OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Congrats to KC, but Kelce was the real winner winning Swift

[Peat]

Guyton is Raw, in senior bowl drills he wasn't all that impressive. Not bad but...

He likely doesn't start until mid way through the season. I'd prefer someone more polished. If it's JPJ at center he's ready day one!

Given Tomlin's fondness for slow playing rookies, I'm not really sure how polished the guy is matters all that much to whether they start. They'll probably start their C because they backed themselves into a corner and even then I wouldn't be that surprised to see Herbig start.

 

[Ryder71]

Given Tomlin's fondness for slow playing rookies, I'm not really sure how polished the guy is matters all that much to whether they start. They'll probably start their C because they backed themselves into a corner and even then I wouldn't be that surprised to see Herbig start.

Well, they started Green to open the season a few years back and JPJ is by far the better player.

 

[Night Shift]

Given Tomlin's fondness for slow playing rookies, I'm not really sure how polished the guy is matters all that much to whether they start. They'll probably start their C because they backed themselves into a corner and even then I wouldn't be that surprised to see Herbig start.

Which it would be dumb to draft JPJ then, high grade Rookie OL need to start from day 1 to develop properly. Unless it becomes obvious he's hurting the team then ok, they sit him for a couple weeks to watch and learn. But OL are not like QB's. it doesn't help them to sit over a year or to switch their position to something they never played before and force it to work. (Like a T switching to G and he never played G in his career)

 

[JTG]

Well, they started Green to open the season a few years back and JPJ is by far the better player.

The hype around JPJ isn't that loud, but the hype around him are real dudes who have been around this game a long time. I think that dude could very realistically come in next year and be the best center for the next 12-15 years and I don't think Frazier is that far behind him honestly. I could very well see either of these C's being right there with Humphrey next year regardless of who they play for.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I just fundamentally don't view a player asking for a trade to reflect poorly on a player, unless it's a chronic issue like PLD in the NHL. With Pickett, I think he just wanted a new start after how rocky his time with the Steelers had gone and how he was replaced by Wilson. I just fundamentally don't see any fault with Pickett for feeling that way.

Now if he was being pouty and a bad teammate at the end of last year, that is something that reflects poorly on him. I just don't view the trade request to be that.

But either way, the Steelers are better off now than they were 5 days ago with their QB room. I just think it's unreasonable for some of the dogpiling on Pickett I've seen from fans on social media. Like the only thing the dude did wrong was not be a good QB.

Not my take, but can't disagree with much of it...

**********************

I don’t blame Pickett for wanting to leave.

He was lied to. Moreover, Mitch was lied to and Mason was lied to. He saw it with his own eyes the last 2 seasons, and those guys all talked. No way he could trust Tomlin. That ship sailed. Like last year, there was not going to be a QB competition. Wilson has the backing of Heyward, MInkah, and I’m sure others. Mediocre Mike was not going to upset that apple cart.

The entire QB room last year was bad, but was that Pickett’s fault? The “Steeler Way” has given us Mike Tomlin and his garbage coaching hires. And last year’s QB room. Pickett was never set up for success. None of the QBs were. You can bet that Mitch and Mason are also both thrilled to get away from the dysfunctional Mike Tomlin Steelers.

You criticize patience, and yet you ignore the last 13 years of Mike Tomlin? You know the guy he lost to in the Steelers last SB was fired by Green Bay, right? And McCarthy has a better post season record than Jibbs (11-11, including 10-8 in GB). Not good enough for GB.

But hey. NHALS. Patience. It’s the Steelers way.

Also, players like Heyward openly lobbied for Russell Wilson. That’s nice. The defensive captain pushes for another WPMOY winner to come in and be the QB? Who the f*** is Cam Heyward and what has HE ever won to lobby for a change at QB? Cam and his 1-7 playoff record. Kenny Pickett wasn’t here for all that losing. But hey, it’s all about Jibbs and his coaching genius. He’s a victim of circumstances (HE didn't want Mitch! He didn’t want Pickett either! That was Colbert’s final middle finger to the Steelers! Art2 made that draft pick! It was Rooney’s Aunt Millie! Anyone but Tomlin). And when a guy praises his HC, says he will never play for anyone else, and gets excited when they achieve NHALS, you must know that Jibbs listens to him. They both have the same goals - Participation trophies and NHALS. Maybe now Heyward will get to wear his WPMOY patch on his jersey! Good for you, Cam. Another individual award. No ring, but hey, Cam has NHALS also. The mark of sustained mediocrity. They should all get to wear NHALS patches on their jerseys, because that’s all this organization cares about now.

In case you haven’t noticed, the Browns have had more playoff success lately than the Steelers. The Steelers are going nowhere as long as Jibbs is HC. He’s never developed a QB. He doesn’t know how. And without a QB, well... we know where it ends.

