The Long Fix Rebuild

[Heaton]

So if he wants to make the playoffs, he should be spending picks to ensure they take Helm/Ericsson/Abby/Mraz if your theory is accurate. But he's not doing that.

No, that's something he should be doing to start fixing the Wings issues.

Holland will probably be more willing to trade picks/prospects in season for veteran help if we're within striking distance at any point near the deadline (within 10 points) to try and make the playoffs.

 

[theD86]

I'm holding out hope the Wings draft defense and trade for defense. Otherwise long season ahead.

 

[HockeyinHD]

The Tigers, Pistons, and Lions you reference may be thoroughly inept at executing whatever plan they have, but their plan most definitely includes trying to win a championship.

I am always amazed at the level of telepathic prowess people assign to themselves when it comes to determining the motivations of others.

Alone among all of those teams, the Wings have actually won championships in the modern era, yet you seem to somehow believe those other clubs' motivations are driven by on-field success while Detroit's is not.

It's a pretty impressive, and wholly flawed, starting point.

I mean, your whole gripe about the Wings is how they aren't tanking to get better picks. Are the Lions? Are the Pistons? The Tigers? Yes, the draft is a tool of varying usefulness between those leagues, but literally none of those franchises are following anything close to the roadmap in their respective sports. They're all doing what the Wings are doing, except doing it worse, and you don't recognize it.

The current approach of the Detroit Red Wings completely prevents any realistic chance at ever winning another Stanley Cup again,

At least you aren't overreacting.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Nobody, say again nobody, is more patient then a fan who wants a total rebuild

Please. Most of the people talking up a rebuild will be out the door long before it got completed, and in the mean time would drastically reduce their time spent watching the team. Oh, they'd come back if it ever got done. If.

Everybody talks about how awesome they think a rebuild is until 24 months or so in and they are sick of getting their teeth kicked in 2 nights in 3.

We're in year 1 of missing the playoffs and watching a generally moribund team and already people are howling about how hard the games are to watch, if they are watching at all.

And Detroit didn't even sniff getting bad enough to land a pick that has a 20ish% chance of actually helping.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I'm holding out hope the Wings draft defense and trade for defense. Otherwise long season ahead.

Would love to draft Liljegren, I still believe he can be a special player. If he's off the board along with both Makar and Heiskanen. If we go D then do we go after Valimaki i don't know.

 

[Shaman464]

Please. Most of the people talking up a rebuild will be out the door long before it got completed, and in the mean time would drastically reduce their time spent watching the team. Oh, they'd come back if it ever got done. If.

Everybody talks about how awesome they think a rebuild is until 24 months or so in and they are sick of getting their teeth kicked in 2 nights in 3.

We're in year 1 of missing the playoffs and watching a generally moribund team and already people are howling about how hard the games are to watch, if they are watching at all.

And Detroit didn't even sniff getting bad enough to land a pick that has a 20ish% chance of actually helping.

Go ask Calgary fans which is better, a real rebuild or the treading water that they've done in the recent past.

I'll wait.

 

[Beltv]

Go ask Calgary fans which is better, a real rebuild or the treading water that they've done in the recent past.

I'll wait.

As of this most recent season, we aren't treading anymore IMO.

How many teams can you name that will be worse than us in standings?

Arizona
Colorado
Vancouver
Maybe New Jersey?

 

[Shaman464]

As of this most recent season, we aren't treading anymore IMO.

How many teams can you name that will be worse than us in standings?

Arizona
Colorado
Vancouver
Maybe New Jersey?

I have faith that Holland can return this team back to a team that will be between 7th and 10th in the East. He's really good at finding just enough talent to make sure this team doesn't actually have the ability to actually build a future.

 

[Syckle78]

I have faith that Holland can return this team back to a team that will be between 7th and 10th in the East. He's really good at finding just enough talent to make sure this team doesn't actually have the ability to actually build a future.

I don't think so. There isn't anyone available in free agency that's going to make that difference and we don't have the cap anyway. Barring a really bad trade where we mortgage any future we have to take on a couple good but aging players we're destined for bottom ten. Only problem is Holland is going to keep spending to the cap on long-term deals for mediocre players we'll be in cap hell when it comes time to sign whatever players we're drafting and developing.

