WJC: Team Finland 2024 U20 WJC roster Talk.

FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
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They weren't going to play him now anyway. And who knows what he does or doesn't do if he plays instead.

The point was that Vali should have been the #1 goalie before tournament, and at the very leaast he should have been the one after groups.
Mhm. And if a cow had wheels, it would be a milk wagon.

My point is that whether Vali should or should not have been the starter after group play is irrelevant, because you can't field a sick guy. It would be much more fruitful to speculate if they should have let Vinni play in the medal round.
 

ChicagoBullsFan

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Jun 6, 2015
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Fire his ass now! Weak excuse of a coach. How do you spot a weak coach? He couldn't do any changes during the game, he didn't react to USA's change to press high with 2 men. He couldn't do any changes when Czechs started to roll.

First two games his tactics were something that's unseen in Finnish hockey, then he had to make changes and Sweden was surprised by us going back to traditional Finnish hockey. But he can't coach that style properly. Pennanen had he's flaws too with being stubborn, but atleast he knew the right tactic.

Adios Mikkola.
At least Petteri Sihvonen says how it actually is.

Do you agree with Petteri Sihvonen?
I do and 15000%
 

ChicagoBullsFan

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Lauri Mikkola's only skill and ability as a ''hockey coach''
is only to be right place in right time and lick and kiss right asses.

Lauri Mikkola got today his name on the list of the coaches who i don't want ever see in HIFK.
And the list is here.

1 Tomi Lämsä
2 Tomek Valtonen
3 Lauri Mikkola

If any of this trio ever shows up to HIFK i will turn Kiekko-Espoo / Jokerit supporter.
What a f***ing disgrace this clown coach has been so far. FIRE HIS ASS IMMEDIATELY.
 

ChicagoBullsFan

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The coach responsible for our special teams should be fired. What an atrocious penalty killing.. I can blame the players but imo this is more on coaching than on the boys. Very disappointing.
Whole f***ing coaching staff should be fired.
I respect Kimmo Kuhta as a HIFK legend and icon and he's Mr HIFK of all time to me.

I won't ever forget those big and crucial goals what Kuhta scored in 2011 SM liiga playoffs vs Jokerit.
But now he's absolutely wrong place.
 

SantosHalper

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Mar 21, 2012
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The fact is that this team overachieved.

Semifinal and bronze medal(+gold medal game) game revealed the truth, just how far behind Finland is right now.

Poor skating, poor passing, poor defending, poor player development. That was best defense we could have and yes, i realize Kiviharju was injured but i think he is vastly overrated. Kärki was supposed to be #1D, i don't recall him making any good opening passes.

Remember the covid slogan, "new normal". Well this is the new normal.

Going after the coaching staff is easy and they have lot to answer for but the real problem is much bigger and wider.

Next year it will be wash, rinse and repeat time. The level of the team is basically same and result will be the same as well.
 

king89

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Dec 4, 2018
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The fact is that this team overachieved.

Semifinal and bronze medal(+gold medal game) game revealed the truth, just how far behind Finland is right now.

Poor skating, poor passing, poor defending, poor player development. That was best defense we could have and yes, i realize Kiviharju was injured but i think he is vastly overrated. Kärki was supposed to be #1D, i don't recall him making any good opening passes.

Remember the covid slogan, "new normal". Well this is the new normal.

Going after the coaching staff is easy and they have lot to answer for but the real problem is much bigger and wider.

Next year it will be wash, rinse and repeat time. The level of the team is basically same and result will be the same as well.
Dunno. Next year's team has the potential to be the best since the 2019 gold medal team.
 

SantosHalper

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Dunno. Next year's team has the potential to be the best since the 2019 gold medal team.
:laugh::laugh::laugh: that's what they are saying in Hockey Association's Sauna right now. Unless all skaters find a extra gear in skating and that incredible crappy defense improve their whole game within a year, there is another failure in works.

