OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Camp Tomlin

[td_ice]

Finally got around to watching the Galaxy/Barca match.

Whoa.....that first half........I would say possession was about 90/10 in favor of Barca in the first 45+. I don't think LA had possession until about 10 minutes into the match. Barca is just ridiculous with their one touch passing and keeping the ball. But it's not (always) really entertaining. Albeit ridiculously impressive. Despite all that possession in the first half, they really only had 2 maybe 3 good chances.

That Suarez goal might have been a handball.

They have to be the fittest side in the world with how they play. Keep possession, keep possession, lose possession and just flat out run to the ball sending 3 players to the ball.

There were a couple times that Keane, defending, was just a statue, because he realized it was wasted energy to even attempt to move when they had numbers and he had no chance.

Nice header for the Galaxy for their only goal.

I see ManU beat them (Barca) today. Haven't had a chance to check it out.

 

[td_ice]

I totally forgot about the 3rd place game. Glad I didn't even bother to DVR it. Doesn't sound good.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I believe they were outshot like 25 to 5

 

[td_ice]

I believe they were outshot like 25 to 5

oh my.........that's sad.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Klinsmann is lucky that the US is such a goaltender factory, the only reason that game was close was because Brad Guzan made something like 10 saves.

And to add insult to injury...the game was on Fox Sports 2, so it wasn't even in high def


I'm so torn on Klinsmann...he does a lot of good, but his personnel decisions are nothing short of baffling. If Timmy Chandler had dual US/Canadian citizenship and/or played anywhere other than Germany he'd never have been given a second look.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Highlight of the game...

 

[Big McLargehuge]

CONCACAF officiating, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

It's hard to top drafting a couple of HOFers, no doubt. However, like I said, Cowher wanted Andrews. So that's a major blunder he would have made. The entire fate of this franchise would have been significantly altered for the worst IMHO.

Don't forget Beachum is now considered one of the best T in the game. He was ranked fourth among T by ProFootballFocus and one of the leagues secret superstars:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/06/22/secret-superstars-pittsburgh-steelers/

I also really think Bryant, Thomas, Tuitt and Shazier will be impact players as well. This years class looks promising, but we have to wait and see. If a couple of these guys work out, along with the four previously mentioned, Tolbert's drafting the last five years will definitely be quite impressive.

Beachum sounds like a solid player but he got burned by Suggs/Dumerville in the playoffs. He can't handle elite rushers. He also has freakishly long legs so he's kind of weird to look at.

 

[Captain Hook]

Beachum sounds like a solid player but he got burned by Suggs/Dumerville in the playoffs. He can't handle elite rushers. He also has freakishly long legs so he's kind of weird to look at.

I'm not sure I'd say he got burned. Beachum actually didn't even give up a sack in the playoff game against Baltimore and he was the Steelers highest graded offensive player by PFF that night. The latter isn't saying much considering how poorly the offense played but he was still mostly fine in that game. Pretty much the only big thing Beachum did wrong that night was take a penalty that brought back the Archer TD.

Furthermore, every other Steelers lineman got manhandled in that game and got negative grades from PFF. Beachum was the only one that received a positive grade. The RB's also couldn't block anyone to save their lives that night. They really missed Bell in that regard.

I don't really worry about the interior of the line. Pouncey and DeCastro can play much better than they played in that playoff game. The biggest match-up issue they have with the Ravens is that Marcus Gilbert absolutely cannot block Dumerville. It is a match-up nightmare.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Beachum sounds like a solid player but he got burned by Suggs/Dumerville in the playoffs. He can't handle elite rushers. He also has freakishly long legs so he's kind of weird to look at.

He didn't get burned in the playoffs agt Balt. He didn't even give up a sack.

Not singling you out obviously, but your post is the perfect example of why most fans don't appreciate Beachum.

People see the smallest LT in the league and combine it with the fact he was a seventh round pick. So they make the mistake of assuming he's a decent, but nothing more kind of starter.

