News Article: The Athletic: Mitch Marner's re-emergence alongside Nazem Kadri makes the Leafs scary again

Polaris1010

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Mar 23, 2017
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we have plenty of options to try to ice 4 solid lines without gluing Hyman to Mathews , Babs just refuses to explore them and every knows who is by far his favorite player lol

but then again who are we to discuss/assess what Babcocks intentions are since according to Mavis we're no where near qualified enough to have an opinion how on this team is coached/managed
Well, you got me there. That is a good point. That Babcock should be more open minded and experimental.

It is like what the late Apple Computer guy Steve Jobs said about the Microsoft guy Bill Gates back in the day.

Steve Jobs said Bill Gates should have taken more acid when he was younger, would have helped him make better computer products. Loosen up, live a little, take more drugs!

Steve Jobs had a point. Micro$oft, products are not loved like most Apple products by its users. That imagination is what the die hard Apple user sees in this Apple product I would believe. Steve Jobs would do a lot of weird things on his own to make his products better, going off in tangents that could lead somewhere or nowhere.

The NHL is different. The NHL and old school coaches like Babcock and old school organizations like the Maple Leafs, will not experiment generally, no matter what.

Or take drugs.

:rolly:
 

frizzer1

Registered User
Oct 19, 2013
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we have plenty of options to try to ice 4 solid lines without gluing Hyman to Mathews , Babs just refuses to explore them and every knows who is by far his favorite player lol

I could agree with the posters who are telling us that babcock is a great coach who knows exactly what to do at all times, if..............he had tried another winger, any winger, with Matthews and Nylander.
From the first scrimmage in training camp it has been Hyman...no one else has been tried except for that brain cramp he apparently had when Martin was there for half a game.
Had he tried someone else and had it turned out that Hyman was the best option,then I would have no complaints..I could understand it....
But he has not and apparently will not do it.
Why ? I have no idea.....but it does tell you a lot about babcock.
If you like the approach of never trying it..then good for you.
I'm not in that camp.
 

TML11

Registered User
Feb 11, 2017
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Polak ate tougher minutes so Carrick and Borgman could get OZ starts, bought more time to be patient with Dermott in the AHL, and when injuries strike or Dermott goes into a stretch of bad games, will be there to eat those tougher minute again to help get his confidence back on track.
You are right. With a team this young (who are not accustomed to playing a long 80+ game season) Babcock needs to have patience with his young players. They don't need to go all full tilt all season. The playoffs are a whole new show for them. Polak/Komarov/Moore...all have roles...perhaps the AHL players weren't ready -- the worst thing to do is rush talented young players...look at McDavid, A CAPTAIN at 18? all those first draft picks pushing them through the season, are you kidding? Where has it got the Oilers??
 

Tonka

OFFSIDE
Apr 8, 2007
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Why has it taken so long for coaches to realize this - Kadri needing skilled players on his line.
 

MJ65

Registered User
Jul 12, 2009
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We all can see the difference - Mitch on Bozak's line Vs Mitch on Kadri's line

Is he going to be even better on Matthews line?
 

LeafFever

Registered User
Feb 12, 2016
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I do like our chances in the playoffs. Our players will be more rested and Babcock will give them plenty of ice-time.
Boston and Tampa peaked too early.
 
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Cap'n Flavour

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Mar 8, 2004
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Naz's hot streak was in spite of Leo
then quite frankly, Naz'z turn around is in spite of Mitch.

Uhhh what? Sorry but this doesn't make sense.

There is no difference. He makes it more of an offensive threat and that't about it which I guess in a round about way helps them defensively.

It's not really roundabout. Spend more time in the offensive zone and even if you're worse in your own end you can put up better defensive numbers. It's the whole reason why the league is moving away from coveting big crease-clearing plugs to puck-moving D and why Rielly-Dermott could work reasonably well together (handedness aside).

Similarly, I don't see the need for a shutdown line if we have three lines that can maintain possession and are threats to score.
 
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Willchel Marlynder

(philer bozel)
Jul 15, 2010
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Well said. We can't ignore the fact the Leafs are where they are today because of Babcock.

Some fans don't realize the "pain" they think the coach inflicts on this team for being stubborn is inadvertent, but sadly it's all part of the process and necessary -- it's what makes him a great coach.

Leafs are where they are for a multitude of reasons. Matthews, Nylander, and Marner have a lot to do with taking a last place team (coached by Babcock) to the playoffs.

