The Pre-Season Thread (Young Stars Tournament and Training Camp)

[Biggest Canuck Fan]

He's still not a strong skater. Not sure where others are getting that. He works his butt off though, so he often covers a good amount of ground.

Edit: referencing Labate

I have been at 3 games...he definitely is a strong skater and plays bigger than his 190 lb frame.

 

[banme*]

That was me

Woah would have never guessed.

 

[Pip]

I have been at 3 games...he definitely is a strong skater and plays bigger than his 190 lb frame.

I thought he looked a little gassed on the second half of the back to back which is to be expected. I thought in the other games he was all over the ice.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

I have been at 3 games...he definitely is a strong skater and plays bigger than his 190 lb frame.

Different definitions maybe? I would call Bo Horvat a strong skater. From this preseason Labate is definitely not in the same category.

 

[Biggest Canuck Fan]

Different definitions maybe? I would call Bo Horvat a strong skater. From this preseason Labate is definitely not in the same category.

Well he hits well, skates very strong and fast, is hard to knock down... He got the best compliment from Edmonton radio when they were lumping calling him a head hunter when he moved them around.

 

[Biggest Canuck Fan]

I thought he looked a little gassed on the second half of the back to back which is to be expected. I thought in the other games he was all over the ice.

agree. He should be in Utica being a top 9 player there working on his game, his conditioning.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Well he hits well, skates very strong and fast, is hard to knock down... He got the best compliment from Edmonton radio when they were lumping calling him a head hunter when he moved them around.

He's strong on his skates with a good top speed, but he has a lumbering stride and quicksands a bit when first accelerating. Not a bad skater, but lots of room for improvement.

 

[Biggest Canuck Fan]

He's strong on his skates with a good top speed, but he has a lumbering stride and quicksands a bit when first accelerating. Not a bad skater, but lots of room for improvement.

Yep, why Utica will be great for him.

 

[iceburg]

"He has shown that his trajectory is pointing to a hard to play against, defensively solid, (I deleted the 3rd line winger because this style is attached to all of his players regardless of the positional hierarchy) with speed and some offense.

Congratulations to Travis Green in multiple superlatives. This kid's progress directly traces back to the Travis Green schooled hockey team.

All of his players are groomed to this style of play. Some do it better than others, some thrive, some learn it and turn it on when necessary, and some just can't or won't do it. I'll leave to you which players fall into the above categories, but I'll tell you that the last group doesn't get to stay in Utica and the group before them has learned that only doing it when you feel it's necessary gets them a night or two in the press box.

However, while requiring this playing style from all of his players, he does not leash their offensive creativity as long as they hold up their defensive responsibilities. He gets them to believe in each other and play for each other not for themselves as individuals. You will see this in how hard they work to cover for a teammate when his creative offensive move goes south. This commitment to team is also seen in how they come to each others aid no matter how small, lacking in physicality, or non combative they may be. I'm sure you have seen the photo of the grossly bloodied face and shield of LaBate. He wasn't the only one to take on the beaten warrior look. I am not a fan of fighting and Travis isn't that big on it either as is well noted by the total number of fighting majors the Comets get in a season. However, we all know sometimes you have to stand your ground and they do it as one and immediately. It's not an enforcer who goes out 3 shifts later to seek revenge.

This is why his teams are always tough to play against. Why he can get players to perform above expectations a la the 9+ PTOs he used last season to get his team to the playoffs when injuries here compounded with Vancouver call-ups left his team in a disastrous situation.

Joe LaBate was nothing like you have recently witnessed when he arrived in Utica. However, he was as you people have described in this preseason when last year ended. The surprise here is how he is being described as such a strong skater, because that was his weakness last season. Hard to believe that much improvement occurred in a single summer. Maybe he was competing vs the other team's AHL players like himself?

Any way it shakes out, good for Joe and if he stays in Vancouver or arrives there eventually, he'll be another ex-Comet you will likely hear sing the praises of his AHL coach, Green.

To those who don't say he isn't good with the kids, you have no idea.

