Ogopogo*
Guest
moneyp said:A. No, it wasn't absolutely clear that the best hockey player was in the NHL in the 20s. Bill Cook spent three years in the WCHL before moving on to the NHL and immediately won the scoring title. Newsy Lalonde, George Hay, Harry Oliver, Jack Adams, etc. The NHL of the early twenties was half of a professional league, drawing from a minimal talent pool.
B. It ain't a question now that the best college hockey players will wind up trying for a pro career. It was, at the time. The available talent pool was much thinner, the league wasn't as strong, and therefore all accomplishments measured against the opposition of that league should be taken into account. Sadly, The Pogomatic Jibber-Jabber Method doesn't even try. That would require thought.
C. My concession of Morenz isn't numerical. His scoring numbers aren't really all that dominant (only two scoring titles), but rather the universal perception of his peers that he was indeed something extraordinary, something well above the game of his era. Having never seen him, I don't feel obligated to expound beyond that. I don't have a clever formula to tell me otherwise. Or even a not-so-clever one.
Your turn, Pogo! Take the time to answer my questions! What excellent piece of evidence do you have that your assigned weights for each accomplishment means anything outside of your own little world?
I'm waiting, man! Justify your B.S., already.
I used to think you were an intelligent poster. Now I see that you are more of an ass.
Anyway, this is an "NHL's Greatest Players" list. Not a list that covers every league under the sun. Using your logic, we should also factor in the WHA, Russian league, Czech league and Swedish league. How many great players in those leagues did not come to the NHL for many years? Howe and Hull put up some pretty impressive numbers in the WHA why not include those? What about the old WHL. When the NHL was a six team league, the best players in the WHL would have been great players in a 30 team league. There are way too many leauges and way too many variables to examine or even care about when doing the ratings. Making it an NHL's greatest list means exactly that, Denneny is one of the NHL's all time greats. It is not his fault that there were other leagues at the time, he dominated his.
As well, as you may know, the bulk of the best hockey players come from Ontario and Quebec. Those are the players that made up the NHL in the early days. The West had a lot of "inferior" westerners so, it was most likely a weaker league.
It is also irrelevant how many amateur players wanted to go pro at the time. I am finding the best players in the history of the NHL. Johnny opting for med school instead of the NHL in the 20s makes no difference. He didn't have the passion for the game, he would not have been better than the greats of the 20s. Really, why not just eliminate the 20s because of the western leagues, dump the 40s because of the war, can't count the 70s because of the WHA...That must mean that anybody from the 80s to now are the best of all time. Right?
How many of Morenz's peers have you spoken with to get that assesment. You don't feel obligated to back your opinion? Perhaps because their is no foundation for it?
Numbers and eyewitnesses are what we have for evidence. Prior to all stars, we have to go with numbers. Denneny's numbers were phenomenal in the NHL's early days. Just discounting that because the NHL was a "fringe" sport is wrong. Based on that logic, today's NHL will be a "fringe" sport compared to what we will have 50 years from now.
I guess we have to admit that the Roman empire was nothing but BS. The world was pretty much a "fringe" world back then.
Denneny is one of the NHL's all time greats and should be recognized as such.
Last edited by a moderator: