The Babcocalypse: Babcock to Toronto
- Thread starter SoupNazi
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This team comfortably makes the playoffs if Ottawa doesn't go on a historic run. They finished with 100 points despite sputtering out the final month and a half of the regular season and losing a ton of shootouts.
I'm not saying making the playoffs are a sure thing, but they'll be in the mix right up until the end.
I guess we'll see, personally I think coaching in general is overrated in professional sports.
I don't think the team will be remarkably better or worse unless roster changes or significant injuries happen.
Chex LeMeneux
Registered User
Not sure if that's directed at me, but if it is (and because I know other people have put words in my mouth tonight, which is incredibly annoying I might add) I feel the need to defend myself. I never once blamed Babcock for all this team's problems. Hell, I didn't even say Babcock was a bad coach. I just feel, as do others, he hasn't played certain people to their strengths. That's just my opinion, and one you're unlikely to move me from.
Saying that does not mean that Babcock has definitely made these guys suck, nor did I mean to imply that. I just want to see these kids given a proper chance before writing them off, and I feel Babcock has not. That and his tendency to piss off certain people, which may or may not be true (though evidence has led me to believe it is), are my biggest gripes with him. That is hardly blaming him for everything that's wrong with this team.
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SpookyTsuki
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Lol, No the only season Babcock took this team to the playoffs was 2013.
19 for president
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Babs is a very good coach. He is possibly the best coach in the NHL, but that does not mean he is still right for the Wings. He tends to play a very defensive minded game. Part of this is because of the teams he has been presented with and part of that is preference. When the Wings were at their best from 06-09, they played Babs system, but also had incredibly high skilled players that could score out of that system. You had a prime Franzen, Zetterberg, Hossa, Kronwall, Datsyuk. You also had one of the greatest dman of all time in Lids, still looking like an elite player. You had some solid up an coming players in Hudler, Flip, Helm, Abby that helped fill in the gap. You also had some solid complimentary players in Raffy, Homer, Ozzie, and Hasek (not prime but still very good). You had Holland players (skilled puck possession guys) that could still play Babs system.
This current group of Wings players don't have the ability to mix Babs and Hollands systems and make a cup winning team. Our elite two way players ie Dats/Z/Kronner all spend half the season hurt. Our young guys like Tats, Jurco, Sheahan, and Nyquist are not elite two way players. They are also wingers outside of Sheahan. Babs system will eek us into the playoffs, but Z/Dats/Kronner/ Franzen will all be too hurt by that point for us to go far. Our young guns are simply not at the point yet where they can drive the team. They may never get there either. After 6 straight years of 1st/2nd round exits what makes anyone think that the Babs/ Holland team is suddenly going to deliver?
Babs is a coach that can take a very good team and turn them into a championship team. He gives ties to the vets, he coaches a defensive system (which ultimately does win cups), he gets the most out of his bottom 6 players (Abby, Clears, Glenny, Helm, Drake etc). Sadly this Wings team isn't at that point anymore. We may get a miracle run during the rebuild process but I doubt it'll be under Babs. His system is just too wearing mentally and physically for an average team to go on a run under. I don't think he is a coach that a young team will really grow under (which why I think the Sabres deal will bomb horribly). Give him a team like St. Louis, Florida, Philly, even Pitts and I think you see him do really well. Much like Scotty I don't think Babs is a rebuild coach.
With that said I think Holland needs to really step up this off season and start making changes. As much of the 6 year drought falls on him as it does babs. I don't see this team winning a cup again for a bit but he could significantly speed up the process with a good off season. We need to stop putzing and get this defense rebuilt both via free agency and the draft. The only two guys that should be safe are Kronner and Dekeyser. Maybe without Babs around Holland starts moving again and gets players he wants. Blash will be a new voice and I think that should help reinvigorate some of the Vets and help the youth on this team. He knows how to get Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Mrazek, Oulette, Marchenko, Jurco to play well. He knows how Pulu has to be deployed to be successful. I'm not so concerned with making the playoffs as I am the team growing next year. There will be bumps, but bumps happen with young teams. Honestly I think this team still makes the playoffs sans Babs and with Blash but even if they don't I'm ok with that. The NHL is made so that you have to be bad to get good. With that said the wings may only need one or maybe two bad seasons if they do it right because Holland has already built a solid supporting core. We just need that future number 1 center and number 1 d. Its sort of a backwards build, but really they've got a great winger core and I think a very solid D core with Marchenko, Dekeyser, and Oulette. We just need the offensive stud dman and great two way center to compliment them.
This current group of Wings players don't have the ability to mix Babs and Hollands systems and make a cup winning team. Our elite two way players ie Dats/Z/Kronner all spend half the season hurt. Our young guys like Tats, Jurco, Sheahan, and Nyquist are not elite two way players. They are also wingers outside of Sheahan. Babs system will eek us into the playoffs, but Z/Dats/Kronner/ Franzen will all be too hurt by that point for us to go far. Our young guns are simply not at the point yet where they can drive the team. They may never get there either. After 6 straight years of 1st/2nd round exits what makes anyone think that the Babs/ Holland team is suddenly going to deliver?
