The Long Fix Rebuild

[JohanFranzenstein]

I've heard (through friends of friends) that Dylan Larkin has been having the same sorts of problems Tyler Seguin was having during his time in Boston. I wouldn't be surprised if thats what led to some of his regression this past season.

If a Seguin style deal happened, I sure hope Holland would be smarter than Chiarelli was.

 

[A II R]

I've heard (through friends of friends) that Dylan Larkin has been having the same sorts of problems Tyler Seguin was having during his time in Boston. I wouldn't be surprised if thats what led to some of his regression this past season.

If a Seguin style deal happened, I sure hope Holland would be smarter than Chiarelli was.

Which part of the Seguin rumors? [MOD]

Would surprise me with Larkin.

 

[Winger98]

Let's not go down this road of guessing and insinuating something that can't be verified through an at least somewhat legitimate source.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I saw Larkin buying a Cadillac in Chicago.

 

[Shaman464]

Right that's why I see no reason to deliberately blow the team up and completely miss out on that 0.0001% chance that the youngsters take massive steps and we greatly improve. If our kids suck, we'll get a top 10 pick with chance for top 3 even without massive tanking efforts and the "nudge" needed to guarantee a top 4 pick could even be made at the TDL.
It's just all about patience at this point.

Because their improvement will take Detroit to 'bubble team', which just extends the pain? Because we all know if Detroit is in 9th/10th next year, and if Holland is consistent to his word, he will try to push at the deadline for a spare part to get into the playoffs. The best possible thing for this team is the commit to not making the playoffs next year. And this may involve trading players like Nyquist, AA, Sproul, XO, etc to contenders for picks and prospects, not a NHL ready D-man. But, Detroit cannot be in the mix next year if any of you want to see them contend in the next decade.

 

[Retire91]

That is the biggest impact to this whole situation. Holland used veteran stars in the last few seasons of their careers to stay in the bubble meanwhile all the decent prospects kept maturing. Now when we are at the cross roads the kids could be getting good enough to hit the bubble at the same moment all the elite talent evaporated from the roster.

So to extend the playoff streak 3 or 4 seasons with veterans that were neither exciting, did nothing in the playoffs, and contributed nothing to the team's identity Holland sold the future by putting this team in purgatory.

A team not good enough to contend, but not bad enough to land elite talent with top 5 picks.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I've heard (through friends of friends) that Dylan Larkin has been having the same sorts of problems Tyler Seguin was having during his time in Boston. I wouldn't be surprised if thats what led to some of his regression this past season.

If a Seguin style deal happened, I sure hope Holland would be smarter than Chiarelli was.

Which people grow out of especially the type of kid Larkin was. He was definetely nerdy

 

[Pavels Dog]

Because their improvement will take Detroit to 'bubble team', which just extends the pain? Because we all know if Detroit is in 9th/10th next year, and if Holland is consistent to his word, he will try to push at the deadline for a spare part to get into the playoffs. The best possible thing for this team is the commit to not making the playoffs next year.

Columbus went from bottomfeeder to top team in one season. They changed coaches and added Werenski mostly. Let's imagine Hronek becomes our Werenski in the next 1-2 years, we change to a coach that maximizes roster potential, Mrazek settles into a groove as a top 10 goalie, Larkin takes a step towards being a 50-60 point C, Mantha becomes a 30+ scorer... maybe it's a 0.00001% chance, but keeping that potential for the team is worth it. It won't cost us a much better pick if the kids don't take massive leaps and Holland won't buy at the deadline unless we're right in the mix.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Which people grow out of especially the type of kid Larkin was. He was definetely nerdy

Larkin always seemed like a Laxbro to me. Never struck me as nerdy.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Larkin always seemed like a Laxbro to me. Never struck me as nerdy.

Maybe not now but the dungeon video is full on

 

[Shaman464]

Columbus went from bottomfeeder to top team in one season. They changed coaches and added Werenski mostly. Let's imagine Hronek becomes our Werenski in the next 1-2 years, we change to a coach that maximizes roster potential, Mrazek settles into a groove as a top 10 goalie, Larkin takes a step towards being a 50-60 point C, Mantha becomes a 30+ scorer... maybe it's a 0.00001% chance, but keeping that potential for the team is worth it. It won't cost us a much better pick if the kids don't take massive leaps and Holland won't buy at the deadline unless we're right in the mix.

Uh, Columbus made some pretty aggressive trades and was in the cellar for a lot of years before they took their step forward. So don't pretend it was a light switch. This included trading away two of their star forwards in the last few years. Think Holland will trade Zetterberg and Larkin and abide multiple bottom 10 finishes?

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Uh, Columbus made some pretty aggressive trades and was in the cellar for a lot of years before they took their step forward. So don't pretend it was a light switch. This included trading away two of their star forwards in the last few years. Think Holland will trade Zetterberg and Larkin and abide multiple bottom 10 finishes?