But thanks for the laugh, i needed that.
 

king89

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Dec 4, 2018
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:laugh::laugh::laugh: that's what they are saying in Hockey Association's Sauna right now. Unless all skaters find a extra gear in skating and that incredible crappy defense improve their whole game within a year, there is another failure in works.

But thanks for the laugh, i needed that.
For the record I'm speaking strictly talent wise. Coaching might still suck lol.
 

moropanov

Registered User
Mar 7, 2015
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The fact is that this team overachieved.

Semifinal and bronze medal(+gold medal game) game revealed the truth, just how far behind Finland is right now.

Poor skating, poor passing, poor defending, poor player development. That was best defense we could have and yes, i realize Kiviharju was injured but i think he is vastly overrated. Kärki was supposed to be #1D, i don't recall him making any good opening passes.

Remember the covid slogan, "new normal". Well this is the new normal.

Going after the coaching staff is easy and they have lot to answer for but the real problem is much bigger and wider.

Next year it will be wash, rinse and repeat time. The level of the team is basically same and result will be the same as well.
Finland was quite close to final and winning gold.. With decent coaching gold was very realistic team showed its potential at times very good playing. player material was definitely good enough to win gold no question biggest problem was coaching. If for example JJalonen would have coached this team Gold would have been propable outcome they would have played mostly at same level as 1st periods againts Swe and Usa.. But this team had no backbone because of lousy coaching.
 
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SantosHalper

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For the record I'm speaking strictly talent wise. Coaching might still suck lol.
Something like this perhaps?
Tuomas Uronen - Konsta Helenius - Kasper Halttunen
Jesse Nurmi - Rasmus Kumpulainen - Emil Hemming
Antti Alasiurua - Topias Hynninen - Jesse Kiiskinen
Emil Kuusla - Tom Leppä - Emil Järventie
Benjamin Rautiainen/Otso Ylitalo/Julius Miettinen

Emil Pieniniemi - Veeti Väisänen
Aron Kiviharju - Kalle Kangas
Janne Peltonen - Sebastian Soini
Niklas Talvikunnas/Peetu Kiukas

Noa Vali
Emil Vinni
Visa Vedenpää

Way i see it, it's similar to this team. Offence looks good on paper, like it did this year. And i could see it being better but against the big-3, Finland will be out skated and overpowered along the boards again.

Defense is equally bad, that will definitely be in big trouble against active forecheck. Goalies might be better, i think Vali was better Kokko in this tournament. Vali left a good image.

I can't see Finland challenging USA, Canada or Sweden and games against Czechia and Slovakia will be extremely tight.
Finland was quite close to final and winning gold.. With decent coaching gold was very realistic team showed its potential at times very good playing. player material was definitely good enough to win gold no question biggest problem was coaching.
Not really. In the semifinal USA put in another gear in 2nd period and Finland was left far behind. Kokko playeda good game kept the numbers close. And Finland also got help from the refs, there were 4 clear high sticks that didn't call. Finland's PK was abysmall, if those would have been called USA could have scored 2-3 goals more at least.

Same thing in the bronze medal game and Czechia started to out skate Finland in the 3rd. Not enough gas left, compined to bad skating overally, Finland wasn't even close winning anything. But good tournament, big win over Slovakia's "golden generation" in the Q-final.
 

moropanov

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Mar 7, 2015
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Something like this perhaps?
Tuomas Uronen - Konsta Helenius - Kasper Halttunen
Jesse Nurmi - Rasmus Kumpulainen - Emil Hemming
Antti Alasiurua - Topias Hynninen - Jesse Kiiskinen
Emil Kuusla - Tom Leppä - Emil Järventie
Benjamin Rautiainen/Otso Ylitalo/Julius Miettinen

Emil Pieniniemi - Veeti Väisänen
Aron Kiviharju - Kalle Kangas
Janne Peltonen - Sebastian Soini
Niklas Talvikunnas/Peetu Kiukas

Noa Vali
Emil Vinni
Visa Vedenpää

Way i see it, it's similar to this team. Offence looks good on paper, like it did this year. And i could see it being better but against the big-3, Finland will be out skated and overpowered along the boards again.