The reality is he's one of the best LT in the league. Prisco has him as a top ten LT:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer...ed-32-teams-32-players-who-dont-get-their-due

Beachum only gave up six sacks all year and had a ridiculous 97.8% pass blocking efficiency rating by PFF. That was the second best rating of ALL LT in the league last season.

Beachum is a star in the making, but may never get his due because of his size and draft position.

 

[JTG]

Beachum hasn't got his due, and I'm definitely guilty of sort of piling on him at times. When you look at his numbers and then compare him with his peers though, he's a really awesome young LT.

 

[Al Smith]

Tomlin is atrocious with clock mgmt and his record agt losing teams is insanely bad.

I think your point about drafting could bring up a seriously good debate though.

It's been verified that Caher Paher wanted to draft Shawn Andrews, the big guard out or Arkansas. Rooney stepped in and vetoed Cowher and wanted Roth.

Andrews was a pro bowl guard, but think about how much of an all time blunder that would have been...

When you look at Tolbert's drafts, they really only had one bad draft, in 2008. They had some questionable picks, especially Hood who was never a two gap, and maybe JJ. However, the last 3-4 years they have really restocked this team with good young talent.

I was just kind of glossing over Tomlin's weaknesses to get to the bewildered look issue, but you're right, Tomlin's record against losing teams is a serious glaring weakness, and it hasn't been limited to one season. As far as clock management goes, I see a lot of Bengals games, and Marvin Lewis makes Tomlin look like Dean Smith, so my perception is a bit warped.

As far as drafts go, I think Tomlin's kind of redeemed himself in the last two years (2013/2014), and he does seem to have a flair for WRs. Other than Decastro, 2012 wasn't very good, and Adams has turned out to be a bust (or close to it unless he suddenly improves). Heyward/Gilbert have been good, but otherwise, 2011 hasn't worked out that well (Hard to label Allen as a bust as a 4th, but he really hasn't worked out). 2010 was good. 2009 OK with Wallace and Lewis, but Ziggy was bad for a first. Other than Mendy, 2008 wasn't very good at all.

I never particularly liked Cowher - I think he's kind of a dufus - but I think his drafts and player motivation were his big positives.

 

[JTG]

With that team Cowher was rolling with, many don't realize that two huge pieces of that were brought in via free agency - Jeff Hartings and James Farrior. Kimo was also a free agent pickup, and he worked that DE spot for a long time for us.

This team hasn't delved into free agency like that since, but luckily we are getting to a financial place where we may be able to do that soon.

I think one big thing that happened that put this team behind for a couple years was the demise of Lamaar Woodley. No one saw that coming. He got that contract and got real lazy and injury prone.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I was just kind of glossing over Tomlin's weaknesses to get to the bewildered look issue, but you're right, Tomlin's record against losing teams is a serious glaring weakness, and it hasn't been limited to one season. As far as clock management goes, I see a lot of Bengals games, and Marvin Lewis makes Tomlin look like Dean Smith, so my perception is a bit warped.

As far as drafts go, I think Tomlin's kind of redeemed himself in the last two years (2013/2014), and he does seem to have a flair for WRs. Other than Decastro, 2012 wasn't very good, and Adams has turned out to be a bust (or close to it unless he suddenly improves). Heyward/Gilbert have been good, but otherwise, 2011 hasn't worked out that well (Hard to label Allen as a bust as a 4th, but he really hasn't worked out). 2010 was good. 2009 OK with Wallace and Lewis, but Ziggy was bad for a first. Other than Mendy, 2008 wasn't very good at all.

I never particularly liked Cowher - I think he's kind of a dufus - but I think his drafts and player motivation were his big positives.

Obviously the more starters you pull out of a draft and their level of impact largely effects how successful people deem each class.

I personally feel a draft is a success if you can pull out two starters from that class.