Nobody is trading zetterberg. At this point there's no reason 2. Larkin could be traded but doubtful under holland and unlikely under a new gm. If there is a new gm he needs to see where he stands before doing anything

 

[njx9]

Columbus went from bottomfeeder to top team in one season. They changed coaches and added Werenski mostly. Let's imagine Hronek becomes our Werenski in the next 1-2 years, we change to a coach that maximizes roster potential, Mrazek settles into a groove as a top 10 goalie, Larkin takes a step towards being a 50-60 point C, Mantha becomes a 30+ scorer... maybe it's a 0.00001% chance, but keeping that potential for the team is worth it. It won't cost us a much better pick if the kids don't take massive leaps and Holland won't buy at the deadline unless we're right in the mix.

Do you plan your retirement and career on the chances that you might win Powerball next week, too, or is it just sports teams that you think should plan solely on inane and implausible outcomes that have nothing to do with reality?

 

[SirloinUB]

Do you plan your retirement and career on the chances that you might win Powerball next week, too, or is it just sports teams that you think should plan solely on inane and implausible outcomes that have nothing to do with reality?

I mean that exactly what the Oilers did. They chose to build their team through the "Powerball" and it took them 10 years. Just saying your analogy fits better with other teams

 

[njx9]

I mean that exactly what the Oilers did. They chose to build their team through the "Powerball" and it took them 10 years. Just saying your analogy fits better with other teams

Not really. They built their team through the same method that led teams like Chicago to the Cup. It just took them a bit longer because they got Yakupov instead of Kane, and RNH instead of Toews, and they never found a Keith. Trying to desperately cling to "winning" because there's a snowball's chance in heck that all of your players will somehow hit their absolute peak potential is very, very different.

 

[Frk It]

Trying to desperately cling to "winning" because there's a snowball's chance in heck that all of your players will somehow hit their absolute peak potential is very, very different.

What's the opportunity cost of that plan?

 

[SirloinUB]

Not really. They built their team through the same method that led teams like Chicago to the Cup. It just took them a bit longer because they got Yakupov instead of Kane, and RNH instead of Toews, and they never found a Keith.

Yes really. Their first Powerball tickets weren't winners but their ticket finally hit the mega jackpot in 2015.

 

[Birko19]

#40 is going up the rafters, don't bother with trade talks there. Larkin is possibly but highly unlikely given that he's a young local guy that has a lot of potential to be our captain down the line. If he is traded, Holland better be smart about it, if it's not for someone like Trouba for example, you better not mess around.

 

[Probert]

#40 is going up the rafters, don't bother with trade talks there. Larkin is possibly but highly unlikely given that he's a young local guy that has a lot of potential to be our captain down the line. If he is traded, Holland better be smart about it, if it's not for someone like Trouba for example, you better not mess around.

I don't see Hank or Larkin going anywhere either. Hank not ever, Larkin not any time soon. That said, he's having a really good performance for team USA at the tournament, and Holland would be a fool not to listen to any and all offers.

 

[Bench]

Maybe not now but the dungeon video is full on

Nerdy would be if the "dungeon video" had him rolling dice and slaying dragons.

 

[Winger98]

Nerdy would be if the "dungeon video" had him rolling dice and slaying dragons.

roll a D6, roll a D6

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Biggest problem with the long term fix is nepotism.

Anyone thats homegrown will be kept.

Holland is incapable of making a tough trade to improve the franchise.

 

[Shaman464]

Nobody is trading zetterberg. At this point there's no reason 2. Larkin could be traded but doubtful under holland and unlikely under a new gm. If there is a new gm he needs to see where he stands before doing anything

#40 is going up the rafters, don't bother with trade talks there. Larkin is possibly but highly unlikely given that he's a young local guy that has a lot of potential to be our captain down the line. If he is traded, Holland better be smart about it, if it's not for someone like Trouba for example, you better not mess around.

I don't see Hank or Larkin going anywhere either. Hank not ever, Larkin not any time soon. That said, he's having a really good performance for team USA at the tournament, and Holland would be a fool not to listen to any and all offers.

The point I was making, in response to Pavel's, was that to use Columbus as an example Detroit would need to trade pieces analogous to Johansen and Nash.

 

[steafo]

Biggest problem with the long term fix is nepotism.

Anyone thats homegrown will be kept.

Holland is incapable of making a tough trade to improve the franchise.

I don't know if that only impacts a long term fix either. Our upper management Owners/GMs/Coaches etc. all seem to be loyal to a fault (RE: Cleary, Maltby, Draper, Helm, Abdelkader, Chelios....). It really is a country club. Look how many of our former players retired right into an office job. I mean that is great if you're contending every year but we haven't had a realistic shot at the Stanley Cup since after our cup runs. It is annoying.

I'm by no means an expert and none of us are either but to see how quickly Toronto has turned it around makes my stomach turn. We are going to drag it out with quick patches and attempt to continue to rebuild on the fly when that hasn't seemed to work for ANYONE. Toronto, Calgary, Chicago...they all tried to patchwork rebuild in the early 2000s missing the playoffs or barely making it before they blew it up. Those were wasted years in my opinion. Chicago is a perennial contender (favorite) now, Calgary isn't far from being a really good team and Toronto is almost there as well. I would glady stomach a few years more of possibly picking within the top 8 or so for a rebuild roster of young talent.

 

[Ezekial]

"How quickly Toronto has turned it around"

As you complain about about us not being a legitimate contender since our last cup appearance 8 years ago.

Sick they finally hit on some picks and have good management, they've been awful forever.