Taking a look back at over 30 years worth of Habs prospect top 10 lists

[Habs Halifax]

I don't even know what that means. What is a grade A prospect ?

He likely goes 2nd round in a 2018 redraft.

Grade A to me is: Romanov, Brook, Poehling, Suzuki, Primeau.

Grade B to me is: Ylonen, Ikonen, Olofsson, Fleury.

I'm assuming you have Harris in the Ylonen, Ikonen, Olofsson, Fleury group? I would call Harris a fringe Grade B type prospect at this stage. But hey, I have not seen Harris play one bit so it's my wildest guess and yes, I'm using his stats only

 

[Mrb1p]

Grade A to me is: Romanov, Brook, Poehling, Suzuki, Primeau.

Grade B to me is: Ylonen, Ikonen, Olofsson, Fleury.

I'm assuming you have Harris in the Ylonen, Ikonen, Olofsson, Fleury group? I would call Harris a fringe Grade B type prospect at this stage. But hey, I have not seen Harris play one bit so it's my wildest guess and yes, I'm using his stats only

So what is Kotkaniemi ? And yes I do.

 

[Whitesnake]

I don't even know what that means. What is a grade A prospect ?

He likely goes 2nd round in a 2018 redraft.

I will wait on prospects like that. Call it the Mac Bennett syndrom. The type of player he is...and even the similar numbers in their 1st year in the NCAA"

 

[Habs Halifax]

So what is Kotkaniemi ? And yes I do.

Grade A but he is already in the NHL. Not sure if he is just a Grade A or a A+... we have to wait. Evaluations change at any given point of time.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I will wait on prospects like that. Call it the Mac Bennett syndrom. The type of player he is...and even the similar numbers in their 1st year in the NCAA"

Agreed. My initial stance was calling Harris a grade B or C type. It's not a knock on him, it's just way to early to know and we need a larger draft + development time to nail it down. Habs certainly have a few guys that fall in the Grade B- category... could surprise or disappoint.

 

[Mrb1p]

I will wait on prospects like that. Call it the Mac Bennett syndrom. The type of player he is...and even the similar numbers in their 1st year in the NCAA"

Wasn't Bennett playing on one of the best team in the league in his first year ? I don't remember his usage. Anyway, Harris has been impressive anytime I watched him, including at the rookie camp. Skating, hands and IQ, it's there and he did really well this year.

 

[Mrb1p]

Grade A but he is already in the NHL. Not sure if he is just a Grade A or a A+... we have to wait. Evaluations change at any given point of time.

So you'd have both Poehling and Kotkaniemi in the same group ?

 

[Habs Halifax]

So you'd have both Poehling and Kotkaniemi in the same group ?

Grade A can vary (A+, A, A-) and it's hard to compare a player like Kotkaniemi who made the NHL this year vs Poehling who told the Habs he was playing another NCAA year and didn't even attend training camp. There are things to like in both players but lets not pretend that I think Poehling is better.

You ask me what Grade A, Grade B means and I told you. Harris to me is a fringe grade B prospect. That's how I see it and maybe in 12 months time he becomes a grade A. We will have to wait for a larger NCAA sample size.

 

[Whitesnake]

Wasn't Bennett playing on one of the best team in the league in his first year ? I don't remember his usage. Anyway, Harris has been impressive anytime I watched him, including at the rookie camp. Skating, hands and IQ, it's there and he did really well this year.

Don't worry, I was impressed by him too. But also remembered being impressed by Bennett as well. Just saying that I reserve my right to see how he'll do in his 2nd and 3rd season.....type of player that we will probably leave there 4 years....hope we don't though 'cause even if he doesn't become the prospect we think he can become, I see him becoming a really interesting UFA that some other will have....

And yes, MY Wolverines were pretty good during Bennett stint. Hagelin, Rust, Merrill, Pateryn, Glendening, Hunwick in net, one in the best name in hockey...SCOOTER VAUGHAN! etc.