Thanks for the background from last year. Interesting that his skating wasn't a strength. It certainly hasn't hurt him this year and he is very quick on the puck. The rush where he fed Ruutu for the short handed goal a few nights ago shows he can pull away when needed. Maybe an off season of training? I don't know.

Labate is developing the skill set (sounds like mainly under the tutelage of Green) that is absolutely needed in the NHL these days. Gone are the goons, the one dimensional players that play 4 minutes a night. They are being replaced by 10-12 minute guys who can actually play the game and are still willing to stick up for teammates when necessary.

 

[Bad Goalie]

He's still not a strong skater. Not sure where others are getting that. He works his butt off though, so he often covers a good amount of ground.

Edit: referencing Labate

That sounds more like it. That's the Joe I'm used to. It's also why he needs to spend more time in the AHL.

 

[Jack Tripper]

catching up on reading multiple threads after a winter away and i can't say i agree with posters claiming the discourse has regressed or gotten nastier than previous years on this board

there's always been hyperbole and sarcasm used to make arguments, even when this team was winning presidents trophies a few years back...not defending it, but it's certainly nothing new and doesn't make this sub-board distinct from any of the other team message boards on this site

all i see happening is a frustrating disconnect between local booster media/canucks management/certain posters making claims that this will be an improved club, and national publications/certain posters making claims that this club could indeed finish dead last in the nhl...it's bound to create negative discussions, especially before an actual regular season game has been played

 

[rune74]

catching up on reading multiple threads after a winter away and i can't say i agree with posters claiming the discourse has regressed or gotten nastier than previous years on this board

there's always been hyperbole and sarcasm used to make arguments, even when this team was winning presidents trophies a few years back...not defending it, but it's certainly nothing new and doesn't make this sub-board distinct from any of the other team message boards on this site

all i see happening is a frustrating disconnect between local booster media/canucks management/certain posters making claims that this will be an improved club, and national publications/certain posters making claims that this club could indeed finish dead last in the nhl...it's bound to create negative discussions, especially before an actual regular season game has been played

I find that some posters have a lot more leeway to say things that before they wouldn't have. It has gotten nastier and really a chore to read, as I have said in the past and been told I don't have to post here. So you may not think it has, but I still think it has.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I find that some posters have a lot more leeway to say things that before they wouldn't have. It has gotten nastier and really a chore to read, as I have said in the past and been told I don't have to post here. So you may not think it has, but I still think it has.

I find it's a chore to read people talking about thinking with their gut, people saying "we don't know what this player is" in reference to an NHL veteran who's played over 300 games, and people basically ignoring every single statistical fact that's been presented in an argument and countering with "well just because."

But I cope with it.

 

[Shareefruck]

I find it's a chore to read people talking about thinking with their gut, people saying "we don't know what this player is" in reference to an NHL veteran who's played over 300 games, and people basically ignoring every single statistical fact that's been presented in an argument and countering with "well just because."

But I cope with it.

Yeah, the trend I've noticed and have been frustrated with is how faith-based reasoning seems to have become a thing on these boards, seemingly as a response in order to cope with the bleak situation. Wouldn't have been tolerated back when there were legitimately things to reasonably feel positive about. I guess people need that positivity. The feeling I get from it is almost like if religion has infiltrated the message board to pick it up at its lowest point or something.

 

[Hit the post]

I find it's a chore to read people talking about thinking with their gut, people saying "we don't know what this player is" in reference to an NHL veteran who's played over 300 games, and people basically ignoring every single statistical fact that's been presented in an argument and countering with "well just because."

But I cope with it.

You just don't understand "intangibles"....

 

[rune74]

I find it's a chore to read people talking about thinking with their gut, people saying "we don't know what this player is" in reference to an NHL veteran who's played over 300 games, and people basically ignoring every single statistical fact that's been presented in an argument and countering with "well just because."

But I cope with it.

You make up narratives that aren't there, but carry on. You will find some reason that you weren't wrong in the end like you always do.

