The Athletic - 2018/19 NHL Farm system rankings

[Deficient Mode]

It's the flip side to your "he overrated the picks so he can't be trying to please Habs fans". I'm not saying that's true, I'm saying your explanation doesn't cover it all unless I misunderstood what you meant by "he overrated the picks".

As far as Trevor Timmins, the man is a disaster, he can't draft for ****.

He had several of the players whom the Habs ended up drafting far higher on his personal board weeks before the draft than their eventual draft position. This affords him the credibility to put the Habs significantly higher than consensus without at least having to face accusations of pandering to one of the largest fan bases in the league:

Reminder, Habs draft picks and where they landed on Pronman's board:
Kotkaniemi - 4
Ylönen - 14
McShane - 39
Fonstad - 41
Olofsson - 44
Hillis - 59

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Also, i'm not going to bother listing the players drafted by Trevor Timmins since he's been with the organization but to call it poor shows YOUR bias.

Trevor Timmins' track record is absolutely abysmal.

As for the TV personality? Joel Bouchard?

Are you serious right now??? you think he's a TV personality?

He was a fringe player at the NHL level and has been all over TV in Quebec for about 15 years. Yeah, he's a TV personality.

Let's stop the charade...you don't like the Habs, which is your right, and you're upset Corey Pronman's article doesn't support your agenda.

That's pretty much all this is about.

I hate the idea of paying to listen to someone give your their opinion when their opinion happens to be worthless. People think way too highly of a mediocre publication like the Atheltic because it's behind a paywall, it makes people think that they are more trust worthy. People don't tend to react well when they are told that something they think has value does not, in fact, have any value.

 

[jfhabs]

The Habs' track record in terms of drafting and developing has been poor, and that's being very kind, over the last 20 years or so. They still employ Trevor Timmins who has been a disaster, they have a TV personality as head coach of their minor league affiliate etc...

Timmins track record is average. What the GMs over him did with the picks he made is the major issue here.
As for the TV personality head coach, I think that's blind hate. The guy played in the nhl, has been a successful junior coach for almost 10 years, GM of team Canada at the under 20 the past 2 years... the guy before him was a much worse choice and I would agree to criticize his work, but Joel Bouchard is a different animal. I like this hire.

For Timmins : We also don't know when or how much higher management (Gainey/Bergevin/Gauthier) stepped over him in the 1st round or impose him to pick a specific position or type of player.

 

[Lebowski]

Trevor Timmins' track record is absolutely abysmal.



He was a fringe player at the NHL level and has been all over TV in Quebec for about 15 years. Yeah, he's a TV personality.



I hate the idea of paying to listen to someone give your their opinion when their opinion happens to be worthless. People think way too highly of a mediocre publication like the Atheltic because it's behind a paywall, it makes people think that they are more trust worthy. People don't tend to react well when they are told that something they think has value does not, in fact, have any value.

I’ll still take one scout’s opinion over the incoherent rambling of a bitter HF poster.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Timmins track record is average. What the GMs over him did with the picks he made is the major issue here.
As for the TV personality head coach, I think that's blind hate. The guy played in the nhl, has been a successful junior coach for almost 10 years, GM of team Canada at the under 20 the past 2 years... the guy before him was a much worse choice and I would agree to criticize his work, but Joel Bouchard is a different animal. I like this hire.

For Timmins : We also don't know when or how much higher management (Gainey/Bergevin/Gauthier) stepped over him in the 1st round or impose him to pick a specific position or type of player.

More than fair to say we don't know if Timmins was ever overruled by his superiors but I have to think that if he was consistently overruled he'd want out.

As far as Bouchard goes, coaching kids and coaching pros are very, very different things. Granted I was not aware of how long he's been coaching junior so I'll have to do a mea culpa on that front.

 

[417]

Trevor Timmins' track record is absolutely abysmal.

I don't think you even know his track record - i'm more or less a fan of his work, but to call him abysmal, again, speaks more to your bias.

He was a fringe player at the NHL level and has been all over TV in Quebec for about 15 years. Yeah, he's a TV personality.

I'm not sure what his status as a former player has to do with anything...as far as being "all over TV in Quebec for 15 yrs"

The guy hasn't even been out of pro hockey for 15 yrs, wtf are you talking about?

