Player Discussion The Klingberg Conundrum (Re-Sign/Trade/Lose to FA)

[Johno]

Well something could be starting to roll. Tippett has been made available for a defenseman.

 

[Smelling Salt]

Is Owen Tippett any good, aside from his draft position? He scored some goals in junior but didn't exactly tear up the league compared to some of his peers. Good AHL numbers. I wouldn't want a deal where he is the centrepiece.

 

[starsfan86]

The way Klingberg is playing lately we will be lucky to get more than a 2nd round pick.

 

[Johno]

Is Owen Tippett any good, aside from his draft position? He scored some goals in junior but didn't exactly tear up the league compared to some of his peers. Good AHL numbers. I wouldn't want a deal where he is the centrepiece.

Should still be one of the better prospects/young players we should expect in the deal. Hard to say what he could still become, but he has been stuck playing behind the deep Panthers forward core.

 

[Morry83]

Robertson-Hintz-Tippett would be an interesting line

 

[BG44]

Is Owen Tippett any good, aside from his draft position? He scored some goals in junior but didn't exactly tear up the league compared to some of his peers. Good AHL numbers. I wouldn't want a deal where he is the centrepiece.

I posted it on the other page but the short answer is don't look at the stat sheet without any context. I'm only using Robertson because they're from the same draft. I'm not saying he is Jason Robertson.

Jason Robertson
2017-18 OHL: 1.28 ppg
2018-19 OHL: 1.89 ppg
2019-20 AHL: 0.78 ppg

Owen Tippett
2017-18 OHL: 1.47 ppg
2018-19 OHL: 1.37 ppg
2019-20 AHL: 0.87 ppg

When they both make the jump to the NHL in 2020-21, 1 guy gets 4th line minutes and PP time between an extremely deep, talented forward group, and the other guy gets 1st line minutes on a team devoid of talent. He's not a perfect prospect, but you're not getting that in a trade. No one is trading a guy playing Top 6 minutes in the NHL or a high-end, top prospect for a rental. In terms of production and potential, Tippett will be in the upper range of the best available forwards that you could theoretically acquire for Klingberg. He's also the guy most likely to make an immediate impact outside of DeBrusk who I would say has less value/potential.

 

[Captain Awesome]

I posted it on the other page but the short answer is don't look at the stat sheet without any context. I'm only using Robertson because they're from the same draft. I'm not saying he is Jason Robertson.

Jason Robertson
2017-18 OHL: 1.28 ppg
2018-19 OHL: 1.89 ppg
2019-20 AHL: 0.78 ppg

Owen Tippett
2017-18 OHL: 1.47 ppg
2018-19 OHL: 1.37 ppg
2019-20 AHL: 0.87 ppg

When they both make the jump to the NHL in 2020-21, 1 guy gets 4th line minutes and PP time between an extremely deep, talented forward group, and the other guy gets 1st line minutes on a team devoid of talent. He's not a perfect prospect, but you're not getting that in a trade. No one is trading a guy playing Top 6 minutes in the NHL or a high-end, top prospect for a rental. In terms of production and potential, Tippett will be in the upper range of the best available forwards that you could theoretically acquire for Klingberg. He's also the guy most likely to make an immediate impact outside of DeBrusk who I would say has less value/potential.

"Don't look at the numbers!" *points to numbers*

I haven't watched very much of Tippett, so I deferred to the Panthers forum and found this thread: Your thoughts on Owen Tippett

I read enough to think I wouldn't want Tippett back in a trade as a primary piece, mind you I'd rather have him over Debrusk. I guess I'm worried that if a guy's primary ability is his goal scoring and he can't do it at around 22, he may never do it. He'd probably see an uptick here on pure ice time and opportunity (probably still wouldn't be used on the PP though, because veterans), but I don't know that this is the environment I'd want to continue to develop him in. If he were a different kind of player it might not be so bad, but goal scorers tend to do it at a very young age, and he's had enough NHL games, and the comments from people who watch him every day seem unimpressed, that I'd bet on him disappointing us. IMO, lots of guys on this team can theoretically score goals, what we are sorely lacking is people to make plays efficiently.

To be fair, I'm judging him very, very quickly here, but I think if he had something indicating he was going to do it that fans would be more upset about parting with him, or he wouldn't be thrust in a package to become available in the way he has. Florida is dealing from a position of strength with what is their most marketable and expendable player, which is fine, I just wouldn't want to put him as a pedestal as some huge get in trade terms. Essentially, I wouldn't want to pay a premium because he was a 10th overall pick, if he's attached with another B prospect or something, I think it'd be worth a shot.

 

[Starry Knight]

Owen Tippett is very much a cut of the same cloth as Gurianov. Fast skater with a good shot, but lacking the hockey sense to make him an elite player.

He'll be a middling 2nd-3rd line scorer for his career.

 

[Zapp]

y'all on that small dream mindset

Laine or bust imo

 

[Captain Awesome]

Owen Tippett is very much a cut of the same cloth as Gurianov. Fast skater with a good shot, but lacking the hockey sense to make him an elite player.

He'll be a middling 2nd-3rd line scorer for his career.

