Team Canada 2022

[SOLR]

I agree with that. Ask the Bruins how great Marchand is.

Not a great argument, anyone close to being selected by team Canada is adored by their teams, obviously.

 

[SOLR]

That could be. He's not the biggest or strongest guy around but he holds his own. I think the bigger issue is the Canadian brass might be in love with the idea of maximizing their overwhelming strength at center and just convert some of those centers into wingers. Not to say Canada doesn't have capable wingers but they are not as deep at either left or right wing as you would expect. You have Marner and Stone on the right side and then it drops off a bit and then on the left you have Marchand and Huberdeau after which it drops off a bit.

Scheifele is always used as a RW
Barzal can be counted as an elite RW (because Canada's best 4C are Crosby, McDavid, Point and Bergeron, with Wright and Bedard already coined to replace Bergeron/Crosby + Suzuki/Dach as options)

RW
It's really Stone vs. Scheifele. I think it's a no-contest. Scheifele.
Stone vs. Seguin, if Seguin is in shape, Seguin, no contest at this stage, Stone can't skate with team USA.
Stone vs. Suzuki, again, not really a competition, Suzuki is a lot more versatile and physically in the group to play the new game.
It's Marner vs. Barzal, much closer there, but I'd pick the guy playing there all the time.

If you play Marner he will be in the top 6.
And you probably need to balance one he top lines with Scheifele if the LW is offensive (Mackinnon)

 

[cg98]

Not a prediction at all if you read carefully. I think he should be off the team. He's not a factor at that stage. I already know Marchand/Bergeron will play way too much, that's my prediction: that we'll learn the same lesson again of building teams from past performance.

Thank god you're not the GM.

 

[SOLR]

Thank god you're not the GM.

Stop flattering yourself and instead tell me why I'm wrong. Tell me why Marchand belongs in the top 9 as soon as you don't play Bergeron there. Because it would be highway robbery to not play Point ahead of Bergeron in 2021-2022 (but we'll do it anyway is the consensus of this board)

Marchand, better than Mackinnon? hell no.
Marchand, better than Huberdeau, hell no.
Couturier on a 4th line? No
Playing with McDavid? No

He won't be out, they'll stick Marchand and Bergeron with Crosby and we'll have a lesser offence.

 

[cg98]

Stop flattering yourself and instead tell me why I'm wrong. Tell me why Marchand belongs in the top 9 as soon as you don't play Bergeron there. Because it would be highway robbery to not play Point ahead of Bergeron in 2021-2022 (but we'll do it anyway is the consensus of this board)

Marchand, better than Mackinnon? hell no.
Marchand, better than Huberdeau, hell no.
Couturier on a 4th line? No
Playing with McDavid? No

He won't be out, they'll stick Marchand and Bergeron with Crosby and we'll have a lesser offence.

That immediately negates any dumb point you're trying to make.

He was on a 109 point pace this season and was 9th in selke voting (Couturier was 15th) and 5th for the hart (Huberdeau was 13th) this past season, and you're saying that playing him on a line with our generations greatest player and one of the best two way players ever makes a lesser offence? LMFAO. You don't know anything and you're wrong, thank god you're not the GM. You quit flattering yourself

 

[86Habs]

Marchand was 3rd in the league in the points last season, 5th in Hart voting, and top 10 in Selke voting. That's pretty good, right?

 

[Mathieukferland]

Stop flattering yourself and instead tell me why I'm wrong. Tell me why Marchand belongs in the top 9 as soon as you don't play Bergeron there. Because it would be highway robbery to not play Point ahead of Bergeron in 2021-2022 (but we'll do it anyway is the consensus of this board)

Marchand, better than Mackinnon? hell no.
Marchand, better than Huberdeau, hell no.
Couturier on a 4th line? No
Playing with McDavid? No

He won't be out, they'll stick Marchand and Bergeron with Crosby and we'll have a lesser offence.

Third in the league in points, a very effective penalty killer, defensively responsible winger, brings that “sandpaper” that some posters on this thread fetishize about, plays well with Crosby, I can go on and on… I suggest you go and watch the last time he played for Canada if you doubt his ability

 

[SOLR]

Third in the league in points, a very effective penalty killer, defensively responsible winger, brings that “sandpaper” that some posters on this thread fetishize about, plays well with Crosby, I can go on and on… I suggest you go and watch the last time he played for Canada if you doubt his ability

When was that?

I didn't talk about his NHL performance. You don't build teams by looking only at stats.

 

[Mathieukferland]

When was that?

2016 world cup

 

[J bo Jeans]

Scheifele is always used as a RW
Barzal can be counted as an elite RW (because Canada's best 4C are Crosby, McDavid, Point and Bergeron, with Wright and Bedard already coined to replace Bergeron/Crosby + Suzuki/Dach as options)

RW
It's really Stone vs. Scheifele. I think it's a no-contest. Scheifele.
Stone vs. Seguin, if Seguin is in shape, Seguin, no contest at this stage, Stone can't skate with team USA.
Stone vs. Suzuki, again, not really a competition, Suzuki is a lot more versatile and physically in the group to play the new game.
It's Marner vs. Barzal, much closer there, but I'd pick the guy playing there all the time.