I believe 2008 is the only draft Tolbert didn't find at least two quality starters, and it's widely agreed that draft class is Tolbert's worst.

All in all, there were a couple of thin drafts in there, but we are starting to see some high quality drafting paying off now.

Like you, I think the last three drafts have the potential to be the best in the Tomlin era. I won't be shocked if they pulled 8 starters out of those three drafts. Six of these guys are already starters or projected to be everywhere I've read:

Bell (starter)
S. Thomas (starter)
Shazier (starter)
Tuitt (starter)
Bryant (starter)
McCullers (second team backup)
Dupree (situational rusher)
Golson (nickel corner)

JJ is a true wild card that is suppose to start, and if he figures it out this season, that could make 9 potential starters.

Along with talented depth like Wheaton, V Williams, and Coates, these last three drafts can be the cornerstones for another couple of SB runs IMHO.

 

[TNT87]

Speaking of Beachum, I don't know who this Ralph Paulk is who writes for the Trib, but this article is makes no sense.

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/8801644-74/beachum-adams-steelers#axzz3gy5HmG6w

What competition for Beachum? Adams, who is going to miss four weeks? Villaneuva? Come on. The LT is his and it's going to stay that way. He writes that it hardly matters that he has started 33 out of 38 games and that he has started 31 straight. It doesn't matter? Okay. I could understand if this was written even last year but no one is going to take his spot at LT.

Beachum has been a definite steal in round 7. I thought he would be a solid guard but he has surprised me at LT. Still has room to improve at run blocking in my opinion. I would like to see them resign him. I don't know if I would put him at top ten though just yet.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

There's many reasons I consider the Trib a rag...Paulk just did a great job reiterating why I feel that way.

Beachum has no competition and Adams is both hurt and in the dog house...he's fighting for a job as a back-up this year, not the starters' gig.

And yes, it was easy to tell early on that Beachum was going to be a steal...but I figured at RT, I was shocked at how well he transitioned to LT. It's rather hilarious to me that we finally got that tackle we've been looking for for eons with a throwaway 7th rounder. He was a projected priority UDFA, the last of 3 7th round compensation picks we had, the 6th to last pick of the draft...needless to say he's had more of an impact than David Paulson or Terrence Frederick.

It made me chuckle looking this up finding that the pick before Beachum was Cleveland drafting a guy named Brad Smelley

 

[Harv]

People lining up at 9 a.m. for a 3 p.m. Stillers practice in July.

Yeesh.

 

[plaidchuck]

Jurys still out on tomlin imo. Last year the team seemed to turn a corner at the end when they doubled down and took the division. But then again that was mostly because Bell has given the team a running game again.

The game against the ravens kind of soured things though.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So Bryant is up to 225 lbs and apparently hasn't lost an ounce of his speed. I really think this cat is going to be crazy good.

I don't follow college ball anymore, but people I trust think Coates can be a hell of a player as well.

I can't wait to see both of them in this offense.

 

[djt153]

imo the defense has really let tomlin down in his playoff tenure. very interested to see differences in approach/scheme between butler and lebeau. neal coolong had some interesting tidbits that added further legitimacy to the speculation that the steelers would be looking to activate the defensive ends in pass rush to try and get more pressure.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

imo the defense has really let tomlin down in his playoff tenure. very interested to see differences in approach/scheme between butler and lebeau. neal coolong had some interesting tidbits that added further legitimacy to the speculation that the steelers would be looking to activate the defensive ends in pass rush to try and get more pressure.

Looks like they are going back to their roots and using the cover two.

I wonder how many reporters will say the Steelers are switching to the Tampa 2, when the reality is Dungy said he took it out of the Steelers playbook from the 70s.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

He didn't get burned in the playoffs agt Balt. He didn't even give up a sack.

Not singling you out obviously, but your post is the perfect example of why most fans don't appreciate Beachum.

