The Babcocalypse: Babcock to Toronto

[TCNorthstars]

Would Pegula have a choice, though?

How could Bettman stop him?

 

[Frk It]

How could Bettman stop him?

Why is he calling them, if he doesn't intend to do anything about it?

 

[Vladdy84]

BTW, listening to Doug Karsh makes my head want to explode.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Why is he calling them, if he doesn't intend to do anything about it?

is he actually calling them?

 

[ap3x]

Winning against Tampa would have been overachieving. Tampa is vastly superior to us on a talent level. Switch Babcock and Cooper and you think we make it to 7 games even?

Basically it's not a fault of the coach that a team doesn't overachieve. And Babcock has pretty much gotten this team to overachieve simply by getting into the playoffs in 2013 and 14.


Coaching only goes so far. Babcock clearly had a very, very good gameplan for giving us a chance against Tampa. And we had a chance. But ultimately Tampa's skill came through. I don't know how you can look at that series and how much of an underdog we were and think it was a coaching problem that lead to us losing. Babcock is a great coach, can't expect miracles though.

Before that series, we were the obvious underdog. And most would have signed for it being a 7-game series. But don't you think you're a little bit sandbagging right there?
All in all, we didn't need to hide and had good chances to finish them. We couldn't and they capitalized on that, simple as that.

 

[SoupNazi]

 

[Frk It]

is he actually calling them?

Don't know, ask Bill Watters.

 

[Vladdy84]

Good. Buffalo Wild Wings sucks. Adios. Enjoy losing and the Anchor Bar in Buffalo.

 

[Hadoop]

Oh the suspense!

Personally I'm ok either way, though I kinda hope he leaves.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Before that series, we were the obvious underdog. And most would have signed for it being a 7-game series. But don't you think you're a little bit sandbagging right there?
All in all, we didn't need to hide and had good chances to finish them. We couldn't and they capitalized on that, simple as that.

I see it as Babcock being the #1 reason we had that chance to begin with. It's almost miraculous that a Quincey, Smith, Zidlicky defense in front of a rookie goaltender managed a couple of shutouts against that team. Look at what they did to the Rangers last game. It ain't easy to stop that Tampa team. If we had a Tyler Johnson in that series we would have won. A few years ago, Z was that guy. He was invisible this year. That alone can spell the difference between finishing a team and letting them get back in the series and turn it around. Coaching only goes so far, eventually you need someone to step up on the ice.

 

[Winger98]

Why is he calling them, if he doesn't intend to do anything about it?

Bettman's a petty dude with a long memory. When everyone was handing out those life time deals to get around the cap, most didn't think anything would be done about it. Then Bettman made sure to have something in the next CBA that punished those teams. While I doubt there's much Bettman could do right now to prevent Pegula from spending a crap ton of money on Babcock, he's begging for Bettman's beady little eyes to be trained on him to find something to hit him with down the line.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Bettman's a petty dude with a long memory. When everyone was handing out those life time deals to get around the cap, most didn't think anything would be done about it. Then Bettman made sure to have something in the next CBA that punished those teams. While I doubt there's much Bettman could do right now to prevent Pegula from spending a crap ton of money on Babcock, he's begging for Bettman's beady little eyes to be trained on him to find something to hit him with down the line.

salary cap for executives on next CBA.

 

[Winger98]

salary cap for executives on next CBA.

just put them under the player cap. Make for a nice room dynamic, eh? I know it sounds nuts, but I don't think it's far fetched with Bettman&co.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Here is his SV% the last 3 months of the season

Feb - .927%
March - .932%
April - .943%

He definitely was a big factor in us making it, especially with Jimmy's play falling off a cliff.

He had 11 starts over those three months, went 5-5-1, and got pulled twice.

He also had 6 starts when he allowed 0 or 1 goal.

I think it's fair to say Mrazek was the team MVP for March and April, and usually by definition the goalie is viewed as the most important position on the ice because if you have bad goaltending you aren't winning anything. You have to at least get competence back there to have a chance.

I think Babcock deserves at least a little bit of credit for making the move to name Mrazek as the playoff starter. It doesn't look like a tremendously tough decision in hindsight when you look at the series en toto... but man. Going with a rookie goalie over the guy the team fairly recently signed to a 5.25 mil per deal takes some stones. Sticking with that guy after he gets lit up like a Christmas Tree in game 2 took some stones.

Hypothetically, after getting bombed in game 2 what if Mrazek goes out in game 3 and gets thumped again... what are people pointing out? Babcock starts a rook for two dumpster fire performances in a row and unless Detroit comes from behind and wins that series Babcock is going to eat 100% of the blame for the series loss.

He should get some credit on the other side for that decision working out.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 4m4 minutes ago
Toronto and Buffalo in bidding war for Babcock. No decision yet. Hearing Red Wings final offer was 5 years at $4 million per.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 4m4 minutes ago
Of course, Babcock could embrace opportunity and take less to stay in Det.

 

[jkutswings]

BTW, listening to Doug Karsh makes my head want to explode.

