Player Discussion The Henrik & Daniel Sedin Discussion - Part IV | Encore for 2019?

[fancouver]

After they draft Auston Matthews, duh..

Not happening. Vancouver will be picking him.

 

[mathonwy]

 

[mathonwy]

 

[Cogburn]

I don't think he truly believes what the URL says, but he recognizes a problem a lot of us have been commenting on for some time: A lack of depth preventing this team from being coached like other teams.

As a result, I like the Gagner, Vanek, Del Zotto and Burmistrov signings in our forward and D ranks. With a tiny bit of injury luck, and by luck I mean not being beaten with a cudgel by the hockey gods, we will be more competitive this year.

I'm not hitching my flag to the playoff wagon just yet, but anything better than "second-worst-behind-Colorado's-gongshow" is an improvement to me. Not being blown out by bad teams, then losing 3 straight one goal games is an improvement. Being able to scratch someone that is not performing is an improvement. I'm ready for an improvement.

 

[mathonwy]

I don't think he truly believes what the URL says, but he recognizes a problem a lot of us have been commenting on for some time: A lack of depth preventing this team from being coached like other teams.

As a result, I like the Gagner, Vanek, Del Zotto and Burmistrov signings in our forward and D ranks. With a tiny bit of injury luck, and by luck I mean not being beaten with a cudgel by the hockey gods, we will be more competitive this year.

I'm not hitching my flag to the playoff wagon just yet, but anything better than "second-worst-behind-Colorado's-gongshow" is an improvement to me. Not being blown out by bad teams, then losing 3 straight one goal games is an improvement. Being able to scratch someone that is not performing is an improvement. I'm ready for an improvement.

I think Hank is brilliant tactically but average strategically.

He knows what he knows incredibly well which is the cycle game.

However, he can't QB the PP worth a damn. Without someone else's direction, he would be forever stuck on the half-boards and these days, he's not quick enough nor does he have teammates skilled enough to make what he's doing effective.

I see a very heavy reliance by the Sedins on management to get the strategic stuff right. Putting into place the right hockey plays and systems AS WELL AS getting the right hockey players.

So yeah, I do think Hank believes what he said as the Sedins seems to inherently trust that management knows what they're doing and they've always been team players.

 

[Street Hawk]

But are they also aware that they are on the down Ward trend in their career?

I don't expect them to combine for more than 105 points at most this year. Lucky to break 100.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

The Sedins are toeing the company line. They're loyal soldiers to the end. What the hell else are they going to say? "Well, my brother and I are only getting older and slower, and all those years the refs laughed while we got our heads kicked in are starting to add up, so don't expect anything but the inevitable decay of time. Those guys Benning picked up are yet more veteran bandaid moves that reek of a management team that's out of ideas and are just praying someone they acquire comes to their rescue even though there's no history of them doing so!"

Not likely.

 

[mathonwy]

But are they also aware that they are on the down Ward trend in their career?

I don't expect them to combine for more than 105 points at most this year. Lucky to break 100.

Put the twins on a team that is actually well managed, well constructed and well coached and you would see a completely different pair of skaters.

Hockey players do not operate in a vacuum. Employees don't operate in a vacuum. Hire a superstar sales person into a crappy company and that superstar sales person won't be so super anymore. A crappy company breeds apathy and that's exactly the type of hockey we saw from the twins in two consecutive post TDLs. Apathetic hockey.

Yeah.. they're turning 37 and yeah, they're still the closest thing we have to a first line until proven otherwise.

What a cluster this team is and what an amazing waste of the Sedins talents...

 

[vancityluongo]

The Sedins are toeing the company line. They're loyal soldiers to the end. What the hell else are they going to say? "Well, my brother and I are only getting older and slower, and all those years the refs laughed while we got our heads kicked in are starting to add up, so don't expect anything but the inevitable decay of time. Those guys Benning picked up are yet more veteran bandaid moves that reek of a management team that's out of ideas and are just praying someone they acquire comes to their rescue even though there's no history of them doing so!"

Not likely.

Yup.

Henrik is doing his job as a captain. If he was more of a rah-rah Johnny Toews/Don Cherry favorite, these comments probably win him the Mark Messier Leadership award on the spot.

That's what you want out of the leader in the dressing room. Preaching accountability. Acknowledging that they themselves were not terrific last year (Daniel sharing Green's comments publicly). Taking kids under their wing and sheltering them from having to answer these questions themselves.

Not the Sedins' fault management can't keep a cohesive direction in mind, let alone execute on one for more than three weeks.

 

[MS]

Soooo ... it's probably time to talk about the Sedins and this is the only thread I could find to bump.

I've been one of their biggest supporters here since forever, but the way they've hit a wall is frankly astonishing.