Defense is equally bad, that will definitely be in big trouble against active forecheck. Goalies might be better, i think Vali was better Kokko in this tournament. Vali left a good image.

I can't see Finland challenging USA, Canada or Sweden and games against Czechia and Slovakia will be extremely tight.

Not really. In the semifinal USA put in another gear in 2nd period and Finland was left far behind. Kokko playeda good game kept the numbers close. And Finland also got help from the refs, there were 4 clear high sticks that didn't call. Finland's PK was abysmall, if those would have been called USA could have scored 2-3 goals more at least.

Same thing in the bronze medal game and Czechia started to out skate Finland in the 3rd. Not enough gas left, compined to bad skating overally, Finland wasn't even close winning anything. But good tournament, big win over Slovakia's "golden generation" in the Q-final.
Nah Finland was close beating Usa and ofc should have beaten Czech without epic meltdown Finland would win that 95 to 99 times out of 100 games if replayd from that 5-2 situation no technical skills were meaningful factor in that ourcome. Usa game was very close to 50-50 change's who would win when that decicive penalty happened with better structure there was good changes to win gold its clear coaching was biggest issue of this team always when they played regular finnish play style they were better than opponents mostly only when they started to play too hastely and had no regular structure propblems began. Finland must play its own brand of hockey not Swedish/North Americn typic upright tempo hockey. Finnish player's have been developed to play smart hockey and they have good skillset to play that kind of game. there's not really any big difference in this team's skill level compared to 2014 or 2021 2022 wjc team's for example. 2016 ofc is special, but otherwize about same level with good coaching they would be strong gold candidate and they were medal contender even with bad coaching.
 
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Jbcraig1883

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I only saw a few minutes of Finland this WJC, so mostly stat watching. Why wasn't Kumpulainen utilized more? Seems like he produced for the appearances/minutes he got.
 

OKR

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Nov 18, 2015
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Nah Finland was close beating Usa and ofc should have beaten Czech without epic meltdown Finland would win that 95 to 99 times out of 100 games if replayd from that 5-2 situation no technical skills were meaningful factor in that ourcome. Usa game was very close to 50-50 change's who would win when that decicive penalty happened with better structure there was good changes to win gold its clear coaching was biggest issue of this team always when they played regular finnish play style they were better than opponents mostly only when they started to play too hastely and had no regular structure propblems began. Finland must play its own brand of hockey not Swedish/North Americn typic upright tempo hockey. Finnish player's have been developed to play smart hockey and they have good skillset to play that kind of game. there's not really any big difference in this team's skill level compared to 2014 or 2021 2022 wjc team's for example. 2016 ofc is special, but otherwize about same level with good coaching they would be strong gold candidate and they were medal contender even with bad coaching.
We were never close to beating USA, 40 minutes out of 60 were entirely controlled by USA and that’s with the refs bailing us out of multiple clear penalties and US only starting to play in the second period.

We should’ve won Czechia once we had a 3 goal lead, but they absolutely outclassed us in the special teams department. Our choking was byproduct of how well Czechia played at that point, and once they were back in it they were the better team in every aspect of hockey.
 

moropanov

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We were never close to beating USA, 40 minutes out of 60 were entirely controlled by USA and that’s with the refs bailing us out of multiple clear penalties and US only starting to play in the second period.

We should’ve won Czechia once we had a 3 goal lead, but they absolutely outclassed us in the special teams department. Our choking was byproduct of how well Czechia played at that point, and once they were back in it they were the better team in every aspect of hockey.
Finland were very close beating Usa overtime is almost coinflip first period was Finlands clearly and Second Usa's third was quite even Usa had slight edge, but Finland also had good opportunities to score. Tight close game that either could have won. Finland wasnt far from level of play to win championship in this tournament with competent coaching its propable they would have made it to final.
 
