News Article: The Athletic: Mitch Marner's re-emergence alongside Nazem Kadri makes the Leafs scary again

[Macallan18]

What fans project as "stubbornness" is more likely "patience" and having more information and responsibility with which to make decisions. Fans for over a decade drooled over the Wings' prospect development strategy that was based on... wait for it... patience and process.

So of course a frustrated fan will lash out and demean a, as you put it, wizard of a coach, by just referring to it as a character flaw. Unfortunately, many fans need to coexist with other fans who are not knowledgable enough to consider they are unknowledgeable. It wouldn't be so bad if they'd stop @'ing me with nonsensical evaluations of the character of one of the best coaches of our generation.

a one word response:

Polak

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

a one word response:

Polak

Polak ate tougher minutes so Carrick and Borgman could get OZ starts, bought more time to be patient with Dermott in the AHL, and when injuries strike or Dermott goes into a stretch of bad games, will be there to eat those tougher minute again to help get his confidence back on track.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

I think there is a chance we will re-sign JVR. Dumping Martin, Lupul off the books, Kommy either gone or signed cheap, Bozzie gone, Polak gone, all of that frees up some cash.
Wouldn't be shocked to see JVR signed.

Once you have one guy on LTIR, it really doesn't matter if you have two or three. Horton is the problem since he can't be traded due to his non insured contract. How LTIR affects the cap in the Leafs case is when the performance bonuses are paid. The Leafs need all their cap in 2019/20 when they have big RFAs signings. As a result, the PF of 2017/18 (5m) and 2018/19 (4.5,) should be paid next year. AND Horton's salary has to show on the opening day roster (5.25m), to make the PF timeline works. That only leaves about 9m for in UFA signings in 2018/19. That's one reason I think JVR is kinda "unaffordable".

 

[CanadasTeam]

What fans project as "stubbornness" is more likely "patience" and having more information and responsibility with which to make decisions. Fans for over a decade drooled over the Wings' prospect development strategy that was based on... wait for it... patience and process.

So of course a frustrated fan will lash out and demean a, as you put it, wizard of a coach, by just referring to it as a character flaw. Unfortunately, many fans need to coexist with other fans who are not knowledgable enough to consider they are unknowledgeable. It wouldn't be so bad if they'd stop @'ing me with nonsensical evaluations of the character of one of the best coaches of our generation.

Well said. We can't ignore the fact the Leafs are where they are today because of Babcock.

Some fans don't realize the "pain" they think the coach inflicts on this team for being stubborn is inadvertent, but sadly it's all part of the process and necessary -- it's what makes him a great coach.

 

[Mess]

Getting Leafs 2nd line going with the line-up changes with the addition of Mitch joining it, has restored the Leafs offense to dangerous again.

Babcock did it to get Kadri going after going 20 games with just 1 goal and 1 assist, and it looks to be having better results than even he could have imagined.

 

[ITM]

I suggest he, and other fans are sick of the Bobcat can't be wrong or criticized. I'll accept he is a wizard of a couch. His main flaw is his stubborness in the selection and deployment of players.
Well, lets look at his history, did he ever exhibit this trait in Detroit? Hell yes! Exactly the same issues accroding to the fans.
So why should we cut him slack on this point?
If the emperor has not clothes, he has no clothes.

In appealing to the notion of a larger plan, some of us have been acknowledging that while there are from time to time, (seemingly) peculiar on-ice personnel decisions and game situation strategies, that those realities aren't evidence of an absence of a larger asset management plan. More's the point, pointing out the positive while acknowledging inconsistencies isn't indicative of our cognitive dissonance.

You've said, the Emperor has no clothes? Are you sure you understand what that means? In the unlikely event you don't and I've misunderstood your application, it simply conveys an inability or unwillingness to acknowledge the truth of a situation.

So which truth isn't being acknowledged by the pro-Babcock side? Is it that he's made mistakes? Or that he's prone to a type of mistake? Is it that he's much, much, much less of a coach than the perceived absence of preferred appropriate criticism from the anti-Babcock (albeit pro-TML) side sees to their liking? Is it that the club is miles away from where it could be if Babcock weren't the coach?

I mean you have to have something tangible to base your criticism on other than repeating that the pro-Babcock side won't criticize the coach at all or don't criticize the coach enough or somehow demand that other fans can't criticize the coach, all of which has absolutely no basis in reality.

And if the basis of the anti-Babcock side is something akin to "knowing" that he thinks more of himself than he's entitled to i.e. The Emperor...Well then that's a whole big box of crazy that we need to tape up and leave in the attic.

 

[thewave]

Been saying Babcock has been running lines to bolster defense over offense and help slow down their production for contractual / disciplinary type reasons since near the start of the season.

 

[Macallan18]

And if the basis of the anti-Babcock side is something akin to "knowing" that he thinks more of himself than he's entitled to i.e. The Emperor...Well then that's a whole big box of crazy that we need to tape up and leave in the attic.

Yup, go to the personal attacks.
We've said repeatedly what the issues are, line and player selections.
Polak. Martin. Kommy on the second line.
One more personal attack and I'll just ignore you.

 

[Apotheosis]

Now only if we can get Babcock to put someone else instead of Hyman beside Matthews and Nylander..

 

[thewave]

Yup, go to the personal attacks.
We've said repeatedly what the issues are, line and player selections.
Polak. Martin. Kommy on the second line.
One more personal attack and I'll just ignore you.