He was an extremely successful coach/owner of a Q-league franchise since 2012 and was an assistant coach for 3yrs prior to that.

He was also part of the management team for Hockey Canada.

STOP.

I hate the idea of paying to listen to someone give your their opinion when their opinion happens to be worthless. People think way too highly of a mediocre publication like the Atheltic because it's behind a paywall, it makes people think that they are more trust worthy. People don't tend to react well when they are told that something they think has value does not, in fact, have any value.

I'm sure if Pronman had put the Habs at 31, you'd be a loyal subscriber.

 

[417]

More than fair to say we don't know if Timmins was ever overruled by his superiors but I have to think that if he was consistently overruled he'd want out.

As far as Bouchard goes, coaching kids and coaching pros are very, very different things. Granted I was not aware of how long he's been coaching junior so I'll have to do a mea culpa on that front.

See, unlike The Athtletic...

You can sign up to get awful, ill-informed, biased takes on here for free!

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I don't think you even know his track record - i'm more or less a fan of his work, but to call him abysmal, again, speaks more to your bias.

Yes the Habs have consistently gotten good players (don't even have to be great) from the draft under Timmins' tenure

m not sure what his status as a former player has to do with anything...as far as being "all over TV in Quebec for 15 yrs"

The guy hasn't even been out of pro hockey for 15 yrs, wtf are you talking about?

He was an extremely successful coach/owner of a Q-league franchise since 2012 and was an assistant coach for 3yrs prior to that.

He was also part of the management team for Hockey Canada.

STOP.

Ok he's been out of pro hockey for ten years, my bad *eyeroll*

if Pronman had put the Habs at 31, you'd be a loyal subscriber.

I have better things to spend money on.

 

[jfhabs]

More than fair to say we don't know if Timmins was ever overruled by his superiors but I have to think that if he was consistently overruled he'd want out.

As far as Bouchard goes, coaching kids and coaching pros are very, very different things. Granted I was not aware of how long he's been coaching junior so I'll have to do a mea culpa on that front.

True, but he has nothing else to prove at the junior level. The next step for him was the AHL or Europe... we'll see, but I have much more faith in him then I ever had in Lefebvre

 

[Mrb1p]

Just a quick reminder that do make say think is a Sens fan.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

See, unlike The Athtletic...

You can sign up to get awful, ill-informed, biased takes on here for free!

I'm not selling anything or arguing that I'm an authority on anything.

I am amused at how personal people get when I call out a publication. "WHAT? I don't like bad stuff! You are wrong!"

 

[Mrb1p]

I'm not selling anything or arguing that I'm an authority on anything.

I am amused at how personal people get when I call out a publication. "WHAT? I don't like bad stuff! You are wrong!"

Youre calling out a publication that you havent even read because they have the Habs at 6 and the Sens outside the top 10

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Just a quick reminder that do make say think is a Sens fan.

And so that means that Timmins' track record is actually good, because the team I like clearly influences how good Timmins is at his job.

I'm glad you felt the need to state that.

 

[Breakers]

Didn't expect St Louis to be in the top 5, but the other 4 were pretty predictable.

Buffalo and Carolina will most likely be 1-2 respectively.
Vancouver and NYI could be interchangeable at 3 & 4
St Louis at 5

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Youre calling out a publication that you havent even read because they have the Habs at 6 and the Sens outside the top 10

The Sens are as middle of the pack as they get: we draft well but we also bleed talent like crazy. So we never get to really enjoy the fruits of the labour.

We also have made plenty of epic misses.

If you want to go back earlier in the thread, I was this vocal about the list well before Montreal showed up. Montreal being ranked this high with their very poor track record is certainly noteworthy but, and I know this might hurt, this isn't about you or the Habs. It's about The Athletic.

 

[417]

I'm not selling anything or arguing that I'm an authority on anything.

Don't worry, I had no illusions that you were an authority on anything either lol

I am amused at how personal people get when I call out a publication. "WHAT? I don't like bad stuff! You are wrong!"

I'm amused at how salty a publication has gotten you...You seem really disturbed by the Habs ranking, must be a reason why.