 

[rune74]

Yeah, the trend I've noticed and have been frustrated with is how faith-based reasoning seems to have become a thing on these boards, seemingly as a response in order to cope with the bleak situation. Wouldn't have been tolerated back when there were legitimately things to reasonably feel positive about. I guess people need that positivity. The feeling I get from it is almost like if religion has infiltrated the message board to pick it up at its lowest point or something.

We always gave players the benefit of at least playing a bit before you get the Y2k Effect, problem is that now it is quick to jump to that before the player even plays a game for us.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

We always gave players the benefit of at least playing a bit before you get the Y2k Effect, problem is that now it is quick to jump to that before the player even plays a game for us.

From my perspective, it's possible to try to look at each move on its merits.
Overall, I think we're in for a tough stretch for a few years and I think we have a mediocre management group. Having said that, I don't think every move sucks just because it's a move by this management group. They've made some poor moves and some good moves. I try to separate out my thoughts on the management group and my thoughts on each move and each player.
And, as you said, I tend to give players the benefit of a doubt when they are first traded here. At least until they've played a few games.
To take Gubrandson, for example, he may have played 300 games but he's still only 24 years old. Thinking that he might be able to improve to a solid number 4 type guy doesn't seem to be a huge stretch.

 

[rune74]

From my perspective, it's possible to try to look at each move on its merits.
Overall, I think we're in for a tough stretch for a few years and I think we have a mediocre management group. Having said that, I don't think every move sucks just because it's a move by this management group. They've made some poor moves and some good moves. I try to separate out my thoughts on the management group and my thoughts on each move.
And, as you said, I tend to give players the benefit of a doubt when they are first traded here. At least until they've played a few games.

This is my view as well, well said.

 

[Nomobo]

Yeah, the trend I've noticed and have been frustrated with is how faith-based reasoning seems to have become a thing on these boards, seemingly as a response in order to cope with the bleak situation. Wouldn't have been tolerated back when there were legitimately things to reasonably feel positive about. I guess people need that positivity. The feeling I get from it is almost like if religion has infiltrated the message board to pick it up at its lowest point or something.

I think that's silly. As passionate as most fans are, hockey is first and foremost entertainment not some
life defining philosophy as you insinuate. What do you mean, it wouldn't have been tolerated? What's wrong with being positive? do you prefer being negative?

 

[Hit the post]

he may have played 300 games but he's still only 24 years old. Thinking that he might be able to improve to a solid number 4 type guy doesn't seem to be a huge stretch.

To be fair, wasn't that one of the arguments used for Sbisa?

For the record, it's obvious to me that Guds >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sbisa (unlike Guds, Sbisa has NEVER shown that ability for a considerable stretch of games)

 

[WetcoastOrca]

To be fair, wasn't that one of the arguments used for Sbisa?

For the record, it's obvious to me that Guds >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sbisa (unlike Guds, Sbisa has NEVER shown that ability for a considerable stretch of games)

Yes, it was one of the arguments for Sbisa. In fact I think I made the same argument. Ouch!
Statistically speaking, the odds of Gudbranson improving to be a top three type guy aren't that high. That's why I'm hoping for a number 4 guy. Like you said, he's well above Sbisa at this stage of his development.

 

[rune74]

To be fair, wasn't that one of the arguments used for Sbisa?

For the record, it's obvious to me that Guds >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sbisa (unlike Guds, Sbisa has NEVER shown that ability for a considerable stretch of games)

Ok, with all you just said there how is that relevant?

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

I think that's silly. As passionate as most fans are, hockey is first and foremost entertainment not some
life defining philosophy as you insinuate. What do you mean, it wouldn't have been tolerated? What's wrong with being positive? do you prefer being negative?

He means people making claims without any factual substance for the sake of countering the overarching negative outlook of the team.

I would disagree though and say that has always existed on these boards. There have always been fans that would cheer on the team no matter what they do. The big difference is that they blend into the overall tone when things are good, but stand out like a sore thumb when things are as bad as they are currently.

 

[y2kcanucks]

You make up narratives that aren't there, but carry on. You will find some reason that you weren't wrong in the end like you always do.

Not true at all, but par for the course.