Babs is a coach that can take a very good team and turn them into a championship team. He gives ties to the vets, he coaches a defensive system (which ultimately does win cups), he gets the most out of his bottom 6 players (Abby, Clears, Glenny, Helm, Drake etc). Sadly this Wings team isn't at that point anymore. We may get a miracle run during the rebuild process but I doubt it'll be under Babs. His system is just too wearing mentally and physically for an average team to go on a run under. I don't think he is a coach that a young team will really grow under (which why I think the Sabres deal will bomb horribly). Give him a team like St. Louis, Florida, Philly, even Pitts and I think you see him do really well. Much like Scotty I don't think Babs is a rebuild coach.
With that said I think Holland needs to really step up this off season and start making changes. As much of the 6 year drought falls on him as it does babs. I don't see this team winning a cup again for a bit but he could significantly speed up the process with a good off season. We need to stop putzing and get this defense rebuilt both via free agency and the draft. The only two guys that should be safe are Kronner and Dekeyser. Maybe without Babs around Holland starts moving again and gets players he wants. Blash will be a new voice and I think that should help reinvigorate some of the Vets and help the youth on this team. He knows how to get Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Mrazek, Oulette, Marchenko, Jurco to play well. He knows how Pulu has to be deployed to be successful. I'm not so concerned with making the playoffs as I am the team growing next year. There will be bumps, but bumps happen with young teams. Honestly I think this team still makes the playoffs sans Babs and with Blash but even if they don't I'm ok with that. The NHL is made so that you have to be bad to get good. With that said the wings may only need one or maybe two bad seasons if they do it right because Holland has already built a solid supporting core. We just need that future number 1 center and number 1 d. Its sort of a backwards build, but really they've got a great winger core and I think a very solid D core with Marchenko, Dekeyser, and Oulette. We just need the offensive stud dman and great two way center to compliment them.
2013/2014 without Babcock, and they don't make the playoffs.
2014/15 isn't quite as clear. Even Babcock was surprised how big of s step forward some players on the team had taken.
I suppose it might be a moot point though. We won't know truly how good he is until he's gone.
No.
I think babs is the best in the business who creates 5 or 6 pts above what any other coach could do.
I think the wings minus babcock would be less successful, I believe he has a pisitive effect and evidently so does.buffalo to the tune of 50 million dollars.
Unfriendly Ghost
Kasper
I might be alone here, but... good. I'd rather the team move on and rebuild than watch the Wings get pounded by TB with a mediocre roster.
Common now... that series could have went either way in my opinion.
Personally, I'm all on board the rebuild on the fly train. Would hate seeing a Wings-tank.
SoupNazi
Serenity now. Insanity later.
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Lil Sebastian Cossa
Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
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Not only that... having an opportunity to go up 3-1 in the series, having an opportunity to close the series out at home in game 6, and controlling play for over 2 periods in game 7. Those all = pounding.
Or put another way... the Wings had a chance to beat the team with the best home record in hockey three times in their house... and if Tatar doesn't flub those two great chances that he had, they probably do.
KJoe88
Forever Lost.
SpookyTsuki
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Yes. Mrazek carried the team to the playoffs this year, Not Babcock, Sorry its facts
Last year was Nyquist and his goal scoring streak, You could argue that he told Nyquist to shoot more though.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
mrazek had 18th best sv% this season of all goalies who played as many or more minutes than him during the regular season. actually everyone ahead of him played more than mrazek.
mrazek didn't carry red wings during the regular season. of those 17 goalies ahead of mrazek, only 2 were on the same team. mrazek provided average goaltending.
carey price carried the habs. mrazek didn't carry red wings.
for nyquist there can be made an argument.
mrazek didn't carry red wings during the regular season. of those 17 goalies ahead of mrazek, only 2 were on the same team. mrazek provided average goaltending.
carey price carried the habs. mrazek didn't carry red wings.
for nyquist there can be made an argument.
SpookyTsuki
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On a phone sorry for any mistakes
So you think that Tommy M would have won those games on that detroit team? Coreau? Don't think so mrazek kept them in the game at all times and if he had a bad one he easily dominated the next game
I hope you don't think that Tommy M a carrer ahl goalie our 4th string would have won those games
InjuredChoker
Registered User
so you think we should have that low expectations that providing average goaltending is enough to 'carry' the team?
every team in the league has better goalie(s) than coreau and mccollum. i'd expect my team to have better goalies than couple of AHLers. no coach would've made the playoffs with those guys.
Frk It
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Here is his SV% the last 3 months of the season
Feb - .927%
March - .932%
April - .943%
He definitely was a big factor in us making it, especially with Jimmy's play falling off a cliff.
joe89
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I think Mrazek was huge for us, but it helped make him look even better by the fact Howard couldn't stop a beachball after his injury. I remember at one point, maybe late March, we had one of the three worst team save percentages in the league dating back to the trade deadline. Obviously due to Howard's abysmal play.
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