 

[417]

And so that means that Timmins' track record is actually good, because the team I like clearly influences how good Timmins is at his job.

I'm glad you felt the need to state that.

Now I get it lol

A salty Sens fan

 

[TheGoldenGod]

Thomas and Kyrou have looked great during the all the prospect camps, STL preseasons, their respective OHL seasons/playoffs, and WJC (especially Kyrou), and they continue to improve year to year. However, I think STL’s high ranking is result of the quality of their depth vs. top end talent.

Robert Thomas
Jordan Kyrou
Villie Husso
Klim Kostin
Dominik Bokk
Jake Walman
Samuel Blais
Erik Foley
Nikko Mikkola
Scott Perunivich
Zach Sanford
Evan Fitzpatrick
Mitch Reinke
Nolan Stevens
Alexey Toropchenko

Dunn, Fabbri, Schmaltz, Soshnikov, Barbashev, Sundqvist all recently graduated. Tons of quality youth in STL.

 

[UNITEDSTATESOFHOCKEY]

I’ll still take one scout’s opinion over the incoherent rambling of a bitter HF poster.

I would agree with that but Pronman is not a scout....

 

[Wooren]

I hate the idea of paying to listen to someone give your their opinion when their opinion happens to be worthless. People think way too highly of a mediocre publication like the Atheltic because it's behind a paywall, it makes people think that they are more trust worthy. People don't tend to react well when they are told that something they think has value does not, in fact, have any value.

My thoughts exactly. Pronman's list is one-man work, his opinion is as good as anyone's on the HFB. The fact Montreal's fans are trying to use this as some kind of proof how underrated their prospect pool is silly.
Also agree about Timmins, guy is a tool living off the incredible 2007 draft.

 

[417]

My thoughts exactly. Pronman's list is one-man work, his opinion is as good as anyone's on the HFB. The fact Montreal's fans are trying to use this as some kind of proof how underrated their prospect pool is silly.
Also agree about Timmins, guy is a tool living off the incredible 2007 draft.

I haven't seen this

What I have seen however is many salty non-Habs fans commenting on how one single persons opinion is worthless based almost entirely on the fact he's got them 6th.

Again, seems more like some are salty that Pronman's not reinforcing their own and the generally accepted confirmation bias that the Montreal Canadiens organization sucks from top to bottom.

 

[Captain Mountain]

My thoughts exactly. Pronman's list is one-man work, his opinion is as good as anyone's on the HFB. The fact Montreal's fans are trying to use this as some kind of proof how underrated their prospect pool is silly.
Also agree about Timmins, guy is a tool living off the incredible 2007 draft.

That's one of the hottest takes I have ever seen on here. The opinion of the guy that's been writing about and scouting prospects as a full time job for years and years is just as good as the opinion of an HFBoard poster?

Who here has connections to the NHL scouting community? NHL front offices? Who here has multiple viewings of 250+ NHL prospects plus draft players?

I'm going to guess almost no one.

And most Habs fans think the team's prospect pool isn't top-6.

 

[Dbrownss]

Thomas and Kyrou have looked great during the all the prospect camps, STL preseasons, their respective OHL seasons/playoffs, and WJC (especially Kyrou), and they continue to improve year to year. However, I think STL’s high ranking is result of the quality of their depth vs. top end talent.

Robert Thomas
Jordan Kyrou
Villie Husso
Klim Kostin
Dominik Bokk
Jake Walman
Samuel Blais
Erik Foley
Nikko Mikkola
Scott Perunivich
Zach Sanford
Evan Fitzpatrick
Mitch Reinke
Nolan Stevens
Alexey Toropchenko

Dunn, Fabbri, Schmaltz, Soshnikov, Barbashev, Sundqvist all recently graduated. Tons of quality youth in STL.

No, it's the top end. Pronman has already said so.....

 

[Mrb1p]

I would agree with that but Pronman/Timmons are not scouts....

Timmins is not a scout? Hes the had scout of the Habs

 

[Captain Mountain]

I would agree with that but Pronman/Timmons are not scouts....

What do you call someone that, for money, travels around the world and watches prospects play in order to appraise their abilities and project what they might become in the future?