The 2024 TRADE DEADLINE Thread

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I wasn't trying to be condescending, I was actually interested in what a top talent is in your opinion. One person would say another Larkin, while others a Mackinnon. As you know there is a big gap there.


I don't blame anyone for being upset, because I am as well.

I think top end talent must be quantifiable because numbers matter..

In addition to Larkin and Seider we need another 1st line 80 plus pt forward, another 1st pairing 50 plus pt dman, another 70 plus pt forward, and a top end #1 goalie..

 

[Snuggs]

I wasn't trying to be condescending, I was actually interested in what a top talent is in your opinion. One person would say another Larkin, while others a Mackinnon. As you know there is a big gap there.


I don't blame anyone for being upset, because I am as well.

Well, always to start you keep eyes on the Oilers, right? If they get knocked out in the 1st or 2nd round there will be hell to pay.

As for this year TDL, idk, maybe you MAKE Joel Ericsson EK available. How? Players/picks/prospects. Would have it been costly, most definately, but if you could have done that without moving Edvinsson I think you do it.

Joe Veleno, Jonatan Berggren, Marco Kasper, 1st rdp, 1st rdp in 2025.
for
Joel Ericsson Ek

For all I know though Yzerman did do something like this, and Minnesota still said no. But you asked what I would have done, and that's what I would have done. Top defensive C who can score, 26, signed. Also, Hanifin, but Idk if Red Wings were ever in consideration for him...

Idk, maybe something can still happen this summer. They need another guy bad to take those next steps... I really like Edvinsson/Danielson as prospects but not sure they're like 1st pairing/line type of guys. Hope so though.

 

[cvaicunas]

Well to be fair a decade is more than half of what it has taken and he started in the hole with the absolute abominable dumpster fire Holland left him...

I swear people forget the roster we were icing 4 seasons ago

 

[cvaicunas]

Berggren.


Jason Zucker.... lol, does it matter what I think? Lately when posters ask this question its mostly rhetorical and they have a loaded argument ready for my response.

EDIT* TBH with people here I'm just upset cause I spent a lot of time watching and going to games this year, thought since november they're a playoff team, thought they'd add(something) but really wanted Hanifin. Walking into TDL I was really scared for the team if no moves were made and well my nightmare is becoming reality here and it's snowballing and this forum the only place I can whine like a little bitch, lol. It really felt like the party was over when Colorado "exposed" the team imo(for me). For the first time this season I actually feel like they're going to pick 12-14 and miss the playoffs.

It was fun for most the year and now is just draining for me, lol, I have to step back and be way more casual.

This team has been bipolar all season though. Losing streaks, followed by winning streaks. It's disheartening now, but I would imagine they pull out of it. If that results in a playoff spot, well I dont know with this team. But we will start winning again

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Looking back at the last 5 Holland drafts, it produced NHL players Joe Veleno, Michael Rasmussen, Filip Hronek, Dylan Larkin, Anthony Mantha and Tyler Bertuzzi. Go back a few more and there's AA, Mrazek, Nick Jensen. To say that they had "nothing" is a bit of an over exaggeration. Believe me, no one hated Holland more than me and he had his share of failures, but to pretend like this team was completely void of NHL players isn't true. The inability to develop that talent may be the bigger issue and it'll be interesting to see how it pans out under Yzerman.

It's really kinda not. They had Larkin and Hronek... then the story with Bertuzzi, Mantha, and AA was "We're not gonna pay any of these guys long term because they're gonna want core piece money and they certainly aren't core pieces.

I don't know why you'd bring up Mrazek. Mrazek is the ultimate headcase goalie. He was quite literally boom or bust and you never knew which for his first two years.. and then he started overcommitting like crazy on cross ice passes and he became awful for Detroit.

If the cupboard wasn't empty, it had some rotten bread, a few packages of months old Oreos, and a package of oatmeal but you don't have a bowl.

I swear people forget the roster we were icing 4 seasons ago

Alex Biega was like a #4D. Good lord, we played Dennis Cholowski 19 minutes a night.

 

[Dotter]

I think top end talent must be quantifiable because numbers matter..

In addition to Larkin and Seider we need another (*1) 1st line 80 plus pt forward, another (*2) 1st pairing 50 plus pt dman, another (*3) 70 plus pt forward, and a (*4) top end #1 goalie..

*1. I don't see any reason why Raymond can't reach that 80pt 1st line winger status.
*2. Edvinsson and/or Axel Sandin Pellikka should easily reach that.
*3. My money is Danielsson becomes a 70pt center.
*4 If Cossa doesn't hit, Yzerman has proven to find top end goalies. No worries there.

 

[jkutswings]

*1. I don't see any reason why Raymond can't reach that 80pt 1st line winger status.
*2. Edvinsson and/or Axel Sandin Pellikka should easily reach that.
*3. My money is Danielsson becomes a 70pt center.
*4 If Cossa doesn't hit, Yzerman has proven to find top end goalies. No worries there.

