Player Discussion The Henrik & Daniel Sedin Discussion - Part IV | Encore for 2019?

hellstick

Registered User
Nov 2, 2006
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It should be a nice negotiation. It's not like they're searching for term or dollars from a bunch of teams. They just want to play for Vancouver. I'm not going to say lowball them, but be firm on any contract negotiations. We absolutely hold all the cards here. If they want to move on, it's not like we'll be much worse off. But a one year deal at three million each gives us a lot of flexibility to maybe be creative in improving this team.
 
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Regal

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Mar 12, 2010
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Vancouver
I'd say the whereabouts are 2 years 4m each. Thats what i hope, at least.

I don't see them doing multi year deals at this point. I think both them and the team probably realize it's best to reassess where they're both at each year.
 
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MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
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Vancouver, BC
They just absolutely should not be back.

They're still good on the PP but they're liabilities at ES who are taking the sheltered minutes that should be going to younger players. Blocking those incredibly important younger players or putting them in less-than-optimal situations just so these two can tool around for another year as poor players on a poor team (getting badly outscored despite 75% o-zone starts) just for nostalgia reasons is absurd.

This team needs to get younger and faster. I've been one of the Sedins' biggest supporters from Day 1 but it's time for them to go. They're hurting the team at this point if they come back, both in the short term and the long term.
 

Wilch

Unregistered User
Mar 29, 2010
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They just absolutely should not be back.

They're still good on the PP but they're liabilities at ES who are taking the sheltered minutes that should be going to younger players. Blocking those incredibly important younger players or putting them in less-than-optimal situations just so these two can tool around for another year as poor players on a poor team (getting badly outscored despite 75% o-zone starts) just for nostalgia reasons is absurd.

This team needs to get younger and faster. I've been one of the Sedins' biggest supporters from Day 1 but it's time for them to go. They're hurting the team at this point if they come back, both in the short term and the long term.

Actually, if they're re-signed at significant cap hits at a shorter term, it might stop Jimbo throwing long term, big money contracts with NMC at Jimbo type players. If anything, I'd rather the Sedins get that money than some idiots like Lucic or Kane.
 

Mr. Canucklehead

Kitimat Canuck
Dec 14, 2002
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I'm in the camp that would mostly prefer the Sedins come back (if only because I think throwing a guy like Pettersson in with linemates like Eriksson/Sutter/Gagner is setting him up for failure), BUT - I think for anyone thinking they're going to take really sweet heart deals is forgetting who their agent is. J.P. Barry will squeeze out maximum value for the Twins, and they'll also be cognizant of the optics and ramifications of taking low value, sweetheart deals might have on their NHLPA peers. Plus, the idea of Barry negotiating with our management doesn't fill me with confidence.
 

MS

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Actually, if they're re-signed at significant cap hits at a shorter term, it might stop Jimbo throwing long term, big money contracts with NMC at Jimbo type players. If anything, I'd rather the Sedins get that money than some idiots like Lucic or Kane.

It's like levels of Inception trying to figure out what this team should be doing when you take into account Benning's stupidity.

OK, if we had competent management making logic-based decisions, the Sedins should not be back.

Given that we have Benning, yes, I agree that re-signing the Sedins to 1-year deals that burn up most of our free cap space is preferable to another Eriksson disaster (or worse, since he has more money to screw up with this time).
 

MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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I'm in the camp that would mostly prefer the Sedins come back (if only because I think throwing a guy like Pettersson in with linemates like Eriksson/Sutter/Gagner is setting him up for failure), BUT - I think for anyone thinking they're going to take really sweet heart deals is forgetting who their agent is. J.P. Barry will squeeze out maximum value for the Twins, and they'll also be cognizant of the optics and ramifications of taking low value, sweetheart deals might have on their NHLPA peers. Plus, the idea of Barry negotiating with our management doesn't fill me with confidence.

I'm perfectly comfortable with any young player playing with Eriksson.

Eriksson's contract is obviously a disaster and obviously people are frustrated by that, and I get that his play style isn't popular here ... but he's a smart player and was a good ES producer here this season while generating positive defensive results. He's still a solid middle-6 winger, just on an abysmal contract that will continue to get worse as he gets older.