It's funny you mentioned this, they are right next to each other this year in xg/60. Tippett is also 13th on his team in goals for forwards, and he has played 39 games. Many people mentioned his shot isn't even really that impressive, which scared me because at least with Gurianov his shot can absolutely blow you away.

 

[M88K]

y'all on that small dream mindset

Laine or bust imo

Necas?

 

[Johno]

"Don't look at the numbers!" *points to numbers*

I haven't watched very much of Tippett, so I deferred to the Panthers forum and found this thread: Your thoughts on Owen Tippett

I read enough to think I wouldn't want Tippett back in a trade as a primary piece, mind you I'd rather have him over Debrusk. I guess I'm worried that if a guy's primary ability is his goal scoring and he can't do it at around 22, he may never do it. He'd probably see an uptick here on pure ice time and opportunity (probably still wouldn't be used on the PP though, because veterans), but I don't know that this is the environment I'd want to continue to develop him in. If he were a different kind of player it might not be so bad, but goal scorers tend to do it at a very young age, and he's had enough NHL games, and the comments from people who watch him every day seem unimpressed, that I'd bet on him disappointing us. IMO, lots of guys on this team can theoretically score goals, what we are sorely lacking is people to make plays efficiently.

To be fair, I'm judging him very, very quickly here, but I think if he had something indicating he was going to do it that fans would be more upset about parting with him, or he wouldn't be thrust in a package to become available in the way he has. Florida is dealing from a position of strength with what is their most marketable and expendable player, which is fine, I just wouldn't want to put him as a pedestal as some huge get in trade terms. Essentially, I wouldn't want to pay a premium because he was a 10th overall pick, if he's attached with another B prospect or something, I think it'd be worth a shot.

I know there's fans who watch him night in, night out, but they can be blind to their own too. Fans need to have an scapegoat, always!
The underlying numbers with Tippett suggest that he has been mostly unlucky. His analytics put him more or less on par with Sam Bennett. Expected goals for per 60 suggests that he could burst out at any point. Not dissimilar to how Hintz's numbers looked to start the season, actully.

 

[Johno]

y'all on that small dream mindset

Laine or bust imo

I like the size of your dreams

 

[Johno]

It's funny you mentioned this, they are right next to each other this year in xg/60. Tippett is also 13th on his team in goals for forwards, and he has played 39 games. Many people mentioned his shot isn't even really that impressive, which scared me because at least with Gurianov his shot can absolutely blow you away.

Similar in just a blind look at that, put the surrounding context is very different. Tippett is driving much more shots and chances, especially high danger chances than Gurianov is.

 

[Captain Awesome]

Similar in just a blind look at that, put the surrounding context is very different. Tippett is driving much more shots and chances, especially high danger chances than Gurianov is.

Out of curiosity, what are you looking at to get to that conclusion? I didn't compare them deeply, I just laughed when they were right next to each other. FWIW, Tippett's xg/60 is the same as last year with similar underachievement. The sample sizes are so small, obviously, but it made me think he's just someone with below average finishing.

 

[Satan]

 

[Satan]

I'd rather have Guryanov on my team than Tippett- Guryanov's skating pushes him over the top.

 

[Johno]

Out of curiosity, what are you looking at to get to that conclusion? I didn't compare them deeply, I just laughed when they were right next to each other. FWIW, Tippett's xg/60 is the same as last year with similar underachievement. The sample sizes are so small, obviously, but it made me think he's just someone with below average finishing.

Yeah sample sizes aren't perfect by any means and a great or a horrible game can still make a dent. Was just looking at Corsi, Fenwick, shots for/against counts, scoring chances for/against. Where Tippett takes on water is the high danger and goals against department. Exactly what a system like Stars' could help mask or even help progress to be better.

 

[Zapp]

I'd rather have Guryanov on my team than Tippett- Guryanov's skating pushes him over the top.

The man dropped 4 on Calgary and clapped a f***ing straight bomb on Vegas to send us to the cup final. I’m taking Gury all day

 

[Troy McClure]

y'all on that small dream mindset

Laine or bust imo

When Kari retired, Laine's career outlook cratered.

 

[JesusNPucks]

I’d rather the Stars have one Owen Tippett than no John Klingberg plus no assets in return for his departure.

 

[Kipper 17]

If Tippett ends up as the main piece, what is the plus? I believe Florida does not have their 1st next year.

 

[Johno]

If Tippett ends up as the main piece, what is the plus? I believe Florida does not have their 1st next year.

Yep, they have no 1st or 2nd in the upcoming draft. So perhaps some of the recent picks; Nause, Lukashevich on defense. Maybe a mid 2023 pick with someone like Kos, Smilanic.

 

[Kipper 17]

Yep, they have no 1st or 2nd in the upcoming draft. So perhaps some of the recent picks; Nause, Lukashevich on defense. Maybe a mid 2023 pick with someone like Kos, Smilanic.

I don't recognize those names so lets just trade him straight up for Necas.

 

[Johno]

I don't recognize those names so lets just trade him straight up for Necas.

If Nill is able to pull that off, by all means I’m all for it!

Wouldn’t mind Laine either to just pummel down all those sweet JRob saucessss