Olympics: Team Switzerland 2022

[jonas2244]

Hollenstein, the veteran, made it. Maybe they choosed the wrong veteran. Im thinking about Brunner.

Brunner said himself that he isn't an option.

Senteler the only surprise I guess. Not much to argue about that selection.

 

[swissdude]

Yes. It's pretty much necessary for full legitimacy of a tournament

i was misunderstood, what i meant is playing a qualifying tournament to be able to participate and no this is obviously not necessary for all teams for the legitimacy of the tournament

 

[Speyer]

Unfortunately not one player under 25 on the team (except JVP who probably wont see any action). Sure if the NHL guys would have been on the roster this would look a bit different but it cant conceal the fact that we havent developped many good young players lately. Unfortunately guys like Nussbaumer, Berni, Geisser and Knak arent in the place I hoped they would be at this point. Still a good team overall though with a lot of skill but definitely a bit on the older side...

 

[stv11]

That's a bit of a harsh comment about Geisser, he had great WC last year and would probably have made the team if available.

It also doesn't help that so many young players seem so set to go play in the AHL, which development wise almost always ends up in failure. They waste 3 years there, return to Switzerland and it takes them 2 more seasons to reach national team level. See guys like Bertschy or Vermin, or what's happening with Thürkauf now.

 

[Speyer]

It also doesn't help that so many young players seem so set to go play in the AHL, which development wise almost always ends up in failure. They waste 3 years there, return to Switzerland and it takes them 2 more seasons to reach national team level. See guys like Bertschy or Vermin, or what's happening with Thürkauf now.

With Geisser I meant mostly the situation he is in that will probably hinder his development. The only one in recent memory who succeded in the AHL is Moser. And he had the advantage of being a second rounder and that pretty much garantees opportunities and ice time that an undrafted player doesnt have. So staying in Switzerland is probably the better option for anyone who isnt a standout talent. That hasnt changed that much since Ambühl and Wick went across the pond.

 

[jonas2244]

Calvin Thürkauf and Sandro Aeschlimann replace Sven Senteler and Joren Van Pottelberghe who had positive Covid-Tests last week.

 

[Eye of Ra]

What was Senteler even doing on the team.

 

[jonas2244]

Christian Marti the next player with a positive Covid-test. This time from inside the camp.

 

[Hinterland]

What was Senteler even doing on the team.

Eh. Senteler is a decent. Do we have better players? Probably. But does it even matter who's on the roster and who's not as long as the morons are in charge of the team? Nah. I honestly don't think so.

 

[Jon Riley]

Really hope that we'll manage to dodge more positives...I assume that it will be Frick the one that will be called up to replace Marti now.

 

[Shawn Heins 44]

Christian Marti the next player with a positive Covid-test. This time from inside the camp.

Must feel really bad for Marti, maybe once in a lifetime chance for such a player. For us overall he is one that we can probably replace the best (as were the other two positives so far). Lets hope he did not spread the virus, otherwise we might be in for a ride...

 

[Hinterland]

Must feel really bad for Marti, maybe once in a lifetime chance for such a player. For us overall he is one that we can probably replace the best (as were the other two positives so far). Lets hope he did not spread the virus, otherwise we might be in for a ride...

Van Pottelberghe is by far the best goaltender with a Swiss passport and it's not close...especially with Schmid not available. Berra isn't what he once was, Genoni never had international quality and Aeschlimann is garbage anyway. That trio be enough for such a tournament but they're nowhere near Van Pottelberghe.

All doesn't matter though for as long as the clowns are coaching. Even Andrei Vasilevskiy couldn't save those grade a morons

 

[stv11]

Frick replaces Marti, which sounds like an upgrade to me.

Three players had to leave and luckily they are arguably the most questionable choices at all 3 positions, but I'm not optimistic it's not going to change before Wednesday.

 

[Hinterland]

Frick replaces Marti, which sounds like an upgrade to me.

Three players had to leave and luckily they are arguably the most questionable choices at all 3 positions, but I'm not optimistic it's not going to change before Wednesday.

What's so questionable about Van Pottelberghe?
I mean there's no actual competition these days and that used to be different not too long ago but he's by far the best goaltender with a Swiss passport.

 

[jonas2244]

Malgin and Simion the next positives.

 

[Speyer]

Thats a heavy blow. Between this news, NHL players not coming and the time zone difference its getting harder and harder to get excited for the games...

 

[Hinterland]

Thats a heavy blow. Between this news, NHL players not coming and the time zone difference its getting harder and harder to get excited for the games...

With the morons behind the bench, they were never gonna go anywhere anyway. Unfortunately, they can use missing players as excuses so I hope there'll be no more.

Also, karma is a bitch. Remember when they were bashing Malgin via media?