Tomlin is 0-5-1 in his last 6 games against rookie head coaches (Not too impressive for a supposed HOF coach.)

before the 2023 playoffs, 26 head coaches had won a playoff game since Tomlin last won a playoff game.

No playoff wins in 7 seasons,

3-9 in his last 12 playoff games.

But trust in Jibbs. Patience.

I’m sure it will all turn around this season.

 

[JTG]

Well, they started Green to open the season a few years back and JPJ is by far the better player.

Why is that? Because they backed themselves into a corner at C...again.

 

[Night Shift]

Not my take, but can't disagree with much of it...

**********************

I don’t blame Pickett for wanting to leave.

He was lied to. Moreover, Mitch was lied to and Mason was lied to. He saw it with his own eyes the last 2 seasons, and those guys all talked. No way he could trust Tomlin. That ship sailed. Like last year, there was not going to be a QB competition. Wilson has the backing of Heyward, MInkah, and I’m sure others. Mediocre Mike was not going to upset that apple cart.

The entire QB room last year was bad, but was that Pickett’s fault? The “Steeler Way” has given us Mike Tomlin and his garbage coaching hires. And last year’s QB room. Pickett was never set up for success. None of the QBs were. You can bet that Mitch and Mason are also both thrilled to get away from the dysfunctional Mike Tomlin Steelers.

You criticize patience, and yet you ignore the last 13 years of Mike Tomlin? You know the guy he lost to in the Steelers last SB was fired by Green Bay, right? And McCarthy has a better post season record than Jibbs (11-11, including 10-8 in GB). Not good enough for GB.

But hey. NHALS. Patience. It’s the Steelers way.

Also, players like Heyward openly lobbied for Russell Wilson. That’s nice. The defensive captain pushes for another WPMOY winner to come in and be the QB? Who the f*** is Cam Heyward and what has HE ever won to lobby for a change at QB? Cam and his 1-7 playoff record. Kenny Pickett wasn’t here for all that losing. But hey, it’s all about Jibbs and his coaching genius. He’s a victim of circumstances (HE didn't want Mitch! He didn’t want Pickett either! That was Colbert’s final middle finger to the Steelers! Art2 made that draft pick! It was Rooney’s Aunt Millie! Anyone but Tomlin). And when a guy praises his HC, says he will never play for anyone else, and gets excited when they achieve NHALS, you must know that Jibbs listens to him. They both have the same goals - Participation trophies and NHALS. Maybe now Heyward will get to wear his WPMOY patch on his jersey! Good for you, Cam. Another individual award. No ring, but hey, Cam has NHALS also. The mark of sustained mediocrity. They should all get to wear NHALS patches on their jerseys, because that’s all this organization cares about now.

In case you haven’t noticed, the Browns have had more playoff success lately than the Steelers. The Steelers are going nowhere as long as Jibbs is HC. He’s never developed a QB. He doesn’t know how. And without a QB, well... we know where it ends.

Tomlin is 0-5-1 in his last 6 games against rookie head coaches (Not too impressive for a supposed HOF coach.)

before the 2023 playoffs, 26 head coaches had won a playoff game since Tomlin last won a playoff game.

No playoff wins in 7 seasons,

3-9 in his last 12 playoff games.

But trust in Jibbs. Patience.

I’m sure it will all turn around this season.

Whoever that is, 100 percent agree with all of it, I couldn't have said it better.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I agree with most of it but I need to understand what Jibbs is. Seems like some kind of racial taunt......

 

[Peat]

Well, they started Green to open the season a few years back and JPJ is by far the better player.

I'm not saying they never do it but they're far more often slow than quick with rookies. It's intentional. Green was a rarity in terms of being a rookie slated to start from the moment they drafted him, which was also a huge mistake. The fact they did something unusual and stupid doesn't mean we should bet the house on them to do the unusual again, even if it's a lot less stupid looking.

 

[MrBrightside]

Also, players like Heyward openly lobbied for Russell Wilson. That’s nice. The defensive captain pushes for another WPMOY winner to come in and be the QB? Who the f*** is Cam Heyward and what has HE ever won to lobby for a change at QB? Cam and his 1-7 playoff record.

I stopped reading after this passage. I mean, you can criticize the handling of Pickett and take whatever racially-tinged shots at Tomlin you want (I know they weren't your words), but the idea that Pickett was owed anything or that Cam Heyward is the problem and not the shit QB play ruined any credibility the rest of that screed had.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I keep saying that the offensive issues could be laid primarily at Tomlin's feet. His hires were putting his broad ideas into place. His ideas being the offense supporting the defense by taking next to no chances, limiting turnovers, and hoping to win low scoring defensive games.

