Speculation: The Official Bjugstad Thread: Alias Hate and Love not far from each other

[Chaos2k7]

If anything it would be more important to shelter the younger guys.

Nick at this stage should be able to handle himself. But he cant.

Not a long term piece. Gasp if you must.

If we make the playoffs, it will be Nick carried us in, lol. No he is a third option on the top line. Thats all.

 

[SimbaThePanther]

If anything it would be more important to shelter the younger guys.

Nick at this stage should be able to handle himself. But he cant.

Not a long term piece. Gasp if you must.

If we make the playoffs, it will be Nick carried us in, lol. No he is a third option on the top line. Thats all.

I don't think that will be the headlines around here. My guess is most of us realise he is putting up this amount of points cause of the players he is playing with. But that's not a bad thing at all, if it works it works...all that matters. However, it would be fun to see if his time on the Barkov line might have made him a even better player to be a better option on a 3rd line with the right people (McCann, Mamin/Vatrano?). Like I've said before, his play allround has got better and better as the season has progressed. But I don't think we will ever know, cause it would be stupid to move him down in the lineup at this point after all.

But I agree with you. Long term, he won't be on the team. Considering the offensive guys we have in the pipeline, someone has to go sooner or later and I still can't see a spot for him. 4M on the top 2 lines is fine, but on the 3rd line long term wouldn't be good unless he could prove to carry that line...

 

[Chaos2k7]

I don't think that will be the headlines around here. My guess is most of us realise he is putting up this amount of points cause of the players he is playing with. But that's not a bad thing at all, if it works it works...all that matters. However, it would be fun to see if his time on the Barkov line might have made him a even better player to be a better option on a 3rd line with the right people (McCann, Mamin/Vatrano?). Like I've said before, his play allround has got better and better as the season has progressed. But I don't think we will ever know, cause it would be stupid to move him down in the lineup at this point after all.

But I agree with you. Long term, he won't be on the team. Considering the offensive guys we have in the pipeline, someone has to go sooner or later and I still can't see a spot for him. 4M on the top 2 lines is fine, but on the 3rd line long term wouldn't be good unless he could prove to carry that line...

You get it.

None of that is bad mouthing Nick, or hoping he fails.

He just is what he is.

But when you start seeing quotes of how it will be next season, and with Nick on the top line. That to me is quite presumptuous.

 

[Brokin]

lol

People calling him a bust and waiver fodder among other things.

I'd say there has been a mild over-reaction.

lol.

The criticisms in past seasons and recent games were justified as he was awful. This season he has tried to contribute in ways other than the scoresheet and the effort has not gone un-noticed by Mr. Boo even though to the untrained eye it still looked rather unimpressive. In spite of that, he has been bounced around like flubber from line to line until finally finding a home down the stretch. I even said a month or so ago that he would likely end up as a buy out candidate as he wasn't doing anything to help his own value ($5M per) in a trade. Other than last nights game, his high assist/goal ratio was due to being mostly a passenger on a line of uber talented guys. Sure he had a few nice primary assists but on most nights the puck died on his stick.

Nick's biggest assets are his size, shot, and speed on the forecheck and backcheck. He worked all 3 to perfection last night and actually played with confidence. There's no reason he can't continue to be successful playing with these two guys as long as he shows the urgency that needs to do this on a nightly basis.

As long as Tallon is still around, he will have a slot with the Cats. The question that will come up with the committee is who are we going to move to give a slot to Borgstrom? Borgstrom can play RW or LW. This leaves them with a conundrum of who to trade for assets if Malgin is secure on the 2nd line................Nick or Huby? It's a nice problem to to think about before next season.

 

[Chaos2k7]

lol.

The criticisms in past seasons and recent games were justified as he was awful. This season he has tried to contribute in ways other than the scoresheet and the effort has not gone un-noticed by Mr. Boo even though to the untrained eye it still looked rather unimpressive. In spite of that, he has been bounced around like flubber from line to line until finally finding a home down the stretch. I even said a month or so ago that he would likely end up as a buy out candidate as he wasn't doing anything to help his own value ($5M per) in a trade. Other than last nights game, his high assist/goal ratio was due to being mostly a passenger on a line of uber talented guys. Sure he had a few nice primary assists but on most nights the puck died on his stick.

Nick's biggest assets are his size, shot, and speed on the forecheck and backcheck. He worked all 3 to perfection last night and actually played with confidence. There's no reason he can't continue to be successful playing with these two guys as long as he shows the urgency that needs to do this on a nightly basis.

As long as Tallon is still around, he will have a slot with the Cats. The question that will come up with the committee is who are we going to move to give a slot to Borgstrom? Borgstrom can play RW or LW. This leaves them with a conundrum of who to trade for assets if Malgin is secure on the 2nd line................Nick or Huby? It's a nice problem to to think about before next season.