I think there's a good chance that at least one of these four things do happen. But it's far from certain that all four occur.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

*1. I don't see any reason why Raymond can't reach that 80pt 1st line winger status.
*2. Edvinsson and/or Axel Sandin Pellikka should easily reach that.
*3. My money is Danielsson becomes a 70pt center.
*4 If Cossa doesn't hit, Yzerman has proven to find top end goalies. No worries there.

Absolutely, though could be and is are different and how many years in the NHL before those players reach that..4..5..?

 

[Dotter]

I think there's a good chance that at least one of these four things do happen. But it's far from certain that all four occur.

Is there certainty in anything? All you can do is watch players develop and pay attention to patterns and make educated judgments.

I'm not disappointed in anyone's development. In fact, I have been ecstatic. Cossa might be the least likely of the four examples. His position is also the easiest area to fix given Yzerman's track record.

EDIT: and Cossa isn't DRWs only goalie prospect? I don't know who else is there, but I'm sure we have prospects.

 

[jkutswings]

Is there certainty in anything? All you can do is watch players develop and pay attention to patterns and make educated judgments.

I'm not disappointed in anyone's development. In fact, I have been ecstatic. Cossa might be the least likely of the four examples. His position is also the easiest area to fix given Yzerman's track record.

EDIT: and Cossa isn't DRWs only goalie prospect? I don't know who else is there, but I'm sure we have prospects.

I'm also very encouraged. But even some guys that look practically bulletproof when they're only one step from the NHL still don't pan out very well.

Think of it in terms of mathematical probability. Even if there's an 80 percent chance of any one of those projections happening, that means there's only a 41 percent chance of ALL of them happening (0.8 x 0.8 x 0.8 x 0.8). And that's being very generous in saying that each scenario is 80 percent likely to transpire.

Now I know this isn't theoretical, with each player being in a vacuum. I'm just saying that the smart play is to be happy they're each doing well, but to plan (from a standing of roster building) for at least one seemingly sure thing to fizzle out.

Over prepare to account for some attrition. That's all.

 

[Fynn]

*1. I don't see any reason why Raymond can't reach that 80pt 1st line winger status.
*2. Edvinsson and/or Axel Sandin Pellikka should easily reach that.
*3. My money is Danielsson becomes a 70pt center.
*4 If Cossa doesn't hit, Yzerman has proven to find top end goalies. No worries there.

Top end goalies? Like who? Ned flamed out, so has Husso, jury still out on Lyon.

 

[Sentinel]

So -- nothing for us? No help coming?

 

[RedWingzz]

*1. I don't see any reason why Raymond can't reach that 80pt 1st line winger status.
*2. Edvinsson and/or Axel Sandin Pellikka should easily reach that.
*3. My money is Danielsson becomes a 70pt center.
*4 If Cossa doesn't hit, Yzerman has proven to find top end goalies. No worries there.

*4 Trey Augustine looks pretty damn good right now. He may have even passed Cossa as our top goalie prospect. I think one of Cossa or Augustine should be able to become an NHL starter.

 

[SirloinUB]

It's ok, hopefully Yzerman see's what some of us do in that we need top, legit top talent.

Ray Charles could see that. Literally everyone knows you need more good players to win more.

The problem is there are 31 other teams competing for that legit top talent.


Also lol at arguing we need top talent and then suggesting we sell the farm for Joel Eriksson ek. The best way to get top talent is to draft and develop it; pass on selling the farm for a lesser player than Larkin.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Ray Charles could see that. Literally everyone knows you need more good players to win more.

The problem is there are 31 other teams competing for that legit top talent.


Also lol at arguing we need top talent and then suggesting we sell the farm for Joel Eriksson ek. The best way to get top talent is to draft and develop it; pass on selling the farm for a lesser player than Larkin.

But he's a lesser player than Larkin from another team that we don't have!!

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

I think top end talent must be quantifiable because numbers matter..

In addition to Larkin and Seider we need another 1st line 80 plus pt forward, another 1st pairing 50 plus pt dman, another 70 plus pt forward, and a top end #1 goalie..

To what?

How many teams do you think have two 80 points forwards, two 50 point D, a third 70 point forward... let alone a #1 goalie on top of that?

What kind of an insane metric is this? That's "best team in history" level accumulation of talent... or "We simply don't play any f***ing defense whatsoever and just score".

Searched and I found two teams not in the 1980s when points were a dime a dozen.

The 1996 Wings who won 62 games met those criteria
The 2019 Lightning who won 62 games met those criteria (or were close, McDonagh got 46 points.

Outside of that, man.... teams simply don't have that kind of concentrated firepower anymore in this league. For one, it's wildly too expensive to have all those pieces be able to do that.