If you play Marner he will be in the top 6.
And you probably need to balance one he top lines with Scheifele if the LW is offensive (Mackinnon)

Scheifele and Stone are very close. Their stat line shows that. What exactly backs that its no contest?

How is Seguin above stone? Seguin hasnt been a PPG player since 2015-16. While Stone has been a PPG player for nearly 6 seasons now all while being a Selke caliber two-way forward.

Really its not close and its Stone whos winning.

 

[SOLR]

That immediately negates any dumb point you're trying to make.

He was on a 109 point pace this season and was 9th in selke voting (Couturier was 15th) and 5th for the hart (Huberdeau was 13th) this past season, and you're saying that playing him on a line with our generations greatest player and one of the best two way players ever makes a lesser offence? LMFAO. You don't know anything and you're wrong, thank god you're not the GM. You quit flattering yourself

"You don't know anything and you are wrong" - sounds confident for something that has yet to happen.

This isn't 2012. This is 2022. Not the same opponents, not the same Marchand.

 

[SOLR]

Scheifele and Stone are very close. Their stat line shows that. What exactly backs that its no contest?

How is Seguin above stone? Seguin hasnt been a PPG player since 2015-16. While Stone has been a PPG player for nearly 6 seasons now all while being a Selke caliber two-way forward.

Really its not close and its Stone whos winning.

Scheifele is a more complete player, faster, better offensive tools. You can't watch Stone and forget that he disappears as soon as he is under defensive pressure.

 

[cg98]

"You don't know anything and you are wrong" - sounds confident for something that has yet to happen.

This isn't 2012. This is 2022. Not the same opponents, not the same Marchand.

Marchand is better now than he ever was in 2012 so that completely negates your point too.

 

[cg98]

Scheifele is a more complete player, faster, better offensive tools. You can't watch Stone and forget that he disappears as soon as he is under defensive pressure.

Lol and you think Scheifele would do better? Scheifele was a defensive tire fire this season ANY time he was under defensive pressure.

 

[J bo Jeans]

Scheifele is a more complete player, faster, better offensive tools. You can't watch Stone and forget that he disappears as soon as he is under defensive pressure.

Mark Stone has been nominated multiple times for the Selke. Mark Stone is an actual right wing while Sheifele is a centre.

To recap:
- nearly identical stat lines outside of missed games from injury
- Stone consistently voted as a top defensive forward in the league
- Stone an actual right winger.

 

[86Habs]

Mark Stone has been nominated multiple times for the Selke. Mark Stone is an actual right wing while Sheifele is a centre.

To recap:
- nearly identical stat lines outside of missed games from injury
- Stone consistently voted as a top defensive forward in the league
- Stone an actual right winger.

I have Stone on my team and think he'll be selected, but there's no denying that he shit the bed in back-to-back conference finals series against Dallas and Montreal. That has to give the management group some pause. He's probably better suited for a more limited defensive role anyway.

 

[SOLR]

Marchand is better now than he ever was in 2012 so that completely negates your point too.

He is, but that doesn't "negate my point" whatever that means.
I'm not saying Marchand is a terrible player, just that in my book, as soon as you recognize that Bergeron is declining (and he is despite his point total) - Marchand loses his raison d'être by association. Suddenly he doesn't fit in.
Crosby is also declining.

So if you are saying that it should be something like this:

Mackinnon - McDavid - Scheifele
Huberdeau - Point - Marner
Marchand - Crosby - Bergeron
Couturier - ROR - Seguin

I'm not opposed to it, however, in my opinion it's inferior.
a) I don't think Mackinnon/McDavid will make a good pair
b) I don't think Huberdeau/McDavid will make a good pair
c) I think Crosby-MacKinnon is potentially a better use of Crosby at this point. It's a pair I'd love to see in action, same hockey. Then you have to wonder if MacKinnon - Crosby - Bergeron isn't a better line than Marchand - Crosby - Bergeron by quite a bit.

See that's the problem. Crosby and McDavid are not that easy to optimize. Point is a lot easier. Toews was much easier also.

 

[86Habs]

He is, but that doesn't "negate my point" whatever that means.
I'm not saying Marchand is a terrible player, just that in my book, as soon as you recognize that Bergeron is declining (and he is despite his point total) - Marchand loses his raison d'être by association. Suddenly he doesn't fit in.
Crosby is also declining.

So if you are saying that it should be something like this:

Mackinnon - McDavid - Scheifele
Huberdeau - Point - Marner
Marchand - Crosby - Bergeron
Couturier - ROR - Seguin

I'm not opposed to it, however, in my opinion it's inferior.
a) I don't think Mackinnon/McDavid will make a good pair
b) I don't think Huberdeau/McDavid will make a good pair
c) I think Crosby-MacKinnon is potentially a better use of Crosby at this point. It's a pair I'd love to see in action, same hockey. Then you have to wonder if MacKinnon - Crosby - Bergeron isn't a better line than Marchand - Crosby - Bergeron by quite a bit.