Nick or Huby, geez those are some tough decisions, lol.

 

[CHGoalie27]

Bjugstad didn't just suddenly yesterday become a better player or the last few games or when he was placed on Barkov's line. Nick has been improving gradually all season, slow but steady. He'll continue to be good and improve even more as long as there are no injuries.

No offense to everyone else, but if this was the only post in the thread, I'd have been fine with it.

@Chaos2k7 you know yer my boy, but you gotta try and look at this whole Bjugstad thing from this side of the angle LOL Again I remind, when his contract hit the news, ALL of us were amazed at how much of a steal it was. He's getting it back, so for the love of mike-he's human and somebody's child(child that put the moves on Datsyuk was it?), have some patience!~!

 

[GrumpyKelly]

No offense to everyone else, but if this was the only post in the thread, I'd have been fine with it.

@Chaos2k7 you know yer my boy, but you gotta try and look at this whole Bjugstad thing from this side of the angle LOL Again I remind, when his contract hit the news, ALL of us were amazed at how much of a steal it was. He's getting it back, so for the love of mike-he's human and somebody's child(child that put the moves on Datsyuk was it?), have some patience!~!

I wouldn't count on it. I mean, he was just waiver fodder a while ago lol.

I'm sure he'll get back his old status when he has a cold streak again. After all, it's a fair assessment of him when he's not scoring hatters

 

[Chaos2k7]

No offense to everyone else, but if this was the only post in the thread, I'd have been fine with it.

@Chaos2k7 you know yer my boy, but you gotta try and look at this whole Bjugstad thing from this side of the angle LOL Again I remind, when his contract hit the news, ALL of us were amazed at how much of a steal it was. He's getting it back, so for the love of mike-he's human and somebody's child(child that put the moves on Datsyuk was it?), have some patience!~!

He has been improving over the last few months. Like alot of players that are less liked and were ripped terribly they play better with an actual coaching staff. I am sorry that some take any negative comment towards a player they are enamoured with as over the top or unwelcome, but that doesnt change who Nick is as a player or his long term future on the team.

Also doesnt change that he has been playing better. You can also give credit to a player after he does something well, but it was also only one game ago he was benched, so its not as if this is a bed of roses type situation.

We have a lot of bleeding hearts in here, that have lost some favorites. Its gonna get worse before it gets better in this case.

 

[Chaos2k7]

I wouldn't count on it. I mean, he was just waiver fodder a while ago lol.

I'm sure he'll get back his old status when he has a cold streak again. After all, it's a fair assessment of him when he's not scoring hatters

Feel free to find me a quote where I said that.

In fact I am pretty sure you are one of the guys saying he had no trade value at the expansion draft, thats why he could not have been moved instead of Smith or March.

I am sorry I hurt your feelings with Nick, but it doesnt change a fair criticism that many posters here agree with.

Have to agree to disagree.

If he plays well I will credit that, if he doesnt why is he exempt from criticism, you guys bashed our D for 18 months, but no one can say an ill word about an under performing third liner?

How anyone watches a game like last night, sees what an engaged Nick can do, and is not upset that we might get 10 games like that a year. I dont know. Normally he leaves something to be desired. You know he can play a certain way but doesnt.

 

[Chaos2k7]

Apparently now you cant give a guy some credit if you ever had a criticism about them in the past.

You lose your right. LOL

Life just isnt fair.

 

[Ghoste]

Good point @Chaos2k7. Why does there have to be a 'side' we have to be on. If a guy is playing bad, bag on him. If a guy is doing good, give him props. Or don't.. it doesn't matter.

I was all on Pysyk for being our most consistent D-man last season. This season he's sucking. Can't we change our opinions at any moment in time?

-ghoste

 

[RogerRoger]

As long as Tallon is still around, he will have a slot with the Cats. The question that will come up with the committee is who are we going to move to give a slot to Borgstrom? Borgstrom can play RW or LW. This leaves them with a conundrum of who to trade for assets if Malgin is secure on the 2nd line................Nick or Huby? It's a nice problem to to think about before next season.

lol. Did he changed position this year? Last season he was at center. If he's playing center he'll replace McCann, if he's playing on the wing he can replace McGinn or Brickley. This lineup is not deaap, it's better with Borgstrom, but still not that deep. So I really don't get why people are so eager to get rid of players to thin the lineup.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

2 things.
You can't pencil in "not even rookies in the NHL yet" into the lineup, therefore the guy who's no where near the worst player on team can go.
And secondly, Bjugstad was a raw prospect that needed time and decent coaching/a decent team around him to help develop him. This should have happened a few years ago, but injuries and the teams he played on slowed down his development to a crawl. He is just now being a situation to develop his game, I don't care how old he is.
He doesn't need to be on the top line, as much as some think, to produce. Just look at the hattrick goals. That's how he's produced since came into the league. The rest of his game he can develop, this is what should have happened a few years ago.

