The Legacy of Ken Holland

[The Zetterberg Era]

Why not?

Yzerman was put with Probert and Kocur.



There's the answer for you WHY oh WHY -people.

This isn't the 1980s and Larkin isn't the third best offensive player in the league ala Yzerman.

 

[The Zermanator]

This isn't the 1980s and Larkin isn't the third best offensive player in the league ala Yzerman.

Also the league's changed a great deal since then, last thing I want is to saddle Larkin with two banged up slowpokes. He'd be flying solo on the forecheck every time and his offensive opportunities would plummet. It was bad enough during Datsyuk and Zetterberg's twilight years but to do it to Larkin in his prime would be criminal.

 

[Richard Gibson]

Probert wasn't a banged up slow poke,get your facts straight

 

[The Zermanator]

Probert wasn't a banged up slow poke,get your facts straight

Lucic and Abdelkader are.

 

[Henkka]

My god you guys are SO SERIOUS in here, that even Yzerman wasn't on his playing career.

I hoped that hypothetical line for entertainment. Probably losing hockey and stupid lineup. But for entertainment.

Lucic and Abdelkader hitting hard and getting oppisite team pissed of + fights = loudest Little Caesars Arena we have seen yet.

If another tanking season happens, that would be fun to see.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

My god you guys are SO SERIOUS in here, that even Yzerman wasn't on his playing career.

I hoped that hypothetical line for entertainment. Probably losing hockey and stupid lineup. But for entertainment.

Lucic and Abdelkader hitting hard and getting oppisite team pissed of + fights = loudest Little Caesars Arena we have seen yet.

If another tanking season happens, that would be fun to see.

I get that it hopefully wasn't serious. The only way Lucic should wind up with the Wings is if Abdelkader was traded for him...

But it cannot be positioned as a short term deal, both guys have a long time left on deals they are already playing like hot garbage on. Those might be the two worst contracts in the league right now.

Loui Eriksson out in Vancover being the other part of the three worst in my opinion.

 

[The Zermanator]

My god you guys are SO SERIOUS in here, that even Yzerman wasn't on his playing career.

I hoped that hypothetical line for entertainment. Probably losing hockey and stupid lineup. But for entertainment.

Lucic and Abdelkader hitting hard and getting oppisite team pissed of + fights = loudest Little Caesars Arena we have seen yet.

If another tanking season happens, that would be fun to see.

Calling it entertainment is subjective. Bertuzzi and Mantha with Larkin is a far more entertaining prospect to me than Lucic and Abdelkader would be. And if hitting hard and fighting is so entertaining, let them do it on the 4th line with Glendening centering them. At least that way you're not weighing down Larkin with 3rd/4th line plugs.

But this is all academic anyway, why on Earth would you want 10M+ in cap space and 2 roster spots tied up in those two for the next 4 years?!

 

[Retire91]

What do you do if you advise your owner that and he says try to extend the playoff streak as long as you can?

I agree, Holland's hands might have been tied by an ownership that didn't see where the team was going or simply cared about playoff revenue at the price of long term success.

When the wings were still putting up 100 point seasons and making the playoffs in decent seeds I can understand the argument that its not time to blow it up from a non hockey and a financial perspective. But it was obvious at that time that the core was not going to carry a deep playoff run and the supporting cast did not have the talent to fill in the gaps. How many years do you make the playoffs just for show. And how many trades and signings do you want to make just to make the playoffs with no chance of winning a cup and pushing out the rebuild another year and making the rebuild that much harder. A hockey personality looking at the big picture could predict that future back in the late 2000's early 2010's.

I get it that he might have been directed by ownership. But in all honesty even if his goal was to extend the window and maybe even win another one, his trades and signings during that time period were mediocre at best.

LOL lucic abdelkater Larkin are not in the same orbit as Yzerman Probert Kocur. Heck the grind line might even be better than Lucic abdelkater Larkin

 

[ShelbyZ]

I get it that he might have been directed by ownership. But in all honesty even if his goal was to extend the window and maybe even win another one, his trades and signings during that time period were mediocre at best.

IMO, player development done during that time period was also mediocre at best, if not worse...