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ChicagoBullsFan

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I only saw a few minutes of Finland this WJC, so mostly stat watching. Why wasn't Kumpulainen utilized more? Seems like he produced for the appearances/minutes he got.
Because our coach is brain-dead idiot, that's why.
 

SantosHalper

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there's not really any big difference in this team's skill level compared to 2014 or 2021 2022 wjc team's for example.
In defense there is and in goal.
2014 defense
Lindell - Ristolainen
Lehtonen - Pokka
Vainonen - Honka
Kinnunen - Vainio

2014 goalies
Saros
Husso

vs

2024 defense
Pulkkinen - Kulonummi
Kärki - Kangas
Pieniniemi - Salin
Väisänen

2024 goalies
Kokko
Vali

2021 & 2022 defence's were much better and mobile than this year's team.
 

Jussi

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Feb 28, 2002
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I as well would like to see some other head coach next year, but we'll have to watch him coach again. I don't know if J.Jokinen and Kuhta did much there either. At least Mikkola could change the assistant coaches, so we could have some hope next year, although Mikkola himself is probably the main reason for the bad coaching.

Who decided to extend Mikkola's contract anyway? It sounded like a questionable decision during the moment it was announced already, but it looks like a very bad decision right now. It was decided a bit too soon. Even Raipe Helminen to me looks like a better U20 head coach compared to Mikkola.

The #1 goalie choice has been wrong. We had Vali with 2-0 record and Kokko who now has 1-4. One of Vali's wins was against Sweden and that for me was the biggest achievement of the tournament for team Finland. The game was rather meaningless in terms of group positions, but Sweden gave their full 100% in that game in my opinion. Slovakia win was the other positive single game result. Slovakia had a good team, but we probably made them look slightly better than they are.

Only positive thing was the even strength play, but that's about it. With that PK and PP, we don't deserve to medal. We are lucky we got to be 4th, but the potential with better special teams would've been all the way to the gold. That for me is a coaching issue, when both PK and PP are awful.
Vali got sick before the semifinal so he wasn't available.
 
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Mestaruus

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Vali got sick before the semifinal so he wasn't available.

Unfortunate. I liked him. He did let 1-2 goals that felt easy ones in the Sweden game, but he felt like the better option compared to Kokko.
 

Mestaruus

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He's right, as he often is. If we got two good hockey minds hired for right jobs, that would be Sihvonen at MTV3 and Ismo Lehkonen in a lot of places as an assistant commentator.
 

FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
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Petteri Sihvonen is a clown. If he was even halfway competent, the amount of coaching jobs on his resume wouldn't be only slightly greater than the amount of good ideas on his average column.

Luckily, thinking that Lauri Mikkola was a bad hire and thinking that Sihvonen is a clown are not mutually exclusive.
 

Mestaruus

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Petteri Sihvonen is a clown. If he was even halfway competent, the amount of coaching jobs on his resume wouldn't be only slightly greater than the amount of good ideas on his average column.

Luckily, thinking that Lauri Mikkola was a bad hire and thinking that Sihvonen is a clown are not mutually exclusive.

File, are you sure you aren't T. Salami, who happens to have a beef with Sihvonen. I like how Sihvonen speaks out his mind and doesn't sugar coat things. In my opinion he usually has good points and is somewhat right on things. It could be far worse, having some Nättinen (hired for YLE) or what ever. A boring person who just says all the generic things one would expect. I don't want to hear their hockey yargons. I want to hear some real opinions, whether they are right or wrongs. At least it's something new and refreshing. He often gets it quite right anyways.
 

FiLe

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I like how Sihvonen speaks out his mind and doesn't sugar coat things.
There is nothing wrong with speaking one's mind. In Sihvonen's case it's not always all that difficult to agree with him on the general level - such as with the fact that Mikkola wasn't a successful hire. In fact, people who do know something about hockey and agree with that sentiment likely aren't few and far between. The only thing that makes finding them difficult is that many of them won't be as straightforward in expressing it as someone like Sihvonen is.