See that's the problem. Crosby and McDavid are not that easy to optimize. Point is a lot easier. Toews was much easier also.

Marchand could play on any line on this team and be incredibly effective, he doesn't necessarily need to be tethered to Bergeron. He's a top 10 player in the NHL and will be selected with or without Bergeron. Bergeron is a lock to make the team, even if his play deteriorates at the beginning of the season and he finds himself in a more limited defensive role away from Crosby/Marchand.

MacKinnon with Huberdeau or Marner would work in theory, as MacKinnon has several seasons of experience playing with a pass-first/playmaking winger (Rantanen).

Point can be plugged in anywhere in the lineup, at C or RW. Incredibly versatile and well-rounded player.

 

[SOLR]

Marchand could play on any line on this team and be incredibly effective, he doesn't necessarily need to be tethered to Bergeron. He's a top 10 player in the NHL and will be selected with or without Bergeron. Bergeron is a lock to make the team, even if his play deteriorates at the beginning of the season and he finds himself in a more limited defensive role away from Crosby/Marchand.

MacKinnon with Huberdeau or Marner would work in theory, as MacKinnon has several seasons of experience playing with a pass-first/playmaking winger (Rantanen).

Point can be plugged in anywhere in the lineup, at C or RW. Incredibly versatile and well-rounded player.

Fair enough, I just don't think MacKinnon should play center here. If you can free up MacKinnon you do it.

That's probably where we disagree, I think Marchand is a lot more tied to Bergeron. Not a top 10 player in the league.

Top 10 in points =/ top 10 player in the league. Just Tampa has 4 players better than Marchand without much contest. And Marchand is the 3rd best player on the Bruins, that's 6 players ahead of him in 2 teams. Unless you want to pretend that Pasta is inferior to Marchand, in which case, not sure what to say. Crosby, McDavid, Mackinnon, Makar, Ovechkin, Drai, Matthews, Kaprizov, Aho, Barkov, Panarin, Kane <== Marchand has never been part of that group, he's still not there.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Ultimately I think I would put MacKinnon at centre. It’s just too good to pass up.

The top two lines would be zone entry machines getting passes from the PMD’s on the backend. McDavid and MacKinnon are the elite of elite in terms of carrying the puck into the O-zone. It would really be a relentless assault. Especially with Point, or Crosby as 3C.

On Marchand… phenomenal player, regardless of who plays with. He was a top-5 player in the league last season. He also plays a style that could mesh well with anyone.

 

[ORRFForever]

Ultimately I think I would put MacKinnon at centre. It’s just too good to pass up.

The top two lines would be zone entry machines getting passes from the PMD’s on the backend. McDavid and MacKinnon are the elite of elite in terms of carrying the puck into the O-zone. It would really be a relentless assault. Especially with Point, or Crosby as 3C.

On Marchand… phenomenal player, regardless of who plays with. He was a top-5 player in the league last season. He also plays a style that could mesh well with anyone.

Well said.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Stop flattering yourself and instead tell me why I'm wrong. Tell me why Marchand belongs in the top 9 as soon as you don't play Bergeron there. Because it would be highway robbery to not play Point ahead of Bergeron in 2021-2022 (but we'll do it anyway is the consensus of this board)

Marchand, better than Mackinnon? hell no.
Marchand, better than Huberdeau, hell no.
Couturier on a 4th line? No
Playing with McDavid? No

He won't be out, they'll stick Marchand and Bergeron with Crosby and we'll have a lesser offence.

Marchand's arguably Canada's top natural LWer. Not only that, but him and Crosby showed tremendous chemistry the last international event they played together at. You haven't really made a strong argument for why he shouldn't be on the team.

I'd also like to point out that your reason for leaving some guys at home is due to foot speed, yet your lineup includes both Tavares and Couture.

 

[SOLR]

Marchand's arguably Canada's top natural LWer. Not only that, but him and Crosby showed tremendous chemistry the last international event they played together at. You haven't really made a strong argument for why he shouldn't be on the team.

I'd also like to point out that your reason for leaving some guys at home is due to foot speed, yet your lineup includes both Tavares and Couture.

Yep, only for tactical, line-based reasons. I'm neither set on Tavares or Couturier.

Marner and Tavares have good chemistry, what would happen with McDavid in the mix?

 

[ORRFForever]

Marchand's arguably Canada's top natural LWer. Not only that, but him and Crosby showed tremendous chemistry the last international event they played together at. You haven't really made a strong argument for why he shouldn't be on the team.

I'd also like to point out that your reason for leaving some guys at home is due to foot speed, yet your lineup includes both Tavares and Couture.

Agree.

Marchand / Crosby / Bergeron have terrific chemistry. Given how hard it is to find chemistry in a short tournament, don't fix what's not broken and keep the 3-some together.

 

[AdvancedPressure]

Canada could make three full teams and have a good chance at finishing 1, 2, and 3 in the medal count. It'll be interesting to see if the management decides to go all galaxy brain and take an off the board "Rob Zamuner/Kris Draper" type over some more offensive superstar.