As for the "pain" you're talking about, that has nothing to do with what people are talking about. Having a 4th liner in Komarov in the top 9 isn't pain that is necessary to make this team better. Nor is playing one of the league's worst defense man in Polak when other options are available. Those are bad decisions not moves that are necessary for team improvement. Infact, once those issues were dealt with I would say the team improved more than it did when those issues were prevalent.
 

Superstar

"Be water, my friend."
Jun 25, 2008
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I could agree with the posters who are telling us that babcock is a great coach who knows exactly what to do at all times, if..............he had tried another winger, any winger, with Matthews and Nylander.
From the first scrimmage in training camp it has been Hyman...no one else has been tried except for that brain cramp he apparently had when Martin was there for half a game.
Had he tried someone else and had it turned out that Hyman was the best option,then I would have no complaints..I could understand it....
But he has not and apparently will not do it.
Why ? I have no idea.....but it does tell you a lot about babcock.
If you like the approach of never trying it..then good for you.
I'm not in that camp.

Babcock mentioned when he was in Detroit, Datsyuk was upset at him and went to talk to him...he gave it to Babcock and told him don't play him with 2 other players who like to have the puck because he also likes to have the puck...he told Babcock to put a player in there who is good at the boards and at puck retrieval. Hyman is not a detriment to Matthew's line...he is tenacious, durable, an excellent skater and quite strong...Matthews line is working very well... and at the same time allows Babcock to have some scoring depth in the 3rd and 4th lines. I'm sure if we have another player that's similar to Hyman, but with better hands and vision, he would be playing with Matthews and Nylander, but we don't. He's not as stubborn as some folks claim he is, and knows more about each player than we do and has far more patience than any of us here. If you pay attention in games where the team is not playing very well or certain lines are not going, he will make adjustments. He had also made adjustments by putting Marner with Kadri, although it seems like some folks on these boards like to take credit for that when it has nothing to do with folks here...some here seem to know more about hockey than Babcock and Datsyuk.
 
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hotpaws

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Nov 21, 2009
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Babcock mentioned when he was in Detroit, Datsyuk was upset at him and went to talk to him...he gave it to Babcock and told him don't play him with 2 other players who like to have the puck because he also likes to have the puck...he told Babcock to put a player in there who is good at the boards and at puck retrieval. Hyman is not a detriment to Matthew's line...he is tenacious, durable, an excellent skater and quite strong...Matthews line is working very well... and at the same time allows Babcock to have some scoring depth in the 3rd and 4th lines. I'm sure if we have another player that's similar to Hyman, but with better hands and vision, he would be playing with Matthews and Nylander, but we don't. He's not as stubborn as some folks claim he is, and knows more about each player than we do and has far more patience than any of us here. If you pay attention in games where the team is not playing very well or certain lines are not going, he will make adjustments. He had also made adjustments by putting Marner with Kadri, although it seems like some folks on these boards like to take credit for that when it has nothing to do with folks here...some here seem to know more about hockey than Babcock and Datsyuk.

yup , Babs loves to tell the story how Dats came into his office and threw a hissy fit and cried like a baby for weeks until Babs put an unskilled energy player on his line

but what i don't understand is what does Babs story have to do with Mathews ? i have never heard Mathews say he wants to play with 4th line energy slugs nor does Hyman actual get the puck to Mathews at a high rate like Babs keeps saying he does

also AM isn't anything close to a puck dominant player so i'll say again i have no idea what Babs cute little story has to do with Mathews
 

frizzer1

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Oct 19, 2013
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...Matthews line is working very well.
... I'm sure if we have another player that's similar to Hyman, but with better hands and vision, he would be playing with Matthews and Nylander, but we don't..

Matthews line is working well? Compared to what?
We have no idea of what that line could be with another winger because we've
never had another winger..
And Kapanen's blazing speed would work on the forecheck on that line and he has skill..
 
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Superstar

"Be water, my friend."
Jun 25, 2008
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yup , Babs loves to tell the story how Dats came into his office and threw a hissy fit and cried like a baby for weeks until Babs put an unskilled energy player on his line

but what i don't understand is what does Babs story have to do with Mathews ? i have never heard Mathews say he wants to play with 4th line energy slugs nor does Hyman actual get the puck to Mathews at a high rate like Babs keeps saying he does

also AM isn't anything close to a puck dominant player so i'll say again i have no idea what Babs cute little story has to do with Mathews

You're right, Matthews has nothing to do with Datsyuk...no two players are exactly alike, same goes for any 2 lines in hockey...what the Datsyuk anecdote teaches about is player-to-player interaction and line dynamics being key to having a successful line, that sometimes stacking a line with your highest point producers and players with a similar skill set might not be the best option. Hyman might not make perfect passes to Matthews for tap-ins or convert on every chance he gets (though, you wouldn't want him to be your main shooter when you have Matthews and Nylander as your other options), but he's a disruptive force to the opposition and creates space for his linemates. It's quite interesting that Matthews leads the NHL in even strength goals since joining the league, and that the most common player by his side is Hyman.
 