But the fact that Sihvonen dares say it does not mean he is right with his in-depth analysis. In this case, Mikkola's failure was not being able to coach "meidän peli". His failure was to provide any kind of backbone the players could fall back on when they find things slipping out of their grasp. "Meidän peli", which Sihvonen drones on and on about is no markedly superior to many other systems out there - although, I'm not calling it a bad philosophy by any means. But it shouldn't be the only solution to all of your problems - for the sole reason alone that if you're a one-trick pony without any variety, others will eventually find a way to counter it. However, the fact that Sihvonen often acts like he has the only right solution (even when he doesn't), his tendency to only speak out after obvious failures, and his inability to admit that he's wrong even when he's clearly been wrong are what make him a person you shouldn't give any serious thought. In other words, a clown.

In comparison, Ismo Lehkonen, whom you mentioned, isn't afraid to speak his mind either (and it's likely the reason why he was never considered for any role in Liitto's payroll - his personality rubbed Kummola the wrong way) and, unlike Sihvonen, has some actual competence. Not that Ika is infallible by any means, but at least he actually puts the problem before the answer, unlike Sihvonen, who can only think about how to present the problem as an indicator of whatever single-minded issue he had stuck upon his mind long before the problem presented itself.
 
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Mestaruus

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There is nothing wrong with speaking one's mind. In Sihvonen's case it's not always all that difficult to agree with him on the general level - such as with the fact that Mikkola wasn't a successful hire. In fact, people who do know something about hockey and agree with that sentiment likely aren't few and far between. The only thing that makes finding them difficult is that many of them won't be as straightforward in expressing it as someone like Sihvonen is.

But the fact that Sihvonen dares say it does not mean he is right with his in-depth analysis. In this case, Mikkola's failure was not being able to coach "meidän peli". His failure was to provide any kind of backbone the players could fall back on when they find things slipping out of their grasp. "Meidän peli", which Sihvonen drones on and on about is no markedly superior to many other systems out there - although, I'm not calling it a bad philosophy by any means. But it shouldn't be the only solution to all of your problems - for the sole reason alone that if you're a one-trick pony without any variety, others will eventually find a way to counter it. However, the fact that Sihvonen often acts like he has the only right solution (even when he doesn't), his tendency to only speak out after obvious failures, and his inability to admit that he's wrong even when he's clearly been wrong are what make him a person you shouldn't give any serious thought. In other words, a clown.

In comparison, Ismo Lehkonen, whom you mentioned, isn't afraid to speak his mind either (and it's likely the reason why he was never considered for any role in Liitto's payroll - his personality rubbed Kummola the wrong way) and, unlike Sihvonen, has some actual competence. Not that Ika is infallible by any means, but at least he actually puts the problem before the answer, unlike Sihvonen, who can only think about how to present the problem as an indicator of whatever single-minded issue he had stuck upon his mind long before the problem presented itself.

Fair enough, but do you read any Nättinen's writings on YLE? One time was enough for me and why do they hire these Lennart Petrell's as studio talkers anyways. Boring us to death is their goal I guess. We should have enough random ex-hockey players in Finland by now who are interesting to listen to. I don't think it's about "nobody else wants to come" either. Are they seriously going for max salary savings or something.
 

FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
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One time was enough for me and why do they hire these Lennart Petrell's as studio talkers anyways. Boring us to death is their goal I guess. We should have enough random ex-hockey players in Finland by now who are interesting to listen to. I don't think it's about "nobody else wants to come" either. Are they seriously going for max salary savings or something.
Commentators who can use colorful enough language without getting too colorful (as in, say some dumb shit while on live) are quite rare - on all fields, I might add. Trying to find the next Ogden Nash amongst a group that has spent last 20 years chasing a puck instead of writing columns and whatnot is particularly tricky. I'm not saying they don't exist, but rather than take the risk that their commentator might say something a little too interesting at the wrong moment, the networks tend to err on the safe side.
 
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