 

[Chaos2k7]

lol. Did he changed position this year? Last season he was at center. If he's playing center he'll replace McCann, if he's playing on the wing he can replace McGinn or Brickley. This lineup is not deaap, it's better with Borgstrom, but still not that deep. So I really don't get why people are so eager to get rid of players to thin the lineup.

Because Nick is very clearly not a bottom 6 guy, there is no spot for him, and I am sorry but he deoesnt have as much upside in the top 6 as a Borg or a Tippett etc.

BB has very clearly since the start of the season been behind McCann as the third line center. All our forwards prospects are going to take his possible spots on the wing.

Fortunently he may be tradeable now.

 

[SoupyFIN]

And you gave a credible reason as to why its possible. We have like 17/18 forwards for next years team, between the NHL/AHL/and recent picks.

Some people will get moved, most likely someone playing in a position where someone projects to be better.

Alot of careers can be saved beside Barkov. Lets pump the breaks here, he is by no means untouchable. I know no one said that. But its starting. Support the guy, he is a good kid, but he is still a hot or cold scorer living with our top center, that is not a long term position for Nick.

If some of you guys think he would be just as good on the 3rd line away from Barky or Huby then you havent watched the rest of his career.

Again thats not a slight on Nick, just the reality of where he is on the roster.

I don't think there's anyone here that would say no to trading Bjugs, as long as it makes sense for us. But we can't trade him until we're 100% positive that Borg is ready to step in (potential at the end of the day is just that, potential, we have no idea how that turns out until we actually see him play as a pro) and is an improvement to what Bjugs has brought this season.

Say we trade Bjugstad for a pick/prospect in the offseason (expansion jokes aside, his value has bounced back up nicely after the season he's had, won't bring back a huge return but not a pure salary dump either), one week into 2018-19 we find out Barkov or Trocheck is going to miss half the season. Who's our center replacement at that point? Malgin, who hasn't been that good as a center? No thanks. Borgstrom, the rookie that probably isn't even going to play center unless a scenario like this happens? No thanks. McCann, who's still kind of getting sheltered on the 3rd line? No thanks. I would rather take my chances by putting Bjugstad back to center, with the way he's improved his all-around game. Guys like him that can go up & down the line-up and play wing or center are very valuable in this league.

There is no rush to trade him (unless you're of the camp that thinks he's going to fall flat on his face next season and lose all the value he's built up) and keeping him around is a good safety net to have in case Borg isn't ready. Basically don't trade him just for the sake of trading.

 

[RogerRoger]

Because Nick is very clearly not a bottom 6 guy, there is no spot for him, and I am sorry but he deoesnt have as much upside in the top 6 as a Borg or a Tippett etc.
BB has very clearly since the start of the season been behind McCann as the third line center. All our forwards prospects are going to take his possible spots on the wing.
Fortunently he may be tradeable now.

I assume you mean he is not a top 6 guy, because otherwise that's one hell of a turn around you just did! If players can put 16 points in 17 games just because they are on a line with Barkov, why didn't it happened last season? Why did Barkov's production increase since playing with Bjugstad? Since they are playing together; Barkov is on pace for 111 points, Bjugstad 77, Dadonov on pace for 96. If we can play Barkov with cheap talentless plugs, I see no reason to waste Borgstrom there. Play Sceviour there, since he should be good for +70 points there by your account.

I know you say that Borg and Tippett are more deserving of a 1st line spot than Bjugstad and also, that they have higher upside. But why not play them together? They can drive a line by themselves, since that's one of your main knock on Bjugstad. They'll drive the line together and post+80 points each!!

Dadonov(95)-Barkov(110)-Sceviour(70)
Huby(60)-Trocheck(60)-Malgin(60)
Borg(80)-McCann(70)-Tippett(80)
Mamin-Mack-McGinn

I reckon that by your calculation, this would be the best group of forward in the NHL.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

Feel free to find me a quote where I said that.

I didn't mean that you specifically have said he is a bust or waiver fodder but these comments are out there among others.

In fact I am pretty sure you are one of the guys saying he had no trade value at the expansion draft, thats why he could not have been moved instead of Smith or March.

What I said was if March was the cost to move Smith's contract without taking salary back, the cost would have been even greater to move Nick. And that it would be stupid to move him when he's value is at its lowest.

Also I think I was the only one last summer saying give him a chance to bounce back.

I am sorry I hurt your feelings with Nick, but it doesnt change a fair criticism that many posters here agree with.

Fair criticism?

Nick is probably going to end up having a career year statistically. And here we have a 10 page shit fest thread about him and how terrible he is. Not to mention "fair" comments like he's waiver fodder and a bust.

This thread is as far from fair criticism as it gets.

