The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part II

[Engineer]

Again, this is exactly how fake news is created.

Alfredsson had talks with Detroit before he began talks with the Senators, and decided to go where he thought he's have a better shot at winning the Cup.

You seem to forget that prior to the summer that Alfredsson signed with Detroit, no other teams were allowed to negotiate with an impending UFA, but that summer the NHL rules changed and allowed (I think) a three day window for impending UFAs to talk with other teams, prior to July 1st.

So yes, it is quite possible that Alfredsson had preliminary negotiations with the Sens, over the year leading up to his impending UFA status, as all NHL team have done with their impending UFAs, and it is well known that he did hold talks in the "3 day window" with Detroit. It is also well known that having just played (at the Olympics) with a lot of Wings players, that he was being lobbied by those same Wings players to join them in Detroit.
?

Claiming others are making fake news yet you go full on wishy-washy with the most convoluted explanation I have ever seen, to in the end admit that Ottawa most definitely did have discussions with Alfie before he was allowed to have discussions with Detroit and that you just made up a claim you can't prove that even you agree is wrong, is the most ridiculous thing I've read on here in a while.

 

[Ice-Tray]

It doesn't surprise me that you consider sloppy thinking, poor articulation, and lack of attention to statistical accuracy as trivial qualities in a GM and not worthy of "serious" criticism. It helps me understand the basis of many of your posts.

Uh huh... Well, In the end I guess I can draw some consolation from the idea that I have at least helped you with your ability to understand something.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Oh, BTW, as you saying that making the ECF, and coming within one goal of the the SCF is your definition of "setting this team back years"?

One goal from the SCF!? Wooo. Why haven't we raised that "one goal away" banner yet?

 

[BondraTime]

One goal from the SCF!? Wooo. Why haven't we raised that "one goal away" banner yet?

The past is all that matters looking forward, duh!

 

[Micklebot]

Why does success in the playoffs last year somehow negate poor decisions prior? I mean, maybe if instead of Ryan, we had Silverberg (who is a clutch playoff performer himself) and an extra 2.5 mil in budget space, we still make it to the ECF, and are in a better place going forward. That`s not even accounting for whatever the 1st round pick and Noesen might have turned into for us.

It`s all well and good to say Alfredsson made his choice and went where he felt he had a better chance at the cup, but you have to wonder why he felt that way at the time. Detroit was certainly not seen as in a better place than Ottawa at that point, Ottawa had a strong prospect pool, so what was it that made Alfredsson think Detroit of all places was were he wanted to play his last season or two (he intended the play another year, but health prevented it).

 

[Xspyrit]

Sorry Eugene, letting Alfredsson walk and trading for Ryan to take his spot was a brutal decision that set this team back years, and now we're stuck with Bobby.

Well, this doesn't make sense considering Alfredsson was 41 y/o. At some point, players can't follow anymore and have to retire from NHL hockey. Stuck with Bobby? Without him, Sens don't make 3 rounds last season and he still produced at a ~0.7 PPG pace in each of his first 3 seasons. Overall, he still has a 0.62 PPG with Ottawa in 322 games, which means 51 pts per 82 games.

Overpaid? yes. Injury prone? yes. I'd rather spend 7.25 on a forward producing 51 pts per season and has the ability to have monster playoffs than not spending at all.

Why does success in the playoffs last year somehow negate poor decisions prior? I mean, maybe if instead of Ryan, we had Silverberg (who is a clutch playoff performer himself) and an extra 2.5 mil in budget space, we still make it to the ECF, and are in a better place going forward. That`s not even accounting for whatever the 1st round pick and Noesen might have turned into for us.

Problem in Ottawa is that they don't take short term loss for future gain. After Alfie walked, they should just have gone with it and possibly tank the season but if they don't make a splash, they aren't able to sell hope (i.e tickets and merchandise) and it might have put the franchise in jeopardy as it doesn't have the financial security that bigger markets have. Small market situated between Montreal, Toronto and New York obliges. There's probably more Habs+Leafs fans in Ottawa than Sens fans... Think about it...