People see the smallest LT in the league and combine it with the fact he was a seventh round pick. So they make the mistake of assuming he's a decent, but nothing more kind of starter.

The reality is he's one of the best LT in the league. Prisco has him as a top ten LT:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer...ed-32-teams-32-players-who-dont-get-their-due

Beachum only gave up six sacks all year and had a ridiculous 97.8% pass blocking efficiency rating by PFF. That was the second best rating of ALL LT in the league last season.

Beachum is a star in the making, but may never get his due because of his size and draft position.

To be fair, no one looks at the linemen when they watch a game unless they are either a) lineman got called for holding, b) Llineman get burned, or c) a scout. He'll get his due when/if he gets a big contract.

 

[JTG]

This team is undeveloped, and we now get to see how Tomlin does at developing. Look at this depth chart - it's insane. Of course not everyone is going to pan out, but wow do we have some serious talent.

Ponder - McCullers turns into a force impossible to handle in the middle. Tuitt takes big steps forward in his 2nd year. Heyward continues to be a face on that defense. Jones and Dupree both develop into 10-12 sack guys, Shazier and Timmons patrol the middle of the field. We have corners that are ballhawking nickel/dime players, and Shamarko roams the field like Troy to take heads off and play the box.

On offense...it may be as unstoppable as we have seen. A great offensive line that has 3 potential pro bowlers, a pro bowl quarterback, a pro bowl runningback, a a pro bowl wideout, with a couple young receivers who have potential be gigantic vertical threats.

I haven't been this excited for a football season in a very long time.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This team is undeveloped, and we now get to see how Tomlin does at developing. Look at this depth chart - it's insane. Of course not everyone is going to pan out, but wow do we have some serious talent.

Ponder - McCullers turns into a force impossible to handle in the middle. Tuitt takes big steps forward in his 2nd year. Heyward continues to be a face on that defense. Jones and Dupree both develop into 10-12 sack guys, Shazier and Timmons patrol the middle of the field. We have corners that are ballhawking nickel/dime players, and Shamarko roams the field like Troy to take heads off and play the box.

On offense...it may be as unstoppable as we have seen. A great offensive line that has 3 potential pro bowlers, a pro bowl quarterback, a pro bowl runningback, a a pro bowl wideout, with a couple young receivers who have potential be gigantic vertical threats.

I haven't been this excited for a football season in a very long time.

Ya, there is some serious talent on this team now. The chances of all of these guys working out probably isn't good, but I think a high percentage of them will.

JJ is the guy I'm most worried about. Not sure what to make of him. He was doing pretty well before snapping his wrist. Two game sample size though.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

This team is undeveloped, and we now get to see how Tomlin does at developing. Look at this depth chart - it's insane. Of course not everyone is going to pan out, but wow do we have some serious talent.

Ponder - McCullers turns into a force impossible to handle in the middle. Tuitt takes big steps forward in his 2nd year. Heyward continues to be a face on that defense. Jones and Dupree both develop into 10-12 sack guys, Shazier and Timmons patrol the middle of the field. We have corners that are ballhawking nickel/dime players, and Shamarko roams the field like Troy to take heads off and play the box.

On offense...it may be as unstoppable as we have seen. A great offensive line that has 3 potential pro bowlers, a pro bowl quarterback, a pro bowl runningback, a a pro bowl wideout, with a couple young receivers who have potential be gigantic vertical threats.

I haven't been this excited for a football season in a very long time.

I think this is overly optimistic. Last season the Steelers had 2 legitimately good players on D. The rest are either young and unproven or old and bad. Their pass rush consists of a rookie and JJ who showed nothing in 2 seasons. Furthermore, the Steelers may realistically have the worst secondary in the league.

I too have high expectations for Shazier and Tuitt for this year, and Dupree eventually, but the others are far from sure things.

This team is probably a 10 win team, but the D is a major weak point. Not to mention we don't know how the D will do under a rookie DC. Lebeau was nothing short of a miracle worker last season.