I would be very upset if I was on the Steelers' offense. Your contract is based on production and with that plan your production will suck no matter how talented you actually are.

So, I get the frustration being strong enough to reach public discourse.

The really interesting test of all this will be next year with a new OC, new quarterbacks who have had success and production. If the plan remains limited mostly within five yards of the line of scrimmage, then we all have our proof of who the moron is.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

And on the Tyler Guyton pick. The Steelers did not meet with him at the Senior Bowl or the Combine. The only person to attend his pro day was a scouting assistant.

So.......unless they bring him in for a formal interview, I call bupkis.

I believe they would pick Mims over Guyton in that scenario, if they are taking a OT at 20 with the players available in Jeremiah's mock.

 

[Peat]

I do have to say that I have a bit of a problem with Heyward criticising Johnson for playing GM in public when he's pushing for the team to hire a guy himself. Beyond hypocrisy never being pleasant, it's also the sort of stuff that divides locker rooms. I doubt anyone in the Steelers' locker room is nursing any grudges for a double standard going against DJ or Pickett but it's still symptomatic of the sort of approach that leads to divas and guys tuning things out.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Idk, I feel like my opinions on the QBs and the QB moves this year are pretty middle of the road without being too crazy one way or the other.

I really like their QB room with Wilson and Fields, it's by far the best they could have done this off-season. Wilson gives them a league average QB now that should make this team a respectable playoff team (instead of one that barely makes it and gets sodomized in the playoffs), and I think Fields has huge upside if this team can develop him properly. That's an obviously major if, though.

At the same time, I think Pickett ends up at minimum a good backup, and the Eagles coaching staff may be able to unlock more potential that could actually get him to solid starter levels. There was no chance that Pickett was going to hit that upside here and it was best for all parties to just find a new opportunity.

I don't mind the leadership of the team advocating for bringing in a guy, but like @Peat said, I do think there is some hypocrisy there if Heyward did criticize other players for doing the same in the past.

 

[JTG]

I do have to say that I have a bit of a problem with Heyward criticising Johnson for playing GM in public when he's pushing for the team to hire a guy himself. Beyond hypocrisy never being pleasant, it's also the sort of stuff that divides locker rooms. I doubt anyone in the Steelers' locker room is nursing any grudges for a double standard going against DJ or Pickett but it's still symptomatic of the sort of approach that leads to divas and guys tuning things out.

Kind of falls in line with the culture to be honest. I think Kenny under performed but I think the communication was very poor with a young QB. You cannot say one thing then do another. It was poorly handled. Cam is a great player, but under his, TJ, Minkah's leadership, they haven't done shit. They need guys who have some rallying power...like JPJ's dad had.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

And on the Tyler Guyton pick. The Steelers did not meet with him at the Senior Bowl or the Combine. The only person to attend his pro day was a scouting assistant.

So.......unless they bring him in for a formal interview, I call bupkis.

I believe they would pick Mims over Guyton in that scenario, if they are taking a OT at 20 with the players available in Jeremiah's mock.

I agree and I know you get it but I'm going to use this post as a jumping off point for a reminder about mock drafts.

Maybe, when Kiper and the lot started these things, the point was to have a content area expert try and predict how the draft would go. But anymore, with the number of folks doing mocks and the number of mocks each one is doing, it's more an exercise in seeing "what could happen if." So each subsequent mock becomes an opportunity for the expert to imagine "what if team X does this, how does that affect other teams down the line?" kind of thing. So taken each on their own merit, individual mocks don't offer much from a prediction standpoint.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Kind of falls in line with the culture to be honest. I think Kenny under performed but I think the communication was very poor with a young QB. You cannot say one thing then do another. It was poorly handled. Cam is a great player, but under his, TJ, Minkah's leadership, they haven't done shit. They need guys who have some rallying power...like JPJ's dad had.

I've said it before in here, but both things can be true: KP was an entitled brat/p***y who didn't want to compete AND Tomlin mismanaged the QB room poorly.

It still blows my mind that there isn't 1 guy left from Cowher's regime; this is indeed Tomlin's team yet he still skates by without the media criticizing him for any of this. Jesse James called the lockerroom The Kardashians. Probably an apt description.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Up until last year the only mock draft that mattered was the Steelers broadcasting to the entire world who their pick was going to be.

With Khan that seems to have changed and he is much more open to playing the draft for value, willing to trade up or down or to see what comes to him.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Bengals sign OT Trent Brown to reinforce O-line

Offensive tackle Trent Brown has signed a one-year contract with the Bengals, the team announced Tuesday.

www.espn.com

 

[TooManyHumans]

I asked this months ago repeatedly and never got an answer so I'll try again. What plus QB traits has Pickett shown? He has a good enough arm (if he sets his feet and actually stands in the pocket, which he rarely does) and is athletic enough. He has not a single damn trait that is a plus for an NFL QB. To succeed he was going to have to be able to read defenses and throw with anticipation and accuracy. He does none of that. Even his accuracy was overrated. Pickett has nothing special about him.