The fans have seen the Komarov issue. We have talked about the Polak issue and the Martin issue repeatedly. We have talked about the Bozak issue and its relationship to Marner as well. The problems, we the "stupid and ignorant" fans have been largely in the right calling out all issues and when Babcock gets around to implementing our consensus, positive results followed.

 

[Clark4Ever]

It's as if the fans knew what they were talking about. Crazy. For our next trick we'll keep Roman Polak in the press box and keep Komarov on the fourth line!

It's insane isn't it?

I love Babs, but he really should have made those adjustments months ago. We might have been battling for first place in the conference by now.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I suggest he, and other fans are sick of the Bobcat can't be wrong or criticized. I'll accept he is a wizard of a couch. His main flaw is his stubborness in the selection and deployment of players.
Well, lets look at his history, did he ever exhibit this trait in Detroit? Hell yes! Exactly the same issues accroding to the fans.
So why should we cut him slack on this point?
If the emperor has not clothes, he has no clothes.

No kidding. I can and do think Babcock is the best coach in the world, and I would never in a million years try to tell him what to do.

That said, I can still fail to understand, or outright disagree with some of the things he says and does, and talk about it. It's fine. It doesn't mean I think I'm better or smarter than him.

 

[ITM]

Yup, go to the personal attacks.
We've said repeatedly what the issues are, line and player selections.
Polak. Martin. Kommy on the second line.
One more personal attack and I'll just ignore you.

Excuse me?
What personal attack would that be? Please provide the quote you've defined/preferred as a personal attack.

 

[therealkoho]

nobody but nobody knows more about the NHL and coaching in that league than LeaFlanders...I wonder if Shanny knows this?

 

[TMLegend]

When Kadri/Market slow down( and they will, because they're both streaky), are the Leafs still scary? I mean, it's been what? 5 games? I can't believe such a hot take got published by the athletic. This is something you publish after like 1/2 a season at least.

 

[Mess]

The best thing about this new trio clicking is it allows the Leafs to know what might now be their top 2 lines as they would be the same as present.

Then with all your pending UFAs it now allows the Leafs to rebuild their bottom 6 next year, as before they would have been needing new linemates for Mitch.

 

[Superstar]

Bruce Boudreau, coach of the Wild says he's terrified of Marner because he's so good...one thing about life is most people fear uncertainty...Marner brings disruption and uncertainty to the opposition whenever he's on the ice because he's so dangerous offensively...you don't know what he sees and what he's going to do with the puck. Once he starts getting some meat on those bones and strengthen his core and legs, watch out!

 

[Razz]

It's great to see the improved offense no doubt, but make no mistake this change comes with a cost of defense. That's why Babcock didn't do this earlier. We need a new shutdown 3rd line now.

 

[Razz]

It's insane isn't it?

I love Babs, but he really should have made those adjustments months ago. We might have been battling for first place in the conference by now.

I don't think it's that simple. Babcock deliberately changed to a defense first mode during the tough part of the Schedule. It's no accident the offense dried up overnight and then resumed much in the same way.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Yea man you're such a legendary coach.

Dont post on a discussion board if you dont want to have discussions, its that simple. If you dont want fans to have opinions what are you doing here?

 

[IPS]

Another plus, we don’t have to hear the word “sheltered” anymore for Marner, it was his two linemates, who’ve been “sheltered” for years, prior to and after Mitch...again last night those two lead the team in offensive zone starts. Marner seems to be doing just fine against tougher matchups, having linemates helps.

The one poster who was referring to Marner as a "sheltered 3rd line winger" has had a serious bias against him since day 1.

 

[Menzinger]

It does look like the “move Komarov to the 4th line crowd” was proven 100% correct.

Kadri thrives with skilled guys - never understood why some folks thought that wouldn’t be the case. The Kadri-Marner duo looks so lethal out there.

 

[Menzinger]

But it's not about being quick to judge. We've seen Roman Polak play meaningful minutes. We've seen Komarov start OT, be on the PP and play in the top 6. We've seen Zach Hyman play beside Matthews for every single game of Matthews' career thus far. Babcock isn't a genius. He's stubborn and quite frankly, the media and fans seem to know better than he does when it comes to lineups and roster management. I'm not saying he can't coach, he's a great coach structurally, but he's absolutely lost when it comes to what actually benefits the team. It takes him far too long to figure out that Polak is a #7 D, that Komarov is a fourth line player whos minutes should be cut in half, that Marner needed to be put on the Kadri line, that Kapanen is much more effectivethan Matt Martin. The only thing he hasn't figured out yet is taking Hyman off the first line. The fact that he hasn't even tried it for ONE game should tell you something. It's as if Carlyle is still here sometimes. One thing all those guys have in common is that they're all physical, low talent players. And he loves them.

I do think Babcocks stubbornness keeps him from making some decisions sooner than he should.

However, he’s also a coach who wants to win above all else and eventually when some things just aren’t working (Leo on the third line, Martin having a roster spot), and he’s willing to eventually learn and adapt. I just wish he’d be a bit quicker at it lol

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I like Babs but it's not right to excuse taking too long to make an obvious change as "patience"

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

It's great to see the improved offense no doubt, but make no mistake this change comes with a cost of defense. That's why Babcock didn't do this earlier. We need a new shutdown 3rd line now.

Not really. Marner makes the line stronger defensively