On March 7, 2016, Daniel Sedin had 56 points in 65 games and was on pace for a 70-point season, top-20 in NHL scoring. The previous year, they were top-10 in league scoring. They were 35-36 and seemed to be aging gracefully (as most Swedes tend to) and looked solid to finish out the last two years of their contracts at reasonable value. That was only 18 months ago.

Since then ... ugh. And to start this season, they've been on the ice for 2 ES goals for in 6 games. Henrik has 2 SOG. But it's how they look that's worse. The Boston game hurt to watch. So slow, so many poor, weakly intercepted passes or weak pointless shots. Ability to cycle is pretty much gone. Total liabilities on the ice. Legs look to be gone and simply can't keep up or find ways to separate themselves to make plays.

Barring a huge rejuvenation, this has to be their last season, and you wonder when the announcement will come that turns this into a goodbye tour. Or even if they might end up being too proud to go on like this and retire mid-season.

After what they've done, you'd have hoped they could go out on a high, but that looks pretty unlikely. April 5 against Arizona might be a game to start looking into buying tickets for.

 

[Alan Jackson]

Soooo ... it's probably time to talk about the Sedins and this is the only thread I could find to bump.

I've been one of their biggest supporters here since forever, but the way they've hit a wall is frankly astonishing.

On March 7, 2016, Daniel Sedin had 56 points in 65 games and was on pace for a 70-point season, top-20 in NHL scoring. The previous year, they were top-10 in league scoring. They were 35-36 and seemed to be aging gracefully (as most Swedes tend to) and looked solid to finish out the last two years of their contracts at reasonable value. That was only 18 months ago.

Since then ... ugh. And to start this season, they've been on the ice for 2 ES goals for in 6 games. Henrik has 2 SOG. But it's how they look that's worse. The Boston game hurt to watch. So slow, so many poor, weakly intercepted passes or weak pointless shots. Ability to cycle is pretty much gone. Total liabilities on the ice. Legs look to be gone and simply can't keep up or find ways to separate themselves to make plays.

Barring a huge rejuvenation, this has to be their last season, and you wonder when the announcement will come that turns this into a goodbye tour. Or even if they might end up being too proud to go on like this and retire mid-season.

After what they've done, you'd have hoped they could go out on a high, but that looks pretty unlikely. April 5 against Arizona might be a game to start looking into buying tickets for.

Yeah, it's not been pretty to watch so far. I'm sure they still have some stretches of good play left, but overall, it looks like they've finally hit that wall.

I was always hopeful they could sustain a level of play that would justify another contract. It would be fun to see them as 3rd line/4th line players when the team gets good again, but that looks like it's gone out the window.

I'm curious to see what they'll do in retirement. You'd imagine the Canucks would like to keep them in the organization in some capacity, but I'm not sure in what role.

In the immediate future, Daniel needs, what, 12 points to reach 1000? I wonder how deep into the season we'll be when that happens?

 

[M2Beezy]

So will they even be .5 ppg this year??? (41 or less pts)

I doubt it

 

[vancityluongo]

They look... off. Are they injured? Speed was never a big part of their game, and they've certainly hit a wall hard on that front. But a big reason why most people thought they could age gracefully is their hockey sense. But I've never seen so many errant, careless passes to no one from them. Part of it is obviously that they don't have the speed to make the plays they used to, even down low on the cycle. Defenseman just close down on them and they've certainly had issues getting to loose pucks and winning battles along the boards. But even when they have time and space it feels like they make more unforced errors than ever before, which is simply bizarre.

Don't think it helps that there isn't a Hansen on the team anymore to relieve a lot of the pressure to win puck battles and maintain possession for them. But yeah, their fall so far this year has been sad to watch. Henrik looks nothing like the guy who was second in points on this team last season.

 

[Nomobo]

Soooo ... it's probably time to talk about the Sedins and this is the only thread I could find to bump.

I've been one of their biggest supporters here since forever, but the way they've hit a wall is frankly astonishing.

On March 7, 2016, Daniel Sedin had 56 points in 65 games and was on pace for a 70-point season, top-20 in NHL scoring. The previous year, they were top-10 in league scoring. They were 35-36 and seemed to be aging gracefully (as most Swedes tend to) and looked solid to finish out the last two years of their contracts at reasonable value. That was only 18 months ago.

Since then ... ugh. And to start this season, they've been on the ice for 2 ES goals for in 6 games. Henrik has 2 SOG. But it's how they look that's worse. The Boston game hurt to watch. So slow, so many poor, weakly intercepted passes or weak pointless shots. Ability to cycle is pretty much gone. Total liabilities on the ice. Legs look to be gone and simply can't keep up or find ways to separate themselves to make plays.

Barring a huge rejuvenation, this has to be their last season, and you wonder when the announcement will come that turns this into a goodbye tour. Or even if they might end up being too proud to go on like this and retire mid-season.