Yeah, the midday show tends to be too rose-colored glasses for my taste.

 

[hyduK]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 4m4 minutes ago
Toronto and Buffalo in bidding war for Babcock. No decision yet. Hearing Red Wings final offer was 5 years at $4 million per.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 4m4 minutes ago
Of course, Babcock could embrace opportunity and take less to stay in Det.

kind of surprised we went that high tbh

 

[Frk It]

He had 11 starts over those three months, went 5-5-1, and got pulled twice.

He also had 6 starts when he allowed 0 or 1 goal.

I think it's fair to say Mrazek was the team MVP for March and April, and usually by definition the goalie is viewed as the most important position on the ice because if you have bad goaltending you aren't winning anything. You have to at least get competence back there to have a chance.

I think Babcock deserves at least a little bit of credit for making the move to name Mrazek as the playoff starter. It doesn't look like a tremendously tough decision in hindsight when you look at the series en toto... but man. Going with a rookie goalie over the guy the team fairly recently signed to a 5.25 mil per deal takes some stones. Sticking with that guy after he gets lit up like a Christmas Tree in game 2 took some stones.

Hypothetically, after getting bombed in game 2 what if Mrazek goes out in game 3 and gets thumped again... what are people pointing out? Babcock starts a rook for two dumpster fire performances in a row and unless Detroit comes from behind and wins that series Babcock is going to eat 100% of the blame for the series loss.

He should get some credit on the other side for that decision working out.

That 5-5-1 record had a lot to do with us allowing a ton of shots on goal, and some of our forwards slumping at the end of the year as well. Not exactly on Mrazek, as his individual numbers suggest.

But Babcock does deserve credit for his decision, Mrazek's playoff performance was stellar, and give us the best chance to advance. Not an easy decision, when you have to spurn your veteran in crunch time to do so.

 

[jkutswings]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 4m4 minutes ago
Toronto and Buffalo in bidding war for Babcock. No decision yet. Hearing Red Wings final offer was 5 years at $4 million per.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 4m4 minutes ago
Of course, Babcock could embrace opportunity and take less to stay in Det.

Babcock would be an AARP member before they sorted out that mess in Toronto. Buffalo has a lot of flexibility, some young talent, and a sweet prospect in Eichel come draft time. My ego would have to be monstrous to take the Leafs job.

 

[Frk It]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 4m4 minutes ago
Toronto and Buffalo in bidding war for Babcock. No decision yet. Hearing Red Wings final offer was 5 years at $4 million per.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 4m4 minutes ago
Of course, Babcock could embrace opportunity and take less to stay in Det.

So we're only 1m/year apart?

I think he's coming back.

 

[InjuredChoker]

So we're only 1m/year apart?

I think he's coming back.

if, if, if sabres won't offer more.

kind of hoping they do. it's time for a change.

 

[Vladdy84]

Dammit...

Just say no. Let him go.

 

[InjuredChoker]

George Malik ‏@georgemalik 3m3 minutes ago
Aaron Ward tells TSN 1040 in Vancouver that he expects a decision in the next hour or two.

 

[GBFP]

So we're only 1m/year apart?

I think he's coming back.

On base salary, no word on the bonuses. But I agree, if the Wings went up to $4M per season on a five year deal I'd have thought he would have jumped at it. If I was Ilitch/Holland I would have had it a take it or leave it offer - give him 15 minutes to decide and then pull it and wish him well elsewhere.

If he took that Wing offer and still playing Buffalo vs Toronto, he's looking to get out. Time to show some self respect here.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I see it as Babcock being the #1 reason we had that chance to begin with. It's almost miraculous that a Quincey, Smith, Zidlicky defense in front of a rookie goaltender managed a couple of shutouts against that team. Look at what they did to the Rangers last game. It ain't easy to stop that Tampa team. If we had a Tyler Johnson in that series we would have won. A few years ago, Z was that guy. He was invisible this year. That alone can spell the difference between finishing a team and letting them get back in the series and turn it around. Coaching only goes so far, eventually you need someone to step up on the ice.

I agree.

People often index success and failure through a very narrow window. Did you win or lose? Was it early or late? IMO losing in 7 to a team that goes on to steamroll their way to a Cup (or even "just" win) isn't a bad loss, regardless of which round the loss comes in. That's just the luck of the seeding.

I mean, if Detroit wins one or two rounds against lesser teams than Tampa, but then loses to Tampa in 7 in the ECFs, is that a better year? If Howard goes 4-6 in shootouts instead of 2-8 Detroit is the #4 instead of the #6 and they get the Islanders in round 1 and the Caps get Tampa (I think).

If Detroit wins that round but then either loses to the Rangers in round 2, or beats the Rangers and then still loses to Tampa in the ECFs... did that team have a "better" year than this one?

There are a bunch of tiny, tiny things that end up having huge perceptual impacts but no real, actual impacts in how a season should be evaluated. For me, Babcock getting what he got out of the Wings these past three years when the team was clearly flawed and clearly in transition speaks incredibly well of his performance.