 

[jonas2244]

It's gettin annoying, @Hinterland. If you don't have anything to say than the word moron you should just leave it.

 

[Hinterland]

It's gettin annoying, @Hinterland. If you don't have anything to say than the word moron you should just leave it.

I'm not sure what you're talking about? If I wouldn't have anything to say then I wouldn't take the time to post but I feel like it's important to provide some context to current news and if somebody describes the best Swiss goalie as "questionable" then I can't let that slide either.

 

[Speyer]

With the morons behind the bench, they were never gonna go anywhere anyway. Unfortunately, they can use missing players as excuses so I hope there'll be no more.

Agreed. Fischers record in the knockout stage is not good for the players he had, outisde the silver run in 18. His tactical shortcommings have been exposed multible times, espicailly in several losses against nominally weaker German teams. I hoped the pressure would finnaly mount if he failed again in this tournament but now the potential excuses are already at his disposal. A problem however is the question of Fischers potential replacement. Coaches of the stature of a Glen Halon are not that sexy either. Maybe Luca Cereda should get a chance. His stint with Ambri Piotta is much more impressive than anything than Fischer did in Lugano. Or maybe they should be looking into a part time coach that coaches a club team during the season like Bob Hartely does with the Latvians. But most likely Fischer will somehow talk himself out his shortcomings time and time again. Cominication skills and friends in the federation count more than actual competence apparently.

 

[Hinterland]

Agreed. Fischers record in the knockout stage is not good for the players he had, outisde the silver run in 18. His tactical shortcommings have been exposed multible times, espicailly in several losses against nominally weaker German teams. I hoped the pressure would finnaly mount if he failed again in this tournament but now the potential excuses are already at his disposal. A problem however is the question of Fischers potential replacement. Coaches of the stature of a Glen Halon are not that sexy either. Maybe Luca Cereda should get a chance. His stint with Ambri Piotta is much more impressive than anything than Fischer did in Lugano. Or maybe they should be looking into a part time coach that coaches a club team during the season like Bob Hartely does with the Latvians. But most likely Fischer will somehow talk himself out his shortcomings time and time again. Cominication skills and friends in the federation count more than actual competence apparently.

100% this. Fischer is an idiot and the same goes for the rest of his staff. I agree that coaching is the biggest problem in Swiss ice hockey though. A look at the pro teams is enough. Hardly any Swiss born coaches. They have to hire what's available from other countries but those guys are either not much better than what we have here or they're not willing to stay. Many of them don't even know the country or the leagues and players.

We don't have any coaches of clear cut international format. It's a fundamental structural problem. Leuenberger, Cereda or Paterlini maybe but they're unproven as well. Pretty much everybody else likely wouldn't be much better than what we have now. You can hire foreign coaches for National teams but it hasn't worked out for us lately.

Just sucks that we're always at a disadvantage because of poor coaching.

 

[Speyer]

100% this. Fischer is an idiot and the same goes for the rest of his staff. I agree that coaching is the biggest problem in Swiss ice hockey though. A look at the pro teams is enough. Hardly any Swiss born coaches. They have to hire what's available from other countries but those guys are either not much better than what we have here or they're not willing to stay. Many of them don't even know the country or the leagues and players.

We don't have any coaches of clear cut international format. It's a fundamental structural problem. Leuenberger, Cereda or Paterlini maybe but they're unproven as well. Pretty much everybody else likely wouldn't be much better than what we have now. You can hire foreign coaches for National teams but it hasn't worked out for us lately.

Just sucks that we're always at a disadvantage because of poor coaching.

Poor coaches in the junior system are also partly responsible for the recent drought in good prospects (not just at the NHL level) in recent years, compared to the players born in the 1990's. This is pretty much a problem that starts at the youngest level and ends in the NLA and the National Team. A reform in coaching development is very much needed. The clubs and the federation need to use some money to send promising coaches to Finland, Sweden or NA, so they get outside of the Swiss comfort zone and learn different coaching philosophies. And they need to raise the standard of the coaching formation in general. Then they could make the job (at all age levels) financially more attractive to pull in some decent foreign coaches. Maybe they should also be more critical about just handing out jobs to "famous" former NLA/NT players. But the clubs seem more interested in their own short term success and pay washed up AHL veterans ridiculous sums instead of using funds for coordinated structural reforms. And the federation suits can't be bothered to do anything either as long as the senior National Team survives the group stage at the WC regularly and they can hand out jobs to their buddies.

