockey experts see that is beyond the obvious eye test of the average fan.

Shore and maybe Dickenson are examples of this. Maybe Ritchie. They seem to hold those guys in higher confidence even when current play doesn't warrant it. Whereas Hintz seems to have more potential, but who knows. What is it that they see that makes them think certain players have what it takes, but are in slumps, vs. those who just don't have it to get to the next level?

Hintz has more potential than Ritchie when he was 21? Strongly disagree.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Hintz has more potential than Ritchie when he was 21? Strongly disagree.

I meant compared to JD. I think Ritchie has potential still. Is 16 goals last year or 7 goals this year the real Brett Ritchie, or somewhere in between? Next year will determine if he was in a Hitchcock slump, or on the downward trend.

 

[Satan]

What you see is what you get with Brett Ritchie, his ceiling is a 30 point bottom 6 player. He needs to play in an environment that places an emphasis on shot attempts, otherwise you'll see a lot more of these < 20 point seasons.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

I disagree, but time will tell. We have to hope he bounces back and improves, because we are still woefully weak on the right wing. Rads, Nuke, Ritchie, Pitlick is about the best we can hope for without another UFA acquisition. Maybe DG surprises but that is about it.

Potential for 27, maybe 20, 16 and 16 goals from the right wing, probably less.

 

[brighteststars]

I meant compared to JD. I think Ritchie has potential still. Is 16 goals last year or 7 goals this year the real Brett Ritchie, or somewhere in between? Next year will determine if he was in a Hitchcock slump, or on the downward trend.

LOL Betty White has absolutely no potential.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

Whoever the coach is next year I hope he gives playing time to the players that earn it the most and put them in position to succeed. JD still has potential. If he looks good on an offensive line play him there. If he can't cut it then scratch him.

If Hintz/Gury out perform other players then play them in the bigs and waive the least valuable forward.

 

[Kcb12345]

I meant compared to JD. I think Ritchie has potential still. Is 16 goals last year or 7 goals this year the real Brett Ritchie, or somewhere in between? Next year will determine if he was in a Hitchcock slump, or on the downward trend.

Yeah, no. Ritchie is nothing more than a 4th liner. Has a good shot, but takes him a solid 5-10 seconds to let it go so nothing ever happens. He was not in a Hitchcock slump considering he played with Benn and Seguin and the top PP unit pretty often. Pretty sure he scored all but 1 of his goals with them this year. Any other player would be more effective in that roll honestly not sure why Hitch picked Ritchie

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

LOL Betty White has absolutely no potential.

One reason I disagree with Ritchie being a washout is that every year, this board seems to pick a few players playing at somewhat less than superstar status to completely revile. Last year, it was Steven Johns who turned it around this year, and was arguably our third or even second best D, coming close to may Lindell numbers while playing with lesser partners than JK, i.e., this board tends to over react a lot.

Ritchie has his flaws, and may never be more than a line 3 to line 2 tweener, but is at worst, a 3-4 liner, with some ability to scale up the lineup in a pinch, and those type of players aren't worth jettisoning and spending assets to bring in another partly flawed player. Either way, the coach is going to have to work around the strengths of its players, finding the best spots.

I also believe that every guy on the team who wasn't supremely talented on offense stepped back under Hitch, trying to play D first, and afraid Hitch would bench them if they didn't. Helped the D, hurt a few forwards IMHO, including Ritchie and Shore.

Agree on his shot speed, clearly recalling has last two goals this year, where he spun and shot immediately. Hope he holds on to that thought.

 

[WhatWhat]

I meant compared to JD. I think Ritchie has potential still. Is 16 goals last year or 7 goals this year the real Brett Ritchie, or somewhere in between? Next year will determine if he was in a Hitchcock slump, or on the downward trend.

Ritchie has a hard shot and that is it. He plays heads down and is one of the lowest IQ players on the team. Dude take about 3 full seconds to load up a shot and 80% of the time never even considered there might be a pass. He is a cycle guy who should get 8 minutes a night on the 4th line if he gets any time at all

 

[brighteststars]

One reason I disagree with Ritchie being a washout is that every year, this board seems to pick a few players playing at somewhat less than superstar status to completely revile. Last year, it was Steven Johns who turned it around this year, and was arguably our third or even second best D, coming close to may Lindell numbers while playing with lesser partners than JK, i.e., this board tends to over react a lot.

Ritchie has his flaws, and may never be more than a line 3 to line 2 tweener, but is at worst, a 3-4 liner, with some ability to scale up the lineup in a pinch, and those type of players aren't worth jettisoning and spending assets to bring in another partly flawed player. Either way, the coach is going to have to work around the strengths of its players, finding the best spots.

I also believe that every guy on the team who wasn't supremely talented on offense stepped back under Hitch, trying to play D first, and afraid Hitch would bench them if they didn't. Helped the D, hurt a few forwards IMHO, including Ritchie and Shore.

Agree on his shot speed, clearly recalling has last two goals this year, where he spun and shot immediately. Hope he holds on to that thought.