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Claiming others are making fake news yet you go full on wishy-washy with the most convoluted explanation I have ever seen, to in the end admit that Ottawa most definitely did have discussions with Alfie before he was allowed to have discussions with Detroit and that you just made up a claim you can't prove that even you agree is wrong, is the most ridiculous thing I've read on here in a while.

The poster I was replying to, said that Melnyk was not going to pay up for Alfredsson, and that's why he signed in Detroit ........... THAT is fake news, Ottawa offered more money to stay in Ottawa.

Daniel Alfredsson Signs 1-Year Deal With Detroit Red Wings
Senators general manager Bryan Murray, though, was among the many shocked when Alfredsson said he was ready to leave the only franchise he has played for in his 17-season NHL career.

“He indicated winning a Stanley Cup was an opportunity he couldn’t pass up,” Murray said. “He told me the two teams he was talking to. He told me he thought they were in a position ahead of us to make that happen.”
While Alfredsson could have stayed in Ottawa to make more than the $5.5 million he will be paid next season by the Red Wings to chase the Cup




It does not take a rocket surgeon to know that one year before becoming an UFA, the team they're playing for has that entire year to negotiate an extension, and prevent the player from becoming an UFA.

Everyone knows that without saying.

In Alfredssons' case, he had the opportunity to negociate, with other teams, for that new three day window, prior to becoming an UFA.......... which was not allowed before.

He had not signed an extension, he knew what Ottawa had on the table, he talked with Detroit before becoming an UFA............. and once he became an UFA, may have held more talks with those same two teams, and made his choice.


Don't freak out, and make out like this is not something you're heard before, it was in all the newspapers back when it happened.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Why does success in the playoffs last year somehow negate poor decisions prior? I mean, maybe if instead of Ryan, we had Silverberg (who is a clutch playoff performer himself) and an extra 2.5 mil in budget space, we still make it to the ECF, and are in a better place going forward. That`s not even accounting for whatever the 1st round pick and Noesen might have turned into for us.

It`s all well and good to say Alfredsson made his choice and went where he felt he had a better chance at the cup, but you have to wonder why he felt that way at the time. Detroit was certainly not seen as in a better place than Ottawa at that point, Ottawa had a strong prospect pool, so what was it that made Alfredsson think Detroit of all places was were he wanted to play his last season or two (he intended the play another year, but health prevented it).

He may have intended to play more than one season, but only signed for one (for less money) season with the Wings.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

This article should be required reading for anybody who wants to discuss Alfie's 2013 departure. It doesn't give all the answers, but it is a good documentation of everything that was said publically by those involved at the time.

Kukla's Korner

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

One goal from the SCF!? Wooo. Why haven't we raised that "one goal away" banner yet?

Dorion can tell it to the grand kids... Back in 2017 , I can remember, I had a job in the National Hockey League...

 

[Wondercarrot]

Again, this is exactly how fake news is created.

Alfredsson had talks with Detroit before he began talks with the Senators, and decided to go where he thought he's have a better shot at winning the Cup.

lol
sure he did
weird how no one thought he was leaving, including his teammates, GM etc until the contract offer - wonder what it was about that offer that made him think Detroit had a better shot at the Cup?
was it the 2pts they finished ahead in the standings & the 1st round wipe out by the bruins you think that enticed him?
nobody (with the exception of you i guess) thought Alfie left for a "better shot at the cup"

Serious questions to you,have you ever spoken to anyone who knows him reasonably well? or anyone in a senior exec position with the team? anyone in a position where you might say "hey this guy probably knows what he's talking about"?
or do you literally just go by whats in the Sun or Citizen?

 

[Micklebot]

This article should be required reading for anybody who wants to discuss Alfie's 2013 departure. It doesn't give all the answers, but it is a good documentation of everything that was said publically by those involved at the time.

Kukla's Korner

Your link is dead.

He may have intended to play more than one season, but only signed for one (for less money) season with the Wings.

Sure, but that's likely because no team was offering a 41 year old multi year deals. When he'd deciding where to sign, I suspect it was more than just the one year in mind.

The really odd part is the other team he negotiated with was the Bruins who had just come of a SCF loss, and finished with 117 pts winning the presidents trophy the year he played in Detroit. If Alfredsson was chasing the cup, he made a really odd decision in who to sign for. I suspect they couldn't match Detroit's offer, because that's the only thing that makes sense.

