Player Discussion The missed franchise turning point was drafting Price over Kopitar

[JianYang]

When I followed the drafts at the time, I wanted Carter or Getzlaf (was 50-50% sure at the time) instead of Kost. I had 3 other picks in Parizé, Phaneuf and Perry. Timmins clearly missed on that one. They should have trade one of our overated player to get a second pick inj the first round.
Then when it was the year of Kopitar I said that's it, we have our future number center and hockey will be interrestiong to watch. We would have Koivu + Kopitar as centers, wow !! The years we had Kovalev also to mention, and Markov in great shape, etc.
We already had Theodore and Garon back up. Halak was already picked the year before.
But Timmins picked a f*** goalie. Gosh ...

And to add to the insult LA picked Quick in second round, double Gosh !

The question of goaltender fit did not age well.

Theodore was coming off an all star season in 03-04, but his best days were behind him as it turns out.

Garon, while highly touted, did not really end up establishing himself as a true number one guy.

Halak was a late round pick, and a complete unknown with little expectations at this point. He emerged into being an nhler, but even he never established himself as a number one guy anywhere.

 

[nhlfan9191]

That's a bad excuse . He played his games and did good. Backup or not he played enough games in the NHL to say he can start a game if needed. There is no padding stats. Allen is padding his stats while Price gotta blame the D in front of him. I remember well in 2015 Price defense was absolute garbage also and did almost the impossible.

You can say whatever you want in any ways possible , Halak and Price both had good careers and not because you play 60 games a season instead of 40 hold less value. That's half of a season.

Also price was overplayed because our GM couldnt find a backup since eh , weird 2010.

It isn’t a bad excuse. It’s not an excuse at all. There’s a big difference between somebody who can handle being a #1 goalie vs being in the background as a backup or in a tandem. Especially in Montreal where there’s articles everyday dissecting every single goal you give up. This is a terrible take. You’re just exposing yourself as having no understanding of the position.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The turning point was hiring Marc Bergevin. He inherited two of the best players in the league and some good young support players as well as a revitalized Markov. He promptly added scrubs and terrible coaches at both levels.

Pretty much end of story.

 

[Corson27]

Yeah I can't think of a bigger waste of time then this conversation lol. I still maintain the habs biggest issue is less drafting and more development, which means there's every chance Kopitar turns into Lars Eller for us.

Couldn't agree more. This doesn't bode well for Suzuki and KK (assuming he's not entirely screwed already) <sigh>

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

The question of goaltender fit did not age well.

Theodore was coming off an all star season in 03-04, but his best days were behind him as it turns out.

Garon, while highly touted, did not really end up establishing himself as a true number one guy.

Halak was a late round pick, and a complete unknown with little expectations at this point. He emerged into being an nhler, but even he never established himself as a number one guy anywhere.

But clearly Kopitar establish him self as a true top talent nhl Center and Quick became a solid G, selected by LA second round. We might say ok Price is a little bit better than Theodore, Ibisher, Garon, Halak, Huet and Quick but have to admitt this list are all nhl goalies.
But facts remains Timmins did missed a solid #1 center with Kopitar, like he missed Carter or Getzlaf, Bergeron (when he picked Urquart), he missed also Zajak, Giroux, Henrique, Point, Kreiger and Aho.

 

[Doc McKenna]

The turning point was hiring Marc Bergevin. He inherited two of the best players in the league and some good young support players as well as a revitalized Markov. He promptly added scrubs and terrible coaches at both levels.

Pretty much end of story.

He didn't make a decision, simple as that.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

The turning point was hiring Marc Bergevin. He inherited two of the best players in the league and some good young support players as well as a revitalized Markov. He promptly added scrubs and terrible coaches at both levels.

Pretty much end of story.

id also add that Timmins is heavily overrated.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

The turning point was hiring Marc Bergevin. He inherited two of the best players in the league and some good young support players as well as a revitalized Markov. He promptly added scrubs and terrible coaches at both levels.

Pretty much end of story.

You are all wrong and your way of seing what happened explains the mediocrity this team is builded. It started with Houle, continued by Gainey and Bergevin. No centers, no superstar forward and patching around an overated goalie. The concept of a winning team with a goalie superstar was obsolete anyway. A winning team needs top centers, some good wingers, 4 good D a good duo of goalies. Habs only concentrated with the goalie and explain their unsucces by blaming everybody except Price.

 

[canucklover123]

At their primes, Price was better than Kopitar. Unfortunately, the Habs didn't have much else. The Kings had some good teams, and outstanding goaltending when they won their two Cups.

This. Peak Price window didn't have a good enough team around him unfortunately. Price also kept us competitive enough not to tank and get good picks lol. double whammy

 

[canucklover123]

The turning point was hiring Marc Bergevin. He inherited two of the best players in the league and some good young support players as well as a revitalized Markov. He promptly added scrubs and terrible coaches at both levels.