 

[WickedWrister]

Lol Aiyuk really just tweeted this…

 

[Peat]

I don't mind the leadership of the team advocating for bringing in a guy, but like @Peat said, I do think there is some hypocrisy there if Heyward did criticize other players for doing the same in the past.

I'm a big believer in player empowerment but it's got to be about things they know. Asking players for input on what team discipline standards should be? Yes. Listening to them if they're going "this isn't working, this would" on the field? Yes.

"Hey, this guy I only ever played against twice, last time in 2019"... how would you know? Is Cam a film junkie studying stuff about QBs he never plays all the time? If Cam was pushing for some OL he faced twice a year, I'd listen hard. This? What can Cam advocate for other than his personality and reputation, which is not how the team should be making decisions (but maybe did)?

Kind of falls in line with the culture to be honest. I think Kenny under performed but I think the communication was very poor with a young QB. You cannot say one thing then do another. It was poorly handled. Cam is a great player, but under his, TJ, Minkah's leadership, they haven't done shit. They need guys who have some rallying power...like JPJ's dad had.

Well yeah. I didn't finish saying that because we're all aware of this team's now persistent culture problems.

I'm glad they got Pickett out of town. His results and certain aspects of his behaviour more than warrant it. Honestly, I'm still slightly perturbed that the Steelers allegedly looked at all this and thought "hey, great idea for developmental number two" and the only reason he's not here is he didn't want to be. I got sticking with him as a last chance shot that cost the team nothing more than time and had some jackpot potential, but once you're not giving him that time, then for the love of god let him go. I'd feel happier if the Steelers sold the story "we just didn't think it was working"...

... but they wouldn't do that because that invites all the questions about "why" that they don't want to answer and have somehow avoided.

Up until last year the only mock draft that mattered was the Steelers broadcasting to the entire world who their pick was going to be.

With Khan that seems to have changed and he is much more open to playing the draft for value, willing to trade up or down or to see what comes to him.

Eh. I thought it was very, very broadcast they wanted a LT last year (with the only slight doubt being "just how much do they love JPJ").

 

[JTG]

Aiyuk and Pickens would be outrageous.

 

[xlm34]

I'm a big believer in player empowerment but it's got to be about things they know. Asking players for input on what team discipline standards should be? Yes. Listening to them if they're going "this isn't working, this would" on the field? Yes.

"Hey, this guy I only ever played against twice, last time in 2019"... how would you know? Is Cam a film junkie studying stuff about QBs he never plays all the time? If Cam was pushing for some OL he faced twice a year, I'd listen hard. This? What can Cam advocate for other than his personality and reputation, which is not how the team should be making decisions (but maybe did)?



Well yeah. I didn't finish saying that because we're all aware of this team's now persistent culture problems.

I'm glad they got Pickett out of town. His results and certain aspects of his behaviour more than warrant it. Honestly, I'm still slightly perturbed that the Steelers allegedly looked at all this and thought "hey, great idea for developmental number two" and the only reason he's not here is he didn't want to be. I got sticking with him as a last chance shot that cost the team nothing more than time and had some jackpot potential, but once you're not giving him that time, then for the love of god let him go. I'd feel happier if the Steelers sold the story "we just didn't think it was working"...

... but they wouldn't do that because that invites all the questions about "why" that they don't want to answer and have somehow avoided.



Eh. I thought it was very, very broadcast they wanted a LT last year (with the only slight doubt being "just how much do they love JPJ").

Yeah I think players have time and time again proven that they aren’t great judges of talent. Just look at some of top 100 lists as voted by players and you’ll see some real head scratchers.

I don’t doubt that they’ve made their opinion known on the QB situation internally but I wonder if this was a case of Tomlin/Khan coming to them and being like “Hey we want to bring in Wilson, do you mind talking to him and making a pitch on why he should come to Pittsburgh?”

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kind of falls in line with the culture to be honest. I think Kenny under performed but I think the communication was very poor with a young QB. You cannot say one thing then do another. It was poorly handled. Cam is a great player, but under his, TJ, Minkah's leadership, they haven't done shit. They need guys who have some rallying power...like JPJ's dad had.

I think this all goes back to Tomlin. We've had this discussion a ton of times, but Tomlin's hands-off style worked great when they had that established group of leaders that he inherited from the Cowher Steelers teams. But as those guys retired, the new guys just didn't step into their spots to take those leadership roles, and I think the locker room greatly declined due to it.

It is Tomlin's job to step in at that point, which is why the failure of leadership is ultimately on him, but I think it's understandable considering what he was when he first came in as the coach.