 

[Mrb1p]

Grade A can vary (A+, A, A-) and it's hard to compare a player like Kotkaniemi who made the NHL this year vs Poehling who told the Habs he was playing another NCAA year and didn't even attend training camp. There are things to like in both players but lets not pretend that I think Poehling is better.

You ask me what Grade A, Grade B means and I told you. Harris to me is a fringe grade B prospect. That's how I see it and maybe in 12 months time he becomes a grade A. We will have to wait for a larger NCAA sample size.

The range between Kotknaiemi and Poehling is pretty large, I'd have to think B- is underselling Harris, if the range is similar.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The range between Kotknaiemi and Poehling is pretty large, I'd have to think B- is underselling Harris, if the range is similar.

Kotkaniemi = A+
Poehling = A or A-
Harris = B-

 

[montreal]

March 2019 Future Watch Habs List:

1. Nick Suzuki
2. Ryan Poehling
3. Alexander Romanov
4. Cayden Primeau
5. Noah Juulsen
6. Josh Brook
7. Jesse Ylonen
8. Cale Fleury
9. Jacob Olofsson
10. Joni Ikonen

Team ranking 10th (up from 28th last year)

Note : Team rankings include 21 and under NHLers which for the Habs includes Kotkaniemi and Mete

Major upgrade since last year.

not terrible but no way is Brook 6th imo. Harris should be in the top 10 imo.

I will wait on prospects like that. Call it the Mac Bennett syndrom. The type of player he is...and even the similar numbers in their 1st year in the NCAA"

I've watched a lot of both, they do have some similar traits but I'd say Harris is much better. They both are undersized D that rely on their great skating/mobility and they both played in the US Northeastern prep league. But Bennett was in the USHL after being drafted and Harris is on the top pairing at 18.

Agreed. My initial stance was calling Harris a grade B or C type. It's not a knock on him, it's just way to early to know and we need a larger draft + development time to nail it down. Habs certainly have a few guys that fall in the Grade B- category... could surprise or disappoint.

Think of Harris as very Mete like, a little taller, but he plays a lot like Mete. Outstanding skating, mobility, poise, he's very good defensively although it helps he likely plays with the best player on the team as his D partner. Next year will be very telling as he should be a regular on the PP after barely getting any PP time this year.

Wasn't Bennett playing on one of the best team in the league in his first year ? I don't remember his usage. Anyway, Harris has been impressive anytime I watched him, including at the rookie camp. Skating, hands and IQ, it's there and he did really well this year.

Bennett did play on one of the best teams in the NCAA in his first year, they were 29-11-4, he was on the 2nd pairing with Pateryn and they almost always played together from what I recall.

 

[Chili]

not terrible but no way is Brook 6th imo. Harris should be in the top 10 imo.

The league wide rankings are based on "a panel of NHL scouts and league executives". As far as terrible or not it's just their consensus opinions at this snapshot in time on players who aren't NHLers. Looking at their top 50 2014 list, only one player failed to play an NHL game so far (Zach Fucale) and only 11 have played less then 100 games (and only two of their top 32, one of whom Malcolm Subban is an NHL player) so there appears to be some relevance to their lists in my opinion.

 

[montreal]

The league wide rankings are based on "a panel of NHL scouts and league executives". As far as terrible or not it's just their consensus opinions at this snapshot in time on players who aren't NHLers. Looking at their top 50 2014 list, only one player failed to play an NHL game so far (Zach Fucale) and only 11 have played less then 100 games (and only two of their top 32, one of whom Malcolm Subban is an NHL player) so there appears to be some relevance to their lists in my opinion.

I don't read them so the only thing I can speak to is their Hab rankings over the years.

here's what they had in 2017, taken from the 1st page,

1. Mikael Sergachev
2. Noah Juulsen
2. Michael McCarron
4. Nikita Scherbak
5. Jacob De La Rose
6. Zach Fucale
7. Charles Hudon
8. Michael McNiven
9. Will Bitten
10 Victor Mete

So clearly they were too high on Fucale, DLR at the time. I know I had Fucale at 17 and DLR at 11.