 

[stv11]

Agreed. Fischers record in the knockout stage is not good for the players he had, outisde the silver run in 18. His tactical shortcommings have been exposed multible times, espicailly in several losses against nominally weaker German teams. I hoped the pressure would finnaly mount if he failed again in this tournament but now the potential excuses are already at his disposal. A problem however is the question of Fischers potential replacement. Coaches of the stature of a Glen Halon are not that sexy either. Maybe Luca Cereda should get a chance. His stint with Ambri Piotta is much more impressive than anything than Fischer did in Lugano. Or maybe they should be looking into a part time coach that coaches a club team during the season like Bob Hartely does with the Latvians. But most likely Fischer will somehow talk himself out his shortcomings time and time again. Cominication skills and friends in the federation count more than actual competence apparently.

Fischer's tactical shortcoming are obvious, though they've been mitigated by surrounding him with the right staff. But as we discussed last year already, there's more to coaching at the national team level. Who's to say all these players we see year after year would be so eager to join with someone not as good at selling his project.

Beside, as much as those losses in elimination games were hurtful, you have to give credit to the team for reaching them. As much as Sean Simpson is revered for the 2013 run, he qualified for the elimination round in only two other instances (and qualified is big word for the 2014 olympics as all teams make the playoffs with that stupid format), and lost to Germany and Latvia. That is without considering losses in round robin games that were pretty much elimination games, like against Norway in 2011 or Belarus in 2014. These losses never happened under Fischer apart from 2016, with the old coaching staff and a team lacking quality (Trachsler-Walser-Schäppi-Walser center depth).

Regarding possible replacement, I think a full time coach is pretty much needed. You need to scout players, get in touch with them during the season (a part where Fischer's communication skills is important), keep in touch with the NHL players... things a coach busy with his club team would never been able to do. Not having a full time coach would lead to underachieve, look at the USA. Hartley may have done some good things with Latvia, but he didn't bring them to unprecedented heights. They made the quarterfinals with Znaroks and Lindström too.

And I don't find Cereda that intriguing. You may argue he has done more now than Fischer back in 2016, but he'd be replacing 2022 Fischer, not 2016 Fischer, a coach with way less tactical shortcomings. Plus he may have done decently well with a weak roster during his first few seasons, but he didn't really achieve anything either like Tomlinson with Rapperswil. And this year he doesn't seem able to exploit the potential of his improved roster, Ambrì is where they were last year. He just sticks to his brand of physical hockey, and seem incapable of using his more talented players. Maybe that would have fit well with the national team back in Krüeger's time, but not with the current roster.

And of course communication skills and knowing people count more than competences. You've never looked for a job?

 

[Hinterland]

Fischer's tactical shortcoming are obvious, though they've been mitigated by surrounding him with the right staff. But as we discussed last year already, there's more to coaching at the national team level. Who's to say all these players we see year after year would be so eager to join with someone not as good at selling his project.

Beside, as much as those losses in elimination games were hurtful, you have to give credit to the team for reaching them. As much as Sean Simpson is revered for the 2013 run, he qualified for the elimination round in only two other instances (and qualified is big word for the 2014 olympics as all teams make the playoffs with that stupid format), and lost to Germany and Latvia. That is without considering losses in round robin games that were pretty much elimination games, like against Norway in 2011 or Belarus in 2014. These losses never happened under Fischer apart from 2016, with the old coaching staff and a team lacking quality (Trachsler-Walser-Schäppi-Walser center depth).

Regarding possible replacement, I think a full time coach is pretty much needed. You need to scout players, get in touch with them during the season (a part where Fischer's communication skills is important), keep in touch with the NHL players... things a coach busy with his club team would never been able to do. Not having a full time coach would lead to underachieve, look at the USA. Hartley may have done some good things with Latvia, but he didn't bring them to unprecedented heights. They made the quarterfinals with Znaroks and Lindström too.

And I don't find Cereda that intriguing. You may argue he has done more now than Fischer back in 2016, but he'd be replacing 2022 Fischer, not 2016 Fischer, a coach with way less tactical shortcomings. Plus he may have done decently well with a weak roster during his first few seasons, but he didn't really achieve anything either like Tomlinson with Rapperswil. And this year he doesn't seem able to exploit the potential of his improved roster, Ambrì is where they were last year. He just sticks to his brand of physical hockey, and seem incapable of using his more talented players. Maybe that would have fit well with the national team back in Krüeger's time, but not with the current roster.

And of course communication skills and knowing people count more than competences. You've never looked for a job?

The right staff? They're all grade a morons. By no means able to run a hockey, let alone at international level.

Fischer may be the ideal leader for a cult and the way he handles his team certainly reminds me of a cult but he doesn't have a clue about what he's doing and he crossed several lines already, for example with the already mentioned public Malgin bashing or the Paterlini mobbing.

Btw, Simpson wasn't any better so he's a poor comparison. He doesn't know how to run a hockey team either. And that's exactly the problem we talked about earlier.