So yeah, we'll just have to agree to disagree what fair criticism means.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I think the "taking sides" part is Bjugstad vs Smith for the most part. Most of us, If not all of us wanted Marchessault over BOTH but the Smith group was acting like he was a far superior player to Bjugstad which he isn't in my books.

Smith can do things Bjugstad can't like play PK and a better playmaker in general, speed is debatable but I'd give the edge to Smith in a straight line but Bjugstad can do things Smith can't like protect the puck, drive to the net or play both wing and Center if need be and be the closest thing to a Jagr for Barkov in the sense of playing below the goal line and cycle. Both seem to be capable of 50-60+pts if playing on a top line and I guess it comes down to who's game you value/like better?

 

[GrumpyKelly]

Good point @Chaos2k7. Why does there have to be a 'side' we have to be on.

When you have people making comments like "Nick Bjugstad is waiver fodder" or "Dale Tallon is a moron" they tend to polarize the discussion. The people who make these types of comments are the ones taking "sides" and extreme sides at that.

 

[RainingRats]

I think the "taking sides" part is Bjugstad vs Smith for the most part. Most of us, If not all of us wanted Marchessault over BOTH but the Smith group was acting like he was a far superior player to Bjugstad which he isn't in my books.

Smith can do things Bjugstad can't like play PK and a better playmaker in general, speed is debatable but I'd give the edge to Smith in a straight line but Bjugstad can do things Smith can't like protect the puck, drive to the net or play both wing and Center if need be and be the closest thing to a Jagr for Barkov in the sense of playing below the goal line and cycle. Both seem to be capable of 50-60+pts if playing on a top line and I guess it comes down to who's game you value/like better?

Smith is a superior player to Bjugstad. Offensively and defensively. Not sure how styles of play matter that much. Yes they're different, one is also not as good. One manages to stay healthy and play special teams, the other not so much.

I'm happy to see Bjugstad produce but let's not pretend he's on the same level as Smith.

Last 5 season point totals
13/14 - 51, 38
14/15 40, 43
15/16 50, 34
16/17 37, 14
17/18 60,38

Throw in PK responsibilities and being good defensively, and it's hard to see how they're on or near the same level.

And I'm not knocking Bjugstad, for all the criticism he gets, and a lot of it is deserved, we're winning with him on the top line, he's producing, and Barkov and Dadonov are putting up nice numbers. He's also not a defensive liability and has made some nice defensive plays lately.

 

[RogerRoger]

Smith is a superior player to Bjugstad. Offensively and defensively. Not sure how styles of play matter that much. Yes they're different, one is also not as good. One manages to stay healthy and play special teams, the other not so much.

I'm happy to see Bjugstad produce but let's not pretend he's on the same level as Smith.

Throw in PK responsibilities and being good defensively, and it's hard to see how they're on or near the same level.

And I'm not knocking Bjugstad, for all the criticism he gets, and a lot of it is deserved, we're winning with him on the top line, he's producing, and Barkov and Dadonov are putting up nice numbers. He's also not a defensive liability and has made some nice defensive plays lately.

I agree with all of this. It's not because people go overboard with criticism of Bjugstad that we should go overboard with praise. He's playing very well lately, but he's not on the level of Smith.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

So he's good now after having one amazing game? Lol kk.

 

[Gentle Man]

Unite us all mighty Bjeast.

Another Hatter!

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Smith is a superior player to Bjugstad. Offensively and defensively. Not sure how styles of play matter that much. Yes they're different, one is also not as good. One manages to stay healthy and play special teams, the other not so much.

I'm happy to see Bjugstad produce but let's not pretend he's on the same level as Smith.

Last 5 season point totals
13/14 - 51, 38
14/15 40, 43
15/16 50, 34
16/17 37, 14
17/18 60,38

Throw in PK responsibilities and being good defensively, and it's hard to see how they're on or near the same level.

And I'm not knocking Bjugstad, for all the criticism he gets, and a lot of it is deserved, we're winning with him on the top line, he's producing, and Barkov and Dadonov are putting up nice numbers. He's also not a defensive liability and has made some nice defensive plays lately.

Ah yes that great Panther team where Nick lead our team in points to make it look more one sided? Smith played for a 1st place team that year btw and the injuries/GP for Bjugstad make a difference. We're blaming Nick for getting injured?

The 15/16 season he only play 67 games and was nearing a 43pt pace. Not that big of a difference in my eyes to Smith's 50pts who was playing 3 more minutes per game than Nick.

I guess we agree to disagree, they're both complimentary players and both could be traded if needed be or both would add to the depth of this team.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

Yeah if Bjugs can play like he has played this season and especially the last 40 games or so Smith is not as much superior as people make it out to be.

Especially if Smith continues his trend and has another off-year next season.

Bjugs needs to stay healthy, I think the injuries really did him in.