 

[Shaman464]

I don't think so. There isn't anyone available in free agency that's going to make that difference and we don't have the cap anyway. Barring a really bad trade where we mortgage any future we have to take on a couple good but aging players we're destined for bottom ten. Only problem is Holland is going to keep spending to the cap on long-term deals for mediocre players we'll be in cap hell when it comes time to sign whatever players we're drafting and developing.

It's possible this season he will have enough to get another meh player via UFA. The team right now is a few overachievers away from moving up a couple spots in the standings. It's really not inconceivable that Detroit could be 10th in the East next year if that happens.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I have faith that Holland can return this team back to a team that will be between 7th and 10th in the East. He's really good at finding just enough talent to make sure this team doesn't actually have the ability to actually build a future.

Because we've finished between 7 and 10 so many times in the last decade. And the draft lottery clearly doesn't give anyone except the bottom 3 teams a chance at a top 3 pick.

Oh, to be treading water with top 10 picks, we've had so many.

 

[Red Stanley]

What do you mean no patience?

Dos ent patience imply waiting?

Nobody, say again nobody, is more patient then a fan who wants a total rebuild.

Those who don't, who want to try and squeak into the playoffs first and foremost but then if they don't argue well then at least we will get a higher pick are the ones without patience

They want immediate gratification

"Fire Holland NOW, burn the team down NOW, do what we say is best or we're likely to stop supporting your crappy organization!" said all those patient fans who aren't into immediate personal gratification. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Red Stanley]

Go ask Calgary fans which is better, a real rebuild or the treading water that they've done in the recent past.

I'll wait.

No need to wait for confirmation of what you already know to be the truth: that fans are the final authority on what's best, especially the really loud and obnoxious ones on social media. They're the voice of the omniscient fan hive mind.

 

[Heaton]

"Fire Holland NOW, burn the team down NOW, do what we say is best or we're likely to stop supporting your crappy organization!" said all those patient fans who aren't into immediate personal gratification. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

What's your point? Follow blindly and never question anything?

 

[Reddwit]

What's your point? Follow blindly and never question anything?

That he's morally superior to those of us who think there are actual problems with this team.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

"Fire Holland NOW, burn the team down NOW, do what we say is best or we're likely to stop supporting your crappy organization!" said all those patient fans who aren't into immediate personal gratification. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

This makes no sense

Your trying to reinvent the meaning of the word patience.

A rebuild is the exact definition of the word patience, i.e. delayed gratification.

Anytime you want results now right now means your not patient.

 

[Pavels Dog]

This makes no sense

Your trying to reinvent the meaning of the word patience.

A rebuild is the exact definition of the word patience, i.e. delayed gratification.

Anytime you want results now right now means your not patient.

And Holland doesn't even get 1 year outside the playoffs to rebuild the team. His first ever top 10 pick. We should at least wait and see how this summer plays out. See what kind of team we're icing next year. The lack of patience is obvious, people can't handle one year outside the playoffs unless it comes with a top 3 pick and tons of "rebuilding" moves.

 

[Heaton]

And Holland doesn't even get 1 year outside the playoffs to rebuild the team. His first ever top 10 pick. We should at least wait and see how this summer plays out. See what kind of team we're icing next year. The lack of patience is obvious, people can't handle one year outside the playoffs unless it comes with a top 3 pick and tons of "rebuilding" moves.

This isn't as meaningful as you're making it out to be. The Wings haven't been relevant (meaning, treading towards a cup) in almost 10 years. Holland should have been 'rebuilding' since Lidstrom retired. So yeah, I think 5 years has been plenty patient, but now all of a sudden Holland's do nothing attitude lands the team out of the playoffs and we're supposed to be more patient when he's shown no ability or desire to actually rebuild? You give him your 10 year patience window, mine has closed. Bring in the next GM who will rebuild properly and I'll defend them for the next 3-5 years while we don't win but do things the right way.