 

[DamonDRW]

To what?

How many teams do you think have two 80 points forwards, two 50 point D, a third 70 point forward... let alone a #1 goalie on top of that?

What kind of an insane metric is this? That's "best team in history" level accumulation of talent... or "We simply don't play any f***ing defense whatsoever and just score".

Searched and I found two teams not in the 1980s when points were a dime a dozen.

The 1996 Wings who won 62 games met those criteria
The 2019 Lightning who won 62 games met those criteria (or were close, McDonagh got 46 points.

Outside of that, man.... teams simply don't have that kind of concentrated firepower anymore in this league. For one, it's wildly too expensive to have all those pieces be able to do that.

I believe those are approximate numbers. Still to be a serious contender you need 2-3 star forwards, 2 1st pair D logging 22+ minutes a game and a reliable goalie. You can find these in any Stanley Cup winner.

As of now we have 1 F and 1 D. Will probably get G (Cossa/Augustine) and another D (Ed/ASP/Wallinder).

We don't have offense at all. I mean completely. Those thinking Raymond, Danielsson, Kasper may become even remotely close to say Stone or Point are delusional.

 

[norrisnick]

I believe those are approximate numbers. Still to be a serious contender you need 2-3 star forwards, 2 1st pair D logging 22+ minutes a game and a reliable goalie. You can find these in any Stanley Cup winner.

As of now we have 1 F and 1 D. Will probably get G (Cossa/Augustine) and another D (Ed/ASP/Wallinder).

We don't have offense at all. I mean completely. Those thinking Raymond, Danielsson, Kasper may become even remotely close to say Stone or Point are delusional.

Mark Stone has a career high of 73 points.

 

[schuelma24]

We don't have offense at all. I mean completely. Those thinking Raymond, Danielsson, Kasper may become even remotely close to say Stone or Point are delusional.

I know he's pointless the last few games, but I'd definitely argue that Raymond has that potential. He's still leading the league in U22 points.

 

[DamonDRW]

Mark Stone has a career high of 73 points.

Franzen never had more than 60 pts in a season and there is only one forward on our current roster that is comparable to him.

 

[Bench]

Mark Stone has a career high of 73 points.

Actually it's less than that. 64 points. I was surprised by that.

He'd have more but he hasn't finished a full season in many years. Still a great player, but yeah his career average PPG is 73 points. But that's giving him the benefit of playing 82 games which he's never done.

Edi: me dummy the above is wrong

 

[norrisnick]

Actually it's less than that. 64 points. I was surprised by that.

He'd have more but he hasn't finished a full season in many years. Still a great player, but yeah his career average PPG is 73 points. But that's giving him the benefit of playing 82 games which he's never done.

He was traded in '19 so he had 73 with both teams combined.

 

[RabidBadger]

*1. I don't see any reason why Raymond can't reach that 80pt 1st line winger status.
*2. Edvinsson and/or Axel Sandin Pellikka should easily reach that.
*3. My money is Danielsson becomes a 70pt center.
*4 If Cossa doesn't hit, Yzerman has proven to find top end goalies. No worries there.

1) I could see Raymond getting there. Even if he's a reliable 60-70 point guy we're good.
2) We only need 1 of them to be a point producing PP guy. The strength of the defense will be depth if guys like Wallinder, AlJo, etc. are able to be solid bottom 6 guys.
3) If Danielson becomes a 45-50 point guy that can also shut down top players then that's a big win for us. We need him or Jasper to hit as a 2C.
4) Goalies and D are the least of my concerns. Goalies are always a wild card but we're due for some good goalie juju.

 

[Bench]

He was traded in '19 so he had 73 with both teams combined.

View attachment 833841

Oh damn, my bad. Weird how his ppg average is also 73 points.

Anyway your point was correct, Stone is absolutely a playoff gamer but his numbers aren't so gaudy they can't be replicated. Raymond is well on his way.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

To what?

How many teams do you think have two 80 points forwards, two 50 point D, a third 70 point forward... let alone a #1 goalie on top of that?

What kind of an insane metric is this? That's "best team in history" level accumulation of talent... or "We simply don't play any f***ing defense whatsoever and just score".

Searched and I found two teams not in the 1980s when points were a dime a dozen.

The 1996 Wings who won 62 games met those criteria
The 2019 Lightning who won 62 games met those criteria (or were close, McDonagh got 46 points.

Outside of that, man.... teams simply don't have that kind of concentrated firepower anymore in this league. For one, it's wildly too expensive to have all those pieces be able to do that.

They were approximate #s

The top teams will have x2 guys over 80 pts and a 3rd hovering around 70 plus x1 dman over 50pts and another hovering around 50 plus a top goalie..

It becomes expensive when you have more than that(players with those kinds of #s) as it limits depth..

How and when during the season they make their way onto your roster is debatable...