If we have the following top-9 forwards here next year :

Horvat
Boeser
Baertschi
Pettersson
Leipsic
Gagner
Sutter
Eriksson
Virtanen

plus Gaunce and Archibald looking like quality 3rd line types, plus Gaudette *maybe* ready to step in, where exactly is the room to keep trundling along with the Sedins? The only possible outcome is that young players who should be getting developmental minutes and offensive zone starts will be getting the shaft so that we can continue giving these two nearly-unplayable-at-ES fossils 75% o-zone starts for no real reason other than nostalgia. It's terrible management and roster planning for a team where we're at. And that's even before Benning signs some other forward(s) this summer.

If these players come back, they're doing so to the detriment of the team.
 
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alternate

Win the week!
Jun 9, 2006
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Yeah I have mixed feelings anout the Sedins.

On one hand, they are producing at a decent rate this season, and are good examples for younger players coming in.

But of course that production comes from useage that ideally we'd see given to our new young offensive pieces. I also don't see a great fit for them as far as wingers go. Maybe Leipsic would be a good fit, but I haven't liked either Virtanen or Goldoblin and Eriksson is meh.

Id really only want them back if it was understood they would be playing on different lines. Then put most of the new pieces in Utica and give them a year to bond and make a Calder run. I don't think the Sedins would go for finishing their career on seperate lines though, so I lean towards letting this season be the high note they end on, and letting them walk.

Be pretty ballsy though for a GM to refuse to take the best players in franchise history who are also stalwarts in the community back if they wanted to return on a sweetheart deal. Might be some GMs with the steel to just walk away and face the potential backlash, but I don't think there's many.
 
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Cupless44

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Jun 25, 2014
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They just absolutely should not be back.

They're still good on the PP but they're liabilities at ES who are taking the sheltered minutes that should be going to younger players. Blocking those incredibly important younger players or putting them in less-than-optimal situations just so these two can tool around for another year as poor players on a poor team (getting badly outscored despite 75% o-zone starts) just for nostalgia reasons is absurd.

This team needs to get younger and faster. I've been one of the Sedins' biggest supporters from Day 1 but it's time for them to go. They're hurting the team at this point if they come back, both in the short term and the long term.

Also time for culture change and to pass the torch to Bo as captain.
 
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Cupless44

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Jun 25, 2014
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I'm perfectly comfortable with any young player playing with Eriksson.

Eriksson's contract is obviously a disaster and obviously people are frustrated by that, and I get that his play style isn't popular here ... but he's a smart player and was a good ES producer here this season while generating positive defensive results. He's still a solid middle-6 winger, just on an abysmal contract that will continue to get worse as he gets older.

If we have the following top-9 forwards here next year :

Horvat
Boeser
Baertschi
Pettersson
Leipsic
Gagner
Sutter
Eriksson
Virtanen

plus Gaunce and Archibald looking like quality 3rd line types, plus Gaudette *maybe* ready to step in, where exactly is the room to keep trundling along with the Sedins? The only possible outcome is that young players who should be getting developmental minutes and offensive zone starts will be getting the shaft so that we can continue giving these two nearly-unplayable-at-ES fossils 75% o-zone starts for no real reason other than nostalgia. It's terrible management and roster planning for a team where we're at. And that's even before Benning signs some other forward(s) this summer.

If these players come back, they're doing so to the detriment of the team.

Have to agree. After 3 bottom 5 finishes i dont think we need the Sedins as much as people like to think.
 
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F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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Be pretty ballsy though for a GM to refuse to take the best players in franchise history who are also stalwarts in the community back if they wanted to return on a sweetheart deal. Might be some GMs with the steel to just walk away and face the potential backlash, but I don't think there's many.

Agreed and look at the crap the Coyotes got for not bringing Shane Doan back. With this late surge by Daniel (and to a lesser extent Henrik), the Sedins did their part to show that they can still contribute enough where bringing them back won't be charity. And in reality, having Daniel and Henrik there to mentor Petersson is a good thing. It also gives Horvat and Boeser another year to establish themselves as leaders.
 

vancityluongo

curse of the strombino
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Jul 8, 2006
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If we have the following top-9 forwards here next year :

Horvat
Boeser
Baertschi
Pettersson
Leipsic
Gagner
Sutter
Eriksson
Virtanen

plus Gaunce and Archibald looking like quality 3rd line types, plus Gaudette *maybe* ready to step in, where exactly is the room to keep trundling along with the Sedins? The only possible outcome is that young players who should be getting developmental minutes and offensive zone starts will be getting the shaft so that we can continue giving these two nearly-unplayable-at-ES fossils 75% o-zone starts for no real reason other than nostalgia. It's terrible management and roster planning for a team where we're at. And that's even before Benning signs some other forward(s) this summer.