You obviously believe Holland is doing things the right way and we'll be back to being a contender with him at the helm. I've yet to see any reason why that's the case, but we'll see how great his summer is.

 

[Red Stanley]

What's your point? Follow blindly and never question anything?

My point is that's not the definition of patience, but people are free to be as (im)patient as they want.

 

[Red Stanley]

This makes no sense

Your trying to reinvent the meaning of the word patience.

A rebuild is the exact definition of the word patience, i.e. delayed gratification.

Anytime you want results now right now means your not patient.

So people on this board don't want Holland fired right now and the team gutted for immediate tanking?

 

[Heaton]

My point is that's not the definition of patience, but people are free to be as (im)patient as they want.

Sure it is, it's just not being 'patient' under the same circumstances. If you don't think the GM is capable of fixing the issues, you're going to come off as impatient, because some people (like myself) believe Holland could have the next 10 years and nothing would get 'fixed' if he stays the course.

People gave Holland the benefit of the doubt for years, now that he's bled this team of all of the talent and replaced it with nothing, people are getting antsy. Especially when he's come out and mocked the fans for having standards.

Here's my question, how patient should we be? Should we wait 3 years? 5 years? 10 years? What if in 5 years, we're still a team with no talent and still trying to make the playoffs every year. We never get a top 5 pick and our best player is scoring 55 points a year. Then can we get on Holland? Or should he get another 10 years because he didn't have the 'luxury' of high draft picks?

 

[Red Stanley]

Sure it is, it's just not being 'patient' under the same circumstances. If you don't think the GM is capable of fixing the issues, you're going to come off as impatient, because some people (like myself) believe Holland could have the next 10 years and nothing would get 'fixed' if he stays the course.

People gave Holland the benefit of the doubt for years, now that he's bled this team of all of the talent and replaced it with nothing, people are getting antsy. Especially when he's come out and mocked the fans for having standards.

Here's my question, how patient should we be? Should we wait 3 years? 5 years? 10 years? What if in 5 years, we're still a team with no talent and still trying to make the playoffs every year. We never get a top 5 pick and our best player is scoring 55 points a year. Then can we get on Holland? Or should he get another 10 years because he didn't have the 'luxury' of high draft picks?

Like I said, you are free to be as patient or impatient as you want to be. It's been literally a few months since we missed for the first time in forever. During these few months, we've secured a top 10 pick for the first time in almost 30 years and traded 3 roster players for even more picks. That somehow constitutes a lack of desire and ability to rebuild properly. But, hey, maybe you're right and Holland is as bad as you say when it comes to building a new core from scratch. The last 5 years have been discussed to death already and I've said all I wanted to say about that.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

So with the Islanders moving Grabo's contract freeing 5 million.

Any chance Nyquist for CDH happens this week?

Just wondering, we have heard the Wings have interest.

 

[Henkka]

So with the Islanders moving Grabo's contract freeing 5 million.

Any chance Nyquist for CDH happens this week?

Just wondering, we have heard the Wings have interest.

Interesting. Trade freeze will end after 11 hours...

 

[jkutswings]

Please. Most of the people talking up a rebuild will be out the door long before it got completed, and in the mean time would drastically reduce their time spent watching the team. Oh, they'd come back if it ever got done. If.

Everybody talks about how awesome they think a rebuild is until 24 months or so in and they are sick of getting their teeth kicked in 2 nights in 3.

We're in year 1 of missing the playoffs and watching a generally moribund team and already people are howling about how hard the games are to watch, if they are watching at all.

And Detroit didn't even sniff getting bad enough to land a pick that has a 20ish% chance of actually helping.

The team already isn't worth watching, and as a result, I don't watch the vast majority of the games. If they had a rebuilding plan in place, with an obvious agenda to let the kids play, and they managed to land a decent piece or two from high draft picks, they could be losing 8-0, and I'd still find it more worthwhile than the current nonsense.

Give me a team with young talent that goes 25-57 over a bunch of overpaid foot soldiers that hover around the 8th seed any day of the week.

Besides, fans REALLY tune in when the team starts doing damage in the playoffs, and Holland has written that out of the script, so why not try something different that at least has a chance at building something worthwhile?