Edit: and why not, I'll add some quotes to source that Boston was the other team;

Bruins GM Peter Chiarelli, who was familiar with the Super Swede from their days together with the Senators, heavily pursued the veteran winger and chose to sign Jarome Iginla when Alfredsson selected the Wings.
Though it’s believed Bruins’ scout P.J. Axelsson tried to push his old buddy Alfredsson towards Boston, the club couldn’t compete with the kind of love he was getting from the host of Swedish players in Detroit.

Source

Looking closer, Iginla's deal was worth more but relied on performance bonuses to get there.

 

[Wondercarrot]

The poster I was replying to, said that Melnyk was not going to pay up for Alfredsson, and that's why he signed in Detroit ........... THAT is fake news, Ottawa offered more money to stay in Ottawa.

Daniel Alfredsson Signs 1-Year Deal With Detroit Red Wings
Senators general manager Bryan Murray, though, was among the many shocked when Alfredsson said he was ready to leave the only franchise he has played for in his 17-season NHL career.

“He indicated winning a Stanley Cup was an opportunity he couldn’t pass up,” Murray said. “He told me the two teams he was talking to. He told me he thought they were in a position ahead of us to make that happen.”
While Alfredsson could have stayed in Ottawa to make more than the $5.5 million he will be paid next season by the Red Wings to chase the Cup




It does not take a rocket surgeon to know that one year before becoming an UFA, the team they're playing for has that entire year to negotiate an extension, and prevent the player from becoming an UFA.

Everyone knows that without saying.

In Alfredssons' case, he had the opportunity to negociate, with other teams, for that new three day window, prior to becoming an UFA.......... which was not allowed before.

He had not signed an extension, he knew what Ottawa had on the table, he talked with Detroit before becoming an UFA............. and once he became an UFA, may have held more talks with those same two teams, and made his choice.


Don't freak out, and make out like this is not something you're heard before, it was in all the newspapers back when it happened.

ottawa low balled him after promising him to make up for him playing out his previous contract, which at the time he added on time at extremely low $$ - not really believing he would play it out.
the org had told him they would make it up on the next contract.
When time came to 'make good' the team low balled him - thats why he had not signed an extension and how he even became available during that 3 day window. At that point his swedish buddies kept trying to convince him to come to Detroit (where he would be comfortable with other swedes etc) rather than re-signing in ottawa.
Alfie was pissed at how he was treated, when the Sens realized they f***ed up & were going to lose him they THEN offered him more than the $4 million they had offered, at which point it was too late.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Your link is dead.


Sure, but that's likely because no team was offering a 41 year old multi year deals. When he'd deciding where to sign, I suspect it was more than just the one year in mind.

The really odd part is the other team he negotiated with was the Bruins who had just come of a SCF loss, and finished with 117 pts winning the presidents trophy the year he played in Detroit. If Alfredsson was chasing the cup, he made a really odd decision in who to sign for. I suspect they couldn't match Detroit's offer, because that's the only thing that makes sense.

Edit: and why not, I'll add some quotes to source that Boston was the other team;

Source

Looking closer, Iginla's deal was worth more but relied on performance bonuses to get there.

http://kuklaskorner dot com/tmr/comments/what-went-down-during-daniel-alfredssons-goodbye-presser

Hf's fault. Replace dot with a .

 

[Micklebot]

http://kuklaskorner dot com/tmr/comments/what-went-down-during-daniel-alfredssons-goodbye-presser

Hf's fault. Replace dot with a .

I fixed it for you, there was actually an "e" at the end of the link that shouldn't be there. you had "pressere". You can still blame HF if you want, but not for the reason you stated.

 

[Engineer]

Again, this is exactly how fake news is created.

Alfredsson had talks with Detroit before he began talks with the Senators

Don't freak out, and make out like this is not something you're heard before, it was in all the newspapers back when it happened.

lol okay bud, and you probably think Alfredsson is lying right? Alfredsson had already discussed contract extensions with the Senators, so stop lying and saying otherwise.