If these players come back, they're doing so to the detriment of the team.

Leipsic has had a good start, but nothing more than what Kenins did down the stretch on Bo's wing in 2015. He could just as easily flame out in the same way. Gagner should be in the press box, not getting soft offensive minutes. Sutter has finally been used as he should be - in a pure defensive role. Really, really hope we don't go back to having him deployed >50% o-zone starts. I agree with you regarding Eriksson. JV has been promising recently, but can't be relied upon in any meaningful way to play top-6 minutes. A smart GM would trade Baertschi right now, and probably Goldobin and Granlund rather than just waiving them in September anyways.

Horvat, Boeser and Pettersson. Maybe Eriksson. Those are the actual offensively capable players on the team. I don't think the Sedins taking up o-zone starts is as detrimental as when we had Horvat primed for an offensive role but had Henrik and Bonino/Sutter in front of him getting those minutes. Pettersson should step into this lineup tomorrow and be at worst, the third best offensive player, with or without the Sedins here. If the Sedins are back, that should only squeeze Gagner and Goldobin/Granlund, who should be squeezed out anyways. And if Leipsic and Gaudette are the real deal - bench them. If they're back, I think it's a given that there are different expectations. They've already transitioned from being the offensive drivers just two years ago to playing third line minutes. Their minutes shouldn't be all that different from what Jagr was playing in Calgary.

It's not the opportunity cost of playing the Sedins taking chances away from young players that has me on the fence of whether or not they should be back; it's the idea that a bottom-3 finishing team could actually bring back the exact same roster as the previous year, plus one or two rookies, and not just expect the exact same result. I'm not against tanking as a result, but living in Edmonton and seeing the results of the Oilers, I'm against tanking as a process. I really think there's a need for optimism around a team. Hard for even the most optimistic players to look around and see 95% of the same guys being brought back and think things are going to be all that different.

So if it's for the sake of roster turnover, I'll begrudgingly admit that there's some validity to not bringing the Sedins back.

Of course, the counter point to that is the very real fear of Kane/Neal/Nash, who would legitimately present an opportunity cost for playing time, along with likely albatross contracts. And the disgusting thought of seeing the Sedins wearing Leafs or Flames jerseys.
 
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iceburg

Don't ask why
Aug 31, 2003
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Things that make you go hmmm...

Aside from what now has to be considered an anomaly of a season in 14/15 where he had 48 even strength points, Henrik Sedin has averaged somewhere in the 30s for even strength points (adjusted for 82 games) over the last 5 years. He peaked in 09/10 with 85 non-powerplay points. Daniel's numbers are similar.

I completely respect what the Sedins have done for the franchise but they have been generating third line numbers for 5 years now and that's with a heavy weight towards ozone starts.

It has to be said that any other forward averaging 30-40 points with similar offensive deployment would be heavily criticized in this market.

Henrik Sedin

yeargamespointspppeven strengtheven per 82
2000-01822992020.0
2001-02823692727.0
2002-037839192021.0
2003-047642132931.3
2005-068275324343.0
2006-078281354646.0
2007-088276294747.0
2008-098282265656.0
2009-1082112278585.0
2010-118294355959.0
2011-128281275454.0
2012-134845133254.7
2013-147050183237.5
2014-158273254848.0
2015-167455203538.8
2016-178250153535.0
2017-187143142933.5
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 
Last edited:

Verviticus

Registered User
Jul 23, 2010
12,664
592
Things that make you go hmmm...

Aside from what now has to be considered an anomaly of a season in 14/15 where he had 48 even strength points, Henrik Sedin has averaged somewhere in the 30s for even strength points (adjusted for 82 games) over the last 5 years. He peaked in 09/10 with 85 non-powerplay points. Daniel's numbers are similar.

I completely respect what the Sedins have done for the franchise but they have been generating third line numbers for 5 years now and that's with a heavy weight towards ozone starts.

It has to be said that any other forward averaging 30-40 points with similar offensive deployment would be heavily criticized in this market.