Pretty much end of story.

Man he inherited a team with a key piece in nearly every position and a young gally and galch. So sad looking back now

 

[canucklover123]

You are all wrong and your way of seing what happened explains the mediocrity this team is builded. It started with Houle, continued by Gainey and Bergevin. No centers, no superstar forward and patching around an overated goalie. The concept of a winning team with a goalie superstar was obsolete anyway. A winning team needs top centers, some good wingers, 4 good D a good duo of goalies. Habs only concentrated with the goalie and explain their unsucces by blaming everybody except Price.

Yep, if anything we've seen in past couple years, you need a hot goalie not a star goalie.

 

[HotPie]

I haven't posted on this site in years. Do people still defend Timmins? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Miller Time]

I haven't posted on this site in years. Do people still defend Timmins? I'm genuinely curious.

nothing to defend... his track record speaks for itself. Using draft positions and NHL games played, our scouting under his influence remains in the top tier of the league no matter how much some ppl obsess over the inevitable whiffs and "what-ifs".

 

[HotPie]

nothing to defend... his track record speaks for itself. Using draft positions and NHL games played, our scouting under his influence remains in the top tier of the league no matter how much some ppl obsess over the inevitable whiffs and "what-ifs".

I'm just curious, because years ago, people legitimately thought he was good at drafting - and not even just good, one of the best. I suppose after 15 years, your legacy speaks for itself, and Timmins' legacy is pretty mediocre.

I guess, based on your post, he still has some defenders.

 

[Miller Time]

I'm just curious, because years ago, people legitimately thought he was good at drafting - and not even just good, one of the best. I suppose after 15 years, your legacy speaks for itself, and Timmins' legacy is pretty mediocre.

I guess, based on your post, he still has some defenders.

you perhaps have a different understanding of the word "mediocre". COmpared to the rest of the league, the numbers speak for themselves and show that the habs have drafted better than the average during his tenure...

 

[HotPie]

you perhaps have a different understanding of the word "mediocre". COmpared to the rest of the league, the numbers speak for themselves and show that the habs have drafted better than the average during his tenure...

I guess we simply have different metrics for defining "good" then.

 

[Chili]

I'm just curious, because years ago, people legitimately thought he was good at drafting - and not even just good, one of the best. I suppose after 15 years, your legacy speaks for itself, and Timmins' legacy is pretty mediocre.

I guess, based on your post, he still has some defenders.

When Marc Bergevin was hired, a stated goal was to build through the draft.

The current roster has 7 draft picks on the team, excluding Vegas, the lowest number in the NHL.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I'm just curious, because years ago, people legitimately thought he was good at drafting - and not even just good, one of the best. I suppose after 15 years, your legacy speaks for itself, and Timmins' legacy is pretty mediocre.

I guess, based on your post, he still has some defenders.

You could be surprise how many defenders he have. They blame everybody except Timmins. Poor developpment they always chant, like if the McCarron, Fisher, Sherbak, Leblanc, Kostitsyn, Tinordi, Beaulieu and Galchenyuk were good picks who would have become some Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Bergeron and Lidstrom if they were developped by other teams.
I mean, they were bad, simply, developpment or no developpment. Very poor excuse for bad picks.

 

[Miller Time]

I guess we simply have different metrics for defining "good" then.

Yup. Context matters to me, abstract assessments mean little.

 

[HotPie]

Yup. Context matters to me, abstract assessments mean little.

Context matters to me too, but we have different ideas of context.

 

[Hoochi Papa]

I guess we simply have different metrics for defining "good" then.

Indeed. Timmins' picks get opportunity to play in NHL but they barely deliver. If we prefer player quality over played games quantity, holy shit he looks bad. Safe picks without ceiling.

Michael McCarron has 72 games, Jacob de la Rose 238 and Jarred Tinordi 88. Combined that is almost 400 matches of nothing but meh.

 

[Hacketts]

this thread is the epitome of insanity.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Man he inherited a team with a key piece in nearly every position and a young gally and galch. So sad looking back now

That is sarcasm, eh ?

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Indeed. Timmins' picks get opportunity to play in NHL but they barely deliver. If we prefer player quality over played games quantity, holy shit he looks bad. Safe picks without ceiling.

Michael McCarron has 72 games, Jacob de la Rose 238 and Jarred Tinordi 88. Combined that is almost 400 matches of nothing but meh.

Those you mention are added in the Timmins positive results. Fascinating !
Thanks for bringing quality over games played in nhl in the debate.

 

[Miller Time]

Context matters to me too, but we have different ideas of context.

Ive identified mine. Thus far I haven't seen yours.

Not all ideas or concepts are equal.

A context of "good" that ignores the landscape or comparables and assesses effectiveness from a purely subjective lens make for entertaining sport talking head fodder & hyperbole, but little else.