Prospect Info: - My Top 20 (Update post #105)

Top 20

1. Mikhail Sergachev
2. Charlie Lindgren
3. Charles Hudon
4. Noah Juulsen
5. Victor Mete
6. Michael McNiven
7. Nikita Scherbak
8. Will Bitten
9. Jake Evans
10. Hayden Hawkey
11. Jacob de la Rose
12. Brett Lernout
13. Simon Bourque
14. Jeremiah Addison
15. Matt Bradley
16. Casey Staum
17. Zach Fucale
18. Lukas Vejdemo
19. Daniel Audette
20. Markus Eisenschmid

It just goes to show how hit and miss these kinds of lists are, not that in any way I am saying that I am a professional scout as I clearly am not. Just that even the pros will make lots of mistakes. I have always been really high on Brook since my first viewing of him, so I hope I'm right and they are wrong but I haven't done my season ending list yet and just started working on it.

 

[Chili]

I don't read them so the only thing I can speak to is their Hab rankings over the years.

here's what they had in 2017, taken from the 1st page,

1. Mikael Sergachev
2. Noah Juulsen
2. Michael McCarron
4. Nikita Scherbak
5. Jacob De La Rose
6. Zach Fucale
7. Charles Hudon
8. Michael McNiven
9. Will Bitten
10 Victor Mete

So clearly they were too high on Fucale, DLR at the time. I know I had Fucale at 17 and DLR at 11.

Prospect Info: - My Top 20 (Update post #105)

Top 20

1. Mikhail Sergachev
2. Charlie Lindgren
3. Charles Hudon
4. Noah Juulsen
5. Victor Mete
6. Michael McNiven
7. Nikita Scherbak
8. Will Bitten
9. Jake Evans
10. Hayden Hawkey
11. Jacob de la Rose
12. Brett Lernout
13. Simon Bourque
14. Jeremiah Addison
15. Matt Bradley
16. Casey Staum
17. Zach Fucale
18. Lukas Vejdemo
19. Daniel Audette
20. Markus Eisenschmid

It just goes to show how hit and miss these kinds of lists are, not that in any way I am saying that I am a professional scout as I clearly am not. Just that even the pros will make lots of mistakes. I have always been really high on Brook since my first viewing of him, so I hope I'm right and they are wrong but I haven't done my season ending list yet and just started working on it.

To be honest, I don't pay a lot of attention to the order of any lists. None of the players are NHLers some will make it, a few will have an impact, most will be forgotten in a few years.

I could do an analysis of their league wide lists but that would just be analyzing opinions.

As far as the Habs lists, how many of their prospects of the last ten years are in the league? Gallagher, Lekhonen, Mete...Beaulieu is on his 3rd team, De La Rose was waived, Hudon and Andrighetto are regular healthy scratchs.

I have gone back and looked at other team lists and found more NHLers, those teams have just had better success rates at the draft.

When Bergevin was asked in the last year or so the direct question, how many real prospects the Habs had, he said 'less the five'. So any list of recent years was full of players with little potential in the Habs own opinion.

Thankfully that appears to be changing though, maybe we can look back at this year's list down the road and point to several players on the Habs roster.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I don't read them so the only thing I can speak to is their Hab rankings over the years.

here's what they had in 2017, taken from the 1st page,

1. Mikael Sergachev
2. Noah Juulsen
2. Michael McCarron
4. Nikita Scherbak
5. Jacob De La Rose
6. Zach Fucale
7. Charles Hudon
8. Michael McNiven
9. Will Bitten
10 Victor Mete

So clearly they were too high on Fucale, DLR at the time. I know I had Fucale at 17 and DLR at 11.

Prospect Info: - My Top 20 (Update post #105)

Top 20

1. Mikhail Sergachev
2. Charlie Lindgren
3. Charles Hudon
4. Noah Juulsen
5. Victor Mete
6. Michael McNiven
7. Nikita Scherbak
8. Will Bitten
9