After what they've done, you'd have hoped they could go out on a high, but that looks pretty unlikely. April 5 against Arizona might be a game to start looking into buying tickets for.

This is probably the first post of yours that I can't find anything to disagree with. It is astonishing but maybe things will start to happen for them, still hopeful..

 

[y2kcanucks]

This entire contract for them has been a disaster (as I predicted when they were signed). Pay for past performance, but they've really only had 1 good season with these contracts and this year they really look like they're done.

I don't expect they'll be back after this season. Then again with Benning who knows, but they shouldn't be back. Unless it's just an early season slump they pretty much look done, and I get the feeling if they end up with 30-40 points this year that they'll probably just call it quits and hang 'em up. They're being used as 3rd/4th liners basically (based on ice-time) and I don't think they would be happy returning in that role while producing so little.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Should change the tittle to the tank master

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Yeah they're done... unless they suddenly start clicking with Virtanen as the 2nd line.

I'll start holding my breath now.

 

[m9]

They'll probably have a stretch where they get 20pts in 30 games coming up as things tend to even out, but I hope this is the last run. This Canucks season should have been marketed as the end by the team, but I think with tickets sales being at this level it's going to happen soon to fill some seats.

I predict in December or January they announce it will be their last year and the second half of the season is marketed as goodbye Sedins.

 

[PG Canuck]

With Boeser stepping in and looking good, him and Horvat are overtaking/have overtook the face of the marketing etc. Adding another player like Dahlin would be great for that transition. I think if the Sedins continue this kind of play, they will just call it quits - I'm sure they'll have the sense that it's time...and playing like this for another 1-2 years will only tarnish the reputation they have built among fans.

This is what we all wanted, essentially, for the Sedins to still be there around the room, but take a backseat in terms of minutes and not be the players the Canucks reply upon each game. I think it's time to see Horvat/Baertschi/Boeser/etc in bigger roles and see what happens.

 

[The Drop]

I’d agree PG but I still don’t see Baertschi ever being a top 6 player. Too streaky and just weak

 

[MikeK]

I sure hope what m9 predicts is the case. I don't want to see this drag on for another season or two. They have had a heck of a career and it's time to acknowledge it. Let the New Year be their swan song.

 

[LeftCoast]

Playing 13 minutes per game on a bad team should be enough of a signal to the Sedins that their careers are done. I don't know what they could hope to achieve by re-signing next year.

 

[canuckfan75]

Some late night , early morning thoughts after the 4-3 overtime loss to St Louis . At the begging of the year the Sedins wrote a very nice article saying they do not want to leave Vancouver and would not play anywhere else. I for one totally believe them. The Canucks have also said the same . I for one do not believe them. The Canucks want to speed up the rebuild as quick as possible. they believe if you read between the lines are missing 2 pieces 1) right handed puck moving dman 2) Another playmaking center. things that are not available thru trades or free agency only thru the draft. Travis Green is making life very hard for them as seen buy there benching in the 3rd and overtime tonight. I believe the Canucks will come to them in January about a trade at the deadline . There are a lot of teams who are cup contenders are looking for forwards. A Sedin trade would send shockwaves thru Vancouver but in the long term then leaving at the deadline would be there last great assist to help the Canucks get back into the playoffs on a ongoing basis. The return would be a 1st round pick a 2nd in another draft year a B prospect. Vancouver could also retain salary on one of them . ( only allowed 3 players per year to retain salary Loungo, Hansen already being paid by Vancouver for this year ) If they do not accept a trade I could see the healthy scratches start after the trade deadline . That would be embarrassing for them and I am not sure they would want that.

Here are Jason Bothford"s kind of hinting at my thoughts posted above


I’m sure there have been losses where the Sedins haven’t stood there waiting in the locker room, executing their self-appointed duty to be accountable every difficult night for their 19-man team
In the 12 years I’ve been around, there haven’t been many times I haven’t seen them after a loss. Tonight was one.
It’s probably the right move by them. This isn’t their team anymore. Not even close.
That message has been sent a few times this season, but never more aggressively than this evening.
The Sedins were benched with six minutes to go. The last 4:46 of which, the Canucks were in a tie game.
They didn’t play after an icing. They didn’t didn’t play overtime.
Daniel played 2:11 in the third, Henrik just one second more.
“It was a matchup, the way the game was going,” Green would explain.
“Nothing more, nothing less.”
What it means to me?
Green is absolutely in charge. What do they call it in entertainment?
Oh ya, he has full creative control.
It also means something, I do believe, about the Sedins’ future.
Because I don’t think for a second they want to retire.
The plot thickens.

 

[Knight53]

Would be nice to get assets for them, but can't see them being traded.

 

[M2B]

would a cup contending team trade anything of significant value for them at this stage in their career and based on their performance to date - unless they seriously warm up in the middle segment of the season, can't really see that.