"When I did my last contract for four years ending in the [2012-13] season, I was asked to help the team manage the salary cap by adding on an extra year to my contract," he said. "I agreed. Each side fully expected I would retire and not play the 2012-13 season. However, after the 2012 season, I told the Sens I wanted to play another season. I also asked that we look at a possible extension for this upcoming season, at a fair amount, to balance out the two years for both of us. [The Senators] agreed.
"Sadly, the contract negotiations went nowhere, but I played out the season as I had promised. In late June, I decided I had it in me to play at least one more season. I told management that I was willing to return, and I reminded them of our agreement from the year before. But, to my disappointment, negotiations again quickly stalled."
Alfredsson said at that point he started hearing from other teams as free agency dawned without him reupping with the Senators.
"Only days later, several teams contacted me

Alfredsson: Contract impasse led to Ottawa departure

Maybe you should stop creating fake news.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Really? Who? He did get out from Heatley, Spezza, Michalek and even Alfredsson before they declined. He did not re-sign Gonchar even if it created a big hole on defense because he was also in further decline. I'm not really sure who you're talking about here. I see more of a perception comment. Maybe Murray got rid of some players too soon actually, but in some cases, players forced his hand because they wanted out. I don't read this board much anymore because there's so much inaccuracy that I would have to quote so many posts that it would end up as a full-time job.

Maybe you're thinking about Phillips and Neil? Those are 2 career Senators which is part of the very little legacy here in Ottawa. They had decreasing roles as they got older. Nothing wrong with having a few vets in your line-up, it's not what is supposed to prevent you from being a good team. Tampa has Kunitz, Callahan, Coburn and Girardi this year in their line-up and they only have 9 Loss on the season.

Got out from them? They demanded trades lmao. And no he did not sell on michalek lmao. He literally waits until Michalek could barely move to move him.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Considering Alfredsson left this organization TWICE, it's definitely fair to say a combination of money and ownership played a role in this.

 

[JD1]

Considering Alfredsson left this organization TWICE, it's definitely fair to say a combination of money and ownership played a role in this.

I think considering he came back ONCE that he himself feels a degree of responsibility for his first departure

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think considering he came back ONCE that he himself feels a degree of responsibility for his first departure

And on today's episode of HFSens....
We delve deep into the mind of Daniel Alfredsson.

 

[JD1]

And on today's episode of HFSens....
We delve deep into the mind of Daniel Alfredsson.

I don' get why this subject keeps coming up to be honest

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I think considering he came back ONCE that he himself feels a degree of responsibility for his first departure

He knew he made a mistake, and wanted to mend fences.

If he was truly treated as bad as some "fans" here are suggesting, he would have simply had nothing more to do with the Sens, and either stay in the Detroit area, or return to Sweden.

His return is basically an admission he was wrong to leave, as you clearly point out.

Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Micklebot]

He knew he made a mistake, and wanted to mend fences.

If he was truly treated as bad as some "fans" here are suggesting, he would have simply had nothing more to do with the Sens, and either stay in the Detroit area, or return to Sweden.

His return is basically an admission he was wrong to leave, as you clearly point out.

Actions speak louder than words.

Wait what? People are arguing that Alfredsson left because he felt wronged in the process. It does not intuitively follow that is returning means he felt he was wrong for having left or that he now feels that he wasn't treated poorly. It could mean any number of things. Perhaps the team said they wanted to make it up to him, and were the ones looking to make amends. Perhaps Alfredsson loves the team and the community so much that he was willing to look past what happened and put the past behind him, but is still happy with his decision to play in Detroit.

Nowhere does coming back after leaving automatically imply that his decision to play a year elsewhere was a mistake in his mind.

How can you go out and shout fake news at another poster's hypothesis (complete with some factually incorrect statements of your own when 'correcting' them) and then so quickly come back with something like this portrayed as a statement of fact?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

He knew he made a mistake, and wanted to mend fences.

If he was truly treated as bad as some "fans" here are suggesting, he would have simply had nothing more to do with the Sens, and either stay in the Detroit area, or return to Sweden.

His return is basically an admission he was wrong to leave, as you clearly point out.

Actions speak louder than words.

And his last action, was to leave a second time.

Actions speak louder than words.

 

[NyQuil]

How many players leave their teams to chase a Cup or play someone else and then come back to their original clubs in some capacity?

Admission that he was wrong? What?