Speyer said it correctly. Fischer is still coaching because he's got friends installed all over the organization. It's slowly becoming some kind of a cult. Either you're with them or you're out. They're all over. Management, junior squads etc. We can't afford that because we have enough other issues to solve. I want to clean house. Fire them all even knowing that coaching might not get a lot better post Fischer. At least run the organization the right way.

At least Cereda does have a brand of hockey and you can see what he wants to do, recognize that the team is run by him. With Fischer, even after years it's still all a mess. The same mess Lugano was when he got fired.

 

[Speyer]

Fischer's tactical shortcoming are obvious, though they've been mitigated by surrounding him with the right staff. But as we discussed last year already, there's more to coaching at the national team level. Who's to say all these players we see year after year would be so eager to join with someone not as good at selling his project.

Fischers tactical shortcommings have been noticeable despite the additions in his staff. I don't know what their work process is exactly but Fischer as the headcoach has been responsible for decisions that ultimately contributed to losses. Examples are the loss last year against the Germans, the loss against the Germans in South Korea or the loss against Canada in 2019. Also the NHL players don't report because Fischer is such a charismatic leader but because the National Team has very high prestige in Switzerland like in the rest of Europe. Josi and Streit always reported before Fischer when available and both of them + Fiala have reported for Glen Hanlon. So did Brunner outside of his contract year. So its not like attracting the NHL players is something only Fischer can do. Its seems this narrative established itself because the number of NHL players increased a lot during his tenure as a coach.

As much as those losses in elimination games were hurtful, you have to give credit to the team for reaching them. As much as Sean Simpson is revered for the 2013 run, he qualified for the elimination round in only two other instances (and qualified is big word for the 2014 olympics as all teams make the playoffs with that stupid format), and lost to Germany and Latvia. That is without considering losses in round robin games that were pretty much elimination games, like against Norway in 2011 or Belarus in 2014. These losses never happened under Fischer apart from 2016, with the old coaching staff and a team lacking quality (Trachsler-Walser-Schäppi-Walser center depth).

Fischers rosters are so much better than those of his predecessors though (Outside of 2016). Each one of Niederreiter, Meier, Fiala, Hischier, Suter, Andrighetto, and Hoffman would be the best forward of any of those Krueger/Simpson teams and Fischer had multiple of them available in most of his tournaments on top of Josi at his peak. At the same time the other smaller nations didn't get any better; Slovakia even declined sharply during the Fischer era. Only Germany improved parallel to Switzerland but as I pointed out, Fischers record against them is poor. The skill gap between us and the smaller nations is just so big now, that its hard for us to loose against them.

Regarding possible replacement, I think a full time coach is pretty much needed. You need to scout players, get in touch with them during the season (a part where Fischer's communication skills is important), keep in touch with the NHL players... things a coach busy with his club team would never been able to do. Not having a full time coach would lead to underachieve, look at the USA. Hartley may have done some good things with Latvia, but he didn't bring them to unprecedented heights. They made the quarterfinals with Znaroks and Lindström too.

I don't think its ideal either, only if a very good coach were available who would coach an NLA team during the season. That would also take care of scouting the NLA players. Communication with the NHL players could also be taken care of by a full time assistant coach. The USA is also not a good comparison whatsoever since they don't care about the senior National Team at all outside of best on best Olympics. Developing their NCAA players is more important to them than Medals and it often shows.

And I don't find Cereda that intriguing. You may argue he has done more now than Fischer back in 2016, but he'd be replacing 2022 Fischer, not 2016 Fischer, a coach with way less tactical shortcomings. Plus he may have done decently well with a weak roster during his first few seasons, but he didn't really achieve anything either like Tomlinson with Rapperswil. And this year he doesn't seem able to exploit the potential of his improved roster, Ambrì is where they were last year. He just sticks to his brand of physical hockey, and seem incapable of using his more talented players. Maybe that would have fit well with the national team back in Krüeger's time, but not with the current roster.

And of course communication skills and knowing people count more than competences. You've never looked for a job?

I don't think your criticism of Cereda is fair. Yes his hockey isn't very attractive but I would still argue that Ambri has the weakest roster in the NLA outside of Ajoie. Who are his talented players? Pestoni has had his best season since leaving, Fora is doing about as well as ususal and Zwerger has never been that great when not playing with Kubalik. The imports are mostly declining due to age. Cereda is basing his strategy on the players he has in Ambri. Who is to say he could't adapt to the more talented NT in that regard?

I am also not arguing that he would be a much better solution than Fischer. I think its just a bad idea to just give Fischer a carte blanche and letting him loose almost every knockout game in his tenure without even the possibility of being replaced because there are no options. What message does that send? That just breeds complacency on his part.

And to your last point: Yes thats the reality unfortunately but should we just accept that as a given in this case? I think the federation owes it to the fans and the players to hire the most competent and not the most liked and connected man for the job.