Superstar

"Be water, my friend."
Jun 25, 2008
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Matthews line is working well? Compared to what?
We have no idea of what that line could be with another winger because we've
never had another winger..
And Kapanen's blazing speed would work on the forecheck on that line and he has skill..

LOL...from last place to making the playoffs while scoring 40 goals as a rookie, now this season, 24 of his 26 goals are 5v5...and guess what? Hyman is the most familiar player playing alongside Matthews all that time. And with Nylander's improved overall play this season, and the Leafs being where they are in the standings...are you saying the Matthews line is not working well? What have you been watching? Thinking that Kapanen if given the chance to play with Matthews last year and this year would have improved Matthews' line is fallacious. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing how Kapanen would do playing along Matthews and Nylander.
 
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hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
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You're right, Matthews has nothing to do with Datsyuk...no two players are exactly alike, same goes for any 2 lines in hockey...what the Datsyuk anecdote teaches about is player-to-player interaction and line dynamics being key to having a successful line, that sometimes stacking a line with your highest point producers and players with a similar skill set might not be the best option. Hyman might not make perfect passes to Matthews for tap-ins or convert on every chance he gets (though, you wouldn't want him to be your main shooter when you have Matthews and Nylander as your other options), but he's a disruptive force to the opposition and creates space for his linemates. It's quite interesting that Matthews leads the NHL in even strength goals since joining the league, and that the most common player by his side is Hyman.
the Dats anecdote teaches us nothing and Babs keeps regurgitating it to deflect criticism away from his stubborn refusal to try another winger in Hymans place and no one's saying to stack your line with your 3 most talented players like the Hyman's defenders keep repeating

what's interesting is watching Mathews unbelievable shot , not some passive attempt by you trying to give credit for his production to Hyman

i keep reading our fans on this board whining how little credit AM gets on the main board and i have no idea why they're worried about other team fans opinion of Mathews when Leaf fans like you belittle him by saying he's a product of Hyman elite skill set
 
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highslot

Registered User
Jul 10, 2012
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Babcock is stubborn. But there's a method to his decisions. And its not just him calling all the shots.

Name 3 coaches you wo7ld prefer the leafs to be coached by. Id like to know given your disdain for babcock.

jumping in to answer this, i have to qualify that i do not hate babs and he is the best available we could get. i also think he has his flaws.

5 better: quenneville, sullivan, gallant, hitchcock, cooper. argument for sutter and torts.
 

The Kessel Run

Registered User
Jun 7, 2011
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jumping in to answer this, i have to qualify that i do not hate babs and he is the best available we could get. i also think he has his flaws.

5 better: quenneville, sullivan, gallant, hitchcock, cooper. argument for sutter and torts.

Could I hear that argument, please?
 

Beyonder91

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Oct 13, 2006
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Been saying Babcock has been running lines to bolster defense over offense and help slow down their production for contractual / disciplinary type reasons since near the start of the season.

This and he stands by the vets on the team too much.
 

MJ65

Registered User
Jul 12, 2009
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Come on guys Kadri's offense is not dependent on Marner - remember Kadri got 61 points playing between Komarov and Brown

He was on the same pace season but for some reason got in to terrible slump, I have to admit both Kadri and Marner are on tear ever since Marner moved to Kadri's line and seem to have a good chemistry (they both are benefiting from each other and Marner is playing better even in the defensive zone)
 

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
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Clearly that line was a long time overdue. One also has to wonder how putting JVR into Hyman's spot might work in the playoffs. My guess is Babcock wanted 3 balanced scoring lines or that they were framing JVR and Bozak and even Komorov for trade. Kapanen emerging changes the equation as they could put him in Marner's spot and still have 3 scoring lines.
 
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Ratboy

I made a funny!
Jul 15, 2009
16,855
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I love it. I f***ing love it.

Mitch has to be allowed to wheel and deal .. just skate baby. He's a Picasso of the frozen pond. A michelangelo of the mystical ice.

Magic Mitch indeed.
 

HEAVY DUTY

Thanks to denial, I’m immortal.
Jul 10, 2010
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if we can find a way to dump bozak and upgrade the #3C position before the trade deadline, i think we'd be set for the playoffs. also call up johnsson for the playoffs and have him as an extra in case komarov shits the bed and put him on the 4th line if needed.
 

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