Henrik Sedin

yeargamespointspppeven strengtheven per 82
2000-01822992020.0
2001-02823692727.0
2002-037839192021.0
2003-047642132931.3
2005-068275324343.0
2006-078281354646.0
2007-088276294747.0
2008-098282265656.0
2009-1082112278585.0
2010-118294355959.0
2011-128281275454.0
2012-134845133254.7
2013-147050183237.5
2014-158273254848.0
2015-167455203538.8
2016-178250153535.0
2017-187143142933.5
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

none of this makes me go "hmmm". it made me roll my eyes though
 
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Index

Fillmore, I'm on it!
Mar 24, 2013
2,644
354
Actually, if they're re-signed at significant cap hits at a shorter term, it might stop Jimbo throwing long term, big money contracts with NMC at Jimbo type players. If anything, I'd rather the Sedins get that money than some idiots like Lucic or Kane.
That's also a good point, but I'm sure Jimbos learned his lesson. I guess we will see in a few months.
 

Index

Fillmore, I'm on it!
Mar 24, 2013
2,644
354
Why exactly did we decide to "compete" again?(after Eriksson signing) Is it because of the Sedins? f*** I sure hope not.
 

Index

Fillmore, I'm on it!
Mar 24, 2013
2,644
354
I'm perfectly comfortable with any young player playing with Eriksson.

Eriksson's contract is obviously a disaster and obviously people are frustrated by that, and I get that his play style isn't popular here ... but he's a smart player and was a good ES producer here this season while generating positive defensive results. He's still a solid middle-6 winger, just on an abysmal contract that will continue to get worse as he gets older.

If we have the following top-9 forwards here next year :

Horvat
Boeser
Baertschi
Pettersson
Leipsic
Gagner
Sutter
Eriksson
Virtanen

plus Gaunce and Archibald looking like quality 3rd line types, plus Gaudette *maybe* ready to step in, where exactly is the room to keep trundling along with the Sedins? The only possible outcome is that young players who should be getting developmental minutes and offensive zone starts will be getting the shaft so that we can continue giving these two nearly-unplayable-at-ES fossils 75% o-zone starts for no real reason other than nostalgia. It's terrible management and roster planning for a team where we're at. And that's even before Benning signs some other forward(s) this summer.

If these players come back, they're doing so to the detriment of the team.
Archibald is definitely not a quality 3rd line player, certainly not in today's NHL. Take a look at Tampas third line.
 

Trelane

Registered User
Feb 12, 2013
1,987
42
Salusa Secundus
Time to part ways. Great players but to all things there is an end.

They bleed goals 5 on 5 and their PP usage would only cut into whatever is left for Pettersson and take your pick of Dahlen, Gaudette, Virtanen, Leipsic, etc. The more deserving kids should get the same 2nd unit PP time the Sedins enjoyed as rookies.

Even if they only sign one decent, low event Sutter type player for mostly 5 on 5 the Canucks should come out ahead in goals for/against for the twins overall TOI since they are no longer all that on PP to offset the even strength shortcomings.

Still enough vets, including a couple Swedes, to do the mentoring and stuff.
 
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Jessep

Registered User
Oct 27, 2017
142
37
There have been two exceptonal points made here:

1.) Sedins are sucking up the protected soft minutes that could go to the Goldobins (sic) of the world.

2.) A one year deal might block Jim from doing something dumb.

With all the forward injuries it has been an opportunity for both Goldobin and Virtanen to show they deserve more. Both have even been given opportunities with the Sedins and their "soft minutes". Neither has seized their opportunities at all. The only reason to let somebody go is having somebody better to replace them. I'm not seeing that.

I'm ok with the Sedins retiring, but if they do want to play another year I'm not seeing a reason not to re-sign them.
 

Intangibos

High-End Intangibos
Apr 5, 2010
7,809
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Burnaby
Based on what I'm seeing here it seems there is an obvious solution. Gaunce with the Sedins will be an elite top 6 line next year, book it.
 

pgj98m3

Registered User
Jan 8, 2012
1,539
1,078
Based on what I'm seeing here it seems there is an obvious solution. Gaunce with the Sedins will be an elite top 6 line next year, book it.
I have some investments you might be interested in. Oh, I can also hook you with a Nigerian prince who needs some help.
 

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