The curious case of Jake Muzzin

[KingLB]

lol. Its not like i just made that up, I understand research is hard, but i provided the research for you by saying about his offensive and defensive draws

He faces the 4th hardest competition for the defencemen on the team (so not 'usually top line'), which isn't bad, but he also gets the HUGE benefit of this

http://www.extraskater.com/players/qual_team?team=la

He takes most of his shifts with the top line (which we know is the best possession line in the league) and Doughty (1 of the best possession dmen in the league)

Hes a good player, but he has just about everything that can boost his corsi going for him

And what DD's Corsi while paired with RR? How many of Muzzin's starts were before he started playing with DD...

I hate to too my own horn. But I give the analysis Ziggy gives BEFORE him and get no credit. He even uses the same diction.

TBF saying stuff like Corsi doesn't show quality of shots isn't much analysis. In fact a lot of the people on here love stats...until they disagree with their theories. Then its well this stat isn't completely truthful, or "in this case its wrong"...aka I believe the stat until I don't like what it says. Not to mention the posters that blame the PP that has been bad for 3 years on Muzzin

 

[KINGS17]

TBF saying stuff like Corsi doesn't show quality of shots isn't much analysis. In fact a lot of the people on here love stats...until they disagree with their theories. Then its well this stat isn't completely truthful, or "in this case its wrong"...aka I believe the stat until I don't like what it says. Not to mention the posters that blame the PP that has been bad for 3 years on Muzzin

I still blame Kompon.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

He's a defenseman with potential. Joe Corvo was once a defenseman with potential. As was Kyle Quincey. I wouldn't celebrate any of his accomplishments just yet because he hasn't accomplished anything of significance or made any noteworthy contributions, but he's also not as bad as say, Randy Jones or Tom Preissing.

But if he's going to get top pairing minutes and play with an elite defenseman, then he better cut down on his unforced errors and try not to hesitate whenever he is pressured by oncoming forecheckers. He still has a lot to learn.

 

[Muzzinga]

And what DD's Corsi while paired with RR? How many of Muzzin's starts were before he started playing with DD...

Awful, obviously, since Regehr drags everyone down. Muzzins stats away from Doughty don't have much of a sample size, but they are generally better when they are apart, but that is likely purely because Muzzin would be subbed out for a Mitchell/Regehr for important defensive zone draws or something and he would come onto the ice after a pk to face 3rd line competition etc.

I think they are good partners for each other though. We are at the nice time in Doughty's development where he is so much of a beast that you can throw anyone next to him and it will work. Muzzin is still so young, so a couple of years of development and there is a chance they could flourish into the best pairing in the league

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Voynov seems to be doing okay playing with Regehr...

 

[KingLB]

He's a defenseman with potential. Joe Corvo was once a defenseman with potential. As was Kyle Quincey. I wouldn't celebrate any of his accomplishments just yet because he hasn't accomplished anything of significance or made any noteworthy contributions, but he's also not as bad as say, Randy Jones or Tom Preissing.

But if he's going to get top pairing minutes and play with an elite defenseman, then he better cut down on his unforced errors and try not to hesitate whenever he is pressured by oncoming forecheckers. He still has a lot to learn.

Except Muzzin has the physical traits that neither of those guys had. Thats what separates him. No matter what Quincey did, he was always gonna top out at a 3-4 defensemen, because he isn't big, isn't strong, and is a average to poor skater (just like Amart).

Voynov seems to be doing okay playing with Regehr...

Went from facing Getz/Perry to facing Perrault and Belesky....

 

[Muzzinga]

Voynov seems to be doing okay playing with Regehr...

Ye that pairing is odd, and is 1 that shows advanced stats aren't everything. I think everyone is happy with this pairing and the eye test shows that they have been doing well. But the stats show that they are by far our worst pairing and are both significantly better when not paired with each other. So no idea what to think there tbh

 

[me2]

This video hasn't been more applicable to anything in the history of the god damn internet.