I've had my issues with Betty White since 16-17. I have no idea how he managed to hit double digit goals (probably getting set up by Seguin a lot helps) but he has absolutely no business being anywhere near a top 6 role. He is rigor mortis on skates, his shot release is beer league level, and he can't make a pass or play to save his life. It was excruciating seeing him on the #1 PP unit when he doesn't add anything. He's simply just a big body. We need to get rid of him so no other coach will be tempted to deploy him in ridiculous ways. In comparison to Johns, people were hard on him but the eye test clearly shows his upside. Johns can do everything you'd want in a d-man. He skates, passes, and shoots all at a good level. With Ritchie, I don't think he really does anything at a good level other than hitting. However, his slow motion skating makes it impossible for him to recover after delivering said hit.

 

[jballa95]

From what I've seen so far in the Kingston-Hamilton series:

The play-by-play announcer for Kingston is unbearable.
Oh and ... Robertson has very high hockey IQ, makes good little plays consistently. Reads off his opponents, and pounces when he has the opportunity to steal the puck and create an opportunity. I have a similar experience watching him as I do with Heiskanen, in the way that you'll end up saying or thinking "nice play" repeatedly while watching him. Even though, this series hasn't been great for Kingston, I'm still very impressed by him.

Caamano is sort of a jack of all trades type of player. He skates, hits, shoots, agitates, etc all at a good level. He's not flashy nor going to overwhelm anyone with skill, but he definitely creates offense. He drives a lot of the offense on Hamilton, even when he does not get an assist, he plays a major factor in contributing towards the goal. Definitely an engine for Hamilton, and the announcers for Hamilton have detailed his importance to the team's offense numerous times, so it's not just because I'm focusing on him. He also kills penalties effectively, plus as mentioned before he agitates. He's been a thorn in the side for Kingston, especially since almost every game he crashes into Kingston's goalie.

I think Caamano has a better chance of becoming an NHL player, I don't think it will take long for him to be in Dallas either. But I also think Robertson has a much higher ceiling than Caamano. I'm curious to see how the strength and speed of the NHL players will have on Robertson, although I think his Hockey IQ will definitely help him possibly sustain himself in the NHL. After watching him quite closely these past few games he's impressed me much more than I had expected. The OHL Coaches Poll mentioned earlier definitely depicted him well. But he is still a very rough skater, he's not necessarily totally slow, he just has a very rough stride, making him less agile in his body movements. Which raises questions on how he would fair against quick and agile NHL defenders. On the contrary, Linus Nyman is definitely one of the quickest skaters in the series, he zips up and down the rink. I don't think he'll become a top 6 scoring forward in the NHL, but I think he could become a solid bottom to middle 6 speedy forward. I would not mind Dallas taking him 3rd round or later.

Anyways, this is my two cents on what I have personally seen so far, so take it as it is.

 

[BfantZ]

From what I've seen so far in the Kingston-Hamilton series:

The play-by-play announcer for Kingston is unbearable.
Oh and ... Robertson has very high hockey IQ, makes good little plays consistently. Reads off his opponents, and pounces when he has the opportunity to steal the puck and create an opportunity. I have a similar experience watching him as I do with Heiskanen, in the way that you'll end up saying or thinking "nice play" repeatedly while watching him. Even though, this series hasn't been great for Kingston, I'm still very impressed by him.

Caamano is sort of a jack of all trades type of player. He skates, hits, shoots, agitates, etc all at a good level. He's not flashy nor going to overwhelm anyone with skill, but he definitely creates offense. He drives a lot of the offense on Hamilton, even when he does not get an assist, he plays a major factor in contributing towards the goal. Definitely an engine for Hamilton, and the announcers for Hamilton have detailed his importance to the team's offense numerous times, so it's not just because I'm focusing on him. He also kills penalties effectively, plus as mentioned before he agitates. He's been a thorn in the side for Kingston, especially since almost every game he crashes into Kingston's goalie.

I think Caamano has a better chance of becoming an NHL player, I don't think it will take long for him to be in Dallas either. But I also think Robertson has a much higher ceiling than Caamano. I'm curious to see how the strength and speed of the NHL players will have on Robertson, although I think his Hockey IQ will definitely help him possibly sustain himself in the NHL. After watching him quite closely these past few games he's impressed me much more than I had expected. The OHL Coaches Poll mentioned earlier definitely depicted him well. But he is still a very rough skater, he's not necessarily totally slow, he just has a very rough stride, making him less agile in his body movements. Which raises questions on how he would fair against quick and agile NHL defenders. On the contrary, Linus Nyman is definitely one of the quickest skaters in the series, he zips up and down the rink. I don't think he'll become a top 6 scoring forward in the NHL, but I think he could become a solid bottom to middle 6 speedy forward. I would not mind Dallas taking him 3rd round or later.

Anyways, this is my two cents on what I have personally seen so far, so take it as it is.

Caamano is awesome. The way he plays he’s a lock to be an nhl player . He’s a grinder but has good hands and hockey sense . Wouldn’t mind him as a Roussel replacement next year .

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Always hard to evaluate players based on their junior scouting reports. His draft reports had him as a low first round grade. The report above basically confirms his draft analysis, which was all the tools, but not a great skater.

Hope he turns out like Jamie Benn. More likely he is going to be a tick slow for NHL duty. Time will tell. If he and Otter pan out, it could be a stellar draft for Nill (and possibly one enjoyed more by his successor)

 

[PelleLindbergh]

Gurianov with the lone goal in the 3rd to help the Stars finish off the Ontario Reign in game 4!!