If you look at the drafts that might've been expected to deliver players that would make some kind of impact post Lidstrom (from 2005 to 2011), you have pretty disappointing record:

Forwards: The two best would be Nyquist and Tatar, who are probably 2nd line wingers at best. Then you have some third line at best guys in Abdelkader, Helm and Sheahan, followed by a whole bunch of guys that ended up just being short term 4th line plugs that were quickly out of the league

Dmen: Nick Jensen is arguably the best taken, and the jury is still out on whether he's anything more than a 3rd pairing guy in the NHL... Followed by guys like Smith and Kindl, who at least stuck around the NHL level but never really became anything worthwhile, then guys that had short tenures as NHL plugs in Marchenko, Ouellet and Sproul

Goalie: Petr Mrazek obviously tops the chart since the only other goalie to play in the NHL was McCollum, who never even started an NHL game

You also have an interesting trend of guys peaking early and/or short, and then either regressing (Nyquist and Tatar) or really dropping off, sometimes in spectacular fashion (Kindl, Smith, Sheahan, Mrazek, Jurco, Ouellet, Marchenko)

I think when your plan is basically to keep a playoff team relevant by "just getting in" and hoping you strike oil with UFA's and prospects, while being completely resistant to making lateral trades that might shake up your roster and/or keep your prospect pool stocked by making moves to recoup assets for players that you know you aren't going to be able to keep or afford, that player development that went on was an equal contributor in the downfall.

I've always thought the surprise 2013 playoff run and then some promising play from young guys in that season and the next is what kept Holland going with the plan until the wheels fell of in 2017.

Asset management was also a daggar. You lose 3 of your top 4 dmen in around a years time, but hey let's just hang on to Filppula and Hudler for the last years of their contracts and see what happens when they need a new one. Not like we can't get some guys on the free agent market... oh wait.

 

[Henkka]

Asset management was also a daggar. You lose 3 of your top 4 dmen in around a years time, but hey let's just hang on to Filppula and Hudler for the last years of their contracts and see what happens when they need a new one. Not like we can't get some guys on the free agent market... oh wait.

Nobody sells their UFAs when you are a playoff team.

This is like freaking saying that Earth is flat.

Pure idiotism.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Nobody sells their UFAs when you are a playoff team.

This is like freaking saying that Earth is flat.

Pure idiotism.

Take a chill pill bud. With some research, your whole post now looks like pure "idiotism".

First, in the same season that Filppula was a UFA, the Sharks were slightly ahead of the Wings in the standings and sold off Douglas Murray, Michal Handzus and Ryan Clowe. Although, they did make some minor adds in Scott Hannan and Raffi Torres, that's still pretty much a net loss for a playoff team.

However, that wasn't what I meant. I was talking about selling the last year of their contracts in the offseasons prior to their last years (IE 2011 and 2012). The Hawks did this regularly with guys they knew they weren't going to be able keep in and around their 3 Cup wins.

nObOdY sElLs ThEiR uFaS wHeN yOu ArE a PlAyOfF tEaM

 

[Henkka]

Oh, Hawks did everything right.

It just didn't need more than Dale Tallon being Stan Bowman's junkyard at Florida. Too bad Holland wasn't smart enough to build that kind of connection at Detroit.

Yzerman wanted to build his own team and not be a junkyard.

 

[avssuc]

I'm happy that he has another chance to run a team. If he manages a cup with Edmonton he will cement his position as one of the best GMs ever, Detroit can hang its hat on that. Hopefully Yzerman manages to do the same so the Detroit brand becomes stronger.

 

[obey86]

Take a chill pill bud. With some research, your whole post now looks like pure "idiotism".

First, in the same season that Filppula was a UFA, the Sharks were slightly ahead of the Wings in the standings and sold off Douglas Murray, Michal Handzus and Ryan Clowe. Although, they did make some minor adds in Scott Hannan and Raffi Torres, that's still pretty much a net loss for a playoff team.

However, that wasn't what I meant. I was talking about selling the last year of their contracts in the offseasons prior to their last years (IE 2011 and 2012). The Hawks did this regularly with guys they knew they weren't going to be able keep in and around their 3 Cup wins.

nObOdY sElLs ThEiR uFaS wHeN yOu ArE a PlAyOfF tEaM

The Blackhawks traded players because they had to if they wanted to fit under the cap.

 

[The Zermanator]

The Blackhawks traded players because they had to if they wanted to fit under the cap.

And the results speak for themselves. Chicago decided to wrap all their money up in their star players and make the moves necessary to fill up the team around them. And they won 3 championships. In Holland's last 6-7 years as GM in Detroit, he only had 2 stars, yet he was up against the cap every single season because he chose to use up all that cap space to fill out the depth. And that was a period of consistent decline.

 

[Bondurant]

Chronology threads are great reads. Would you be interested in creating and maintaining one for Yzerman?

 

[lilidk]

Who did we get in Tatar trade .Veleno and then I am not sure . Is it Mastersemone and Viro ?

 

[Ezekial]

Who did we get in Tatar trade .Veleno and then I am not sure . Is it Mastersemone and Viro ?

Capfriendly shows the trade history for every player. The third pick is this draft.