Hanging on the NHL hall of fame is this list

1992–93 Mario Lemieux Pittsburgh Penguins
1993–94 Scott Stevens New Jersey Devils
1994–95 Ron Francis Pittsburgh Penguins
1995–96 Vladimir Konstantinov Detroit Red Wings
1996–97 John LeClair Philadelphia Flyers
1997–98 Chris Pronger St. Louis Blues
1998–99 John LeClair Philadelphia Flyers
1999–2000 Chris Pronger St. Louis Blues
2000–01 Patrik Elias New Jersey Devils
2000–01 Joe Sakic Colorado Avalanche
2001–02 Chris Chelios Detroit Red Wings
2002–03 Peter Forsberg Colorado Avalanche
2002–03 Milan Hejduk Colorado Avalanche
2003–04 Martin St. Louis Tampa Bay Lightning
2003–04 Marek Malik Vancouver Canucks

On of these is not like the others

 

[BigKing]

Muzzin has always looked to me like a guy who could be a solid #4 defensemen on a good team at best, obviously with more offense than defense. Doughty is so good though--along with playing with the Kopitar line a ton--that Muzzin can put up Top 2 Corsi stats.

People have a hard-on for Martinez because he helped win the Cup. Next season, he is out, Muzzin is in, and they don't win so Muzzin obviously sucks. Here is a dirty little secret: Martinez makes pretty much the same amount of ****** plays and, at least this season, is much softer than Muzzin. I have no issue with Alec, but I've never been against Muzzin over him because Muzzin has more potential.

When Muzzin finally figures out what interference is, he will be extremely solid.

 

[HolyShot*]

Corsi doesn't mean ****. Muzzin commits more turnovers than carter has pills. Not jeff carter. Nevermind. You know what I'm saying.

 

[HolyShot*]

Muzzin has always looked to me like a guy who could be a solid #4 defensemen on a good team at best, obviously with more offense than defense. Doughty is so good though--along with playing with the Kopitar line a ton--that Muzzin can put up Top 2 Corsi stats.

People have a hard-on for Martinez because he helped win the Cup. Next season, he is out, Muzzin is in, and they don't win so Muzzin obviously sucks. Here is a dirty little secret: Martinez makes pretty much the same amount of ****** plays and, at least this season, is much softer than Muzzin. I have no issue with Alec, but I've never been against Muzzin over him because Muzzin has more potential.

When Muzzin finally figures out what interference is, he will be extremely solid.

No way. A mart does not make the same amount of bonehead plays that muzz makes. What kings team are u watching?

 

[Primakov!]

Except Muzzin has the physical traits that neither of those guys had. Thats what separates him. No matter what Quincey did, he was always gonna top out at a 3-4 defensemen, because he isn't big, isn't strong, and is a average to poor skater (just like Amart).

I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that Alec Martinez is an average to poor skater, or that because of your perceived shortcomings he is going to top out as a 3-4 defenseman?

If it's the former then I'm going to have to disagree because skating is one of the few strong traits that he's got going for him. If it's the latter then I'm not quite sure what the point is since I think most people realize he's not at the caliber of a top pairing guy so aren't you kind of stating something obvious?

 

[HookKing]

Corsi doesn't mean ****. Muzzin commits more turnovers than carter has pills. Not jeff carter. Nevermind. You know what I'm saying.

Except the facts say otherwise. Doughty, Mitchell and Muzzin are almost identical with about 1 giveaway every other game. Voynov is worse and Greene much worse. Regehr and Martinez are much better.

Corsi actually means a lot -- that is why teams track it and its sub-variations in great detail.

 

[damacles1156]

Except the facts say otherwise. Doughty, Mitchell and Muzzin are almost identical with about 1 giveaway every other game. Voynov is worse and Greene much worse. Regehr and Martinez are much better.

Corsi actually means a lot -- that is why teams track it and its sub-variations in great detail.

Don't go using logic......Blasphemy.

 

[bmr]

Trevor Lewis and Tanner Pearson are the only ones on the team with a negative corsi.

 

[CowMix]

Where do the league's top defensemen rank in crosi?

 

[The Tikkanen]

Muzzin's egregious errors cannot be quantified. Take his play in the 3rd period that forced his teammate, Kyle Clifford, into taking a penalty. Muzzin mishandled the puck with a soft pass that led to a Ducks' counter attack that left Clifford with no option but to take down the Ducks' player in order to prevent a scoring opportunity.

Muzzin also pinches in aggressively way too often. Sometimes it works, other times it is ill timed and forces a forward to play out of position. He's been exposed when the puck is stuck inside of his own end and has had difficulty at times in getting the puck out of his own zone.

Corsi just looks at shots. It's not taking into account all of the questionable decisions the guy makes.

Agreed, I saw that bad pass and I've been noticing more and more Muzzin makes decisions that make me cringe. But, the opponents don't seem to taking advantage of his soft passes or pinching and then shooting very hide and wide. Hard to argue with the end result, as long as the Kings win it is a team game, guys are going to make mistakes and you just hope it's not a glaring one that costs the team a game.

 

[MynameisKing]

There is only one stat that I look at and that's Winning Pixie Dust! This shows that Amart leads the team in this category!

 

[bmr]

Where do the league's top defensemen rank in crosi?

Jake Muzzin is the clear #1 in the league at 28.90. Next is Brent Seabrook at 19.82. Then Dan Boyle at 18.85.

The rest (minimum of 20 games)

Duncan Keith - 18.52
Drew Doughty - 17.27
Eric Gelinas - 16.50
Nick Leddy - 16.11
Marc-Edouard Vlasic - 15.77
Torey Krug - 13.87

Pietrangelo is #15 at 10.90

Chara is #18 at 10.80

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

 

[KINGS17]

There is only one stat that I look at and that's Winning Pixie Dust! This shows that Amart leads the team in this category!

Yup, the Kings won even though Martinez pretty much got owned in the game against the Ducks.

 

[Model62]

Agreed, I saw that bad pass and I've been noticing more and more Muzzin makes decisions that make me cringe. But, the opponents don't seem to taking advantage of his soft passes or pinching and then shooting very hide and wide. Hard to argue with the end result, as long as the Kings win it is a team game, guys are going to make mistakes and you just hope it's not a glaring one that costs the team a game.

Mike Richards has made quite a few more cringe-inducing decisions the past few games than Jake Muzzin has, yet folks don't jump all over Richards.

Dustin Brown's decision making hasn't been stellar lately either (his hands have been worse), and while everyone points at Muzzin's flub costing Clifford two minutes, few note that Brown's puck mishandle at the dot lead to an out-numbered attack the other way and the Ducks' go-ahead goal.

The moral of the story is: all three of them are trying to make plays, and sometimes **** happens when you're trying to make something happen. The difference is Muzzin catches fan hell for it.

 

[MynameisKing]

Yup, the Kings won even though Martinez pretty much got owned in the game against the Ducks.

Amart Pixie Dust was in effect to a sparkling record of 14-2-3 so far this season.

 

[CowMix]

Jake Muzzin is the clear #1 in the league at 28.90. Next is Brent Seabrook at 19.82. Then Dan Boyle at 18.85.

The rest (minimum of 20 games)

Duncan Keith - 18.52
Drew Doughty - 17.27
Eric Gelinas - 16.50
Nick Leddy - 16.11
Marc-Edouard Vlasic - 15.77
Torey Krug - 13.87

Pietrangelo is #15 at 10.90

Chara is #18 at 10.80

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

Pretty much proves to me that corsi isn't a good rating for defensive quality.

 

[HYORI 1963]

Jake Muzzin is the clear #1 in the league at 28.90. Next is Brent Seabrook at 19.82. Then Dan Boyle at 18.85.

The rest (minimum of 20 games)

Duncan Keith - 18.52
Drew Doughty - 17.27
Eric Gelinas - 16.50
Nick Leddy - 16.11
Marc-Edouard Vlasic - 15.77
Torey Krug - 13.87

Pietrangelo is #15 at 10.90

Chara is #18 at 10.80

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

I'm not a Muzzin hater, but the fact that he's the clear #1 dman in the league according to corsi should tell you how misleading a corsi stat can be.

 

[etherialone]

But but but Muzzin is terrible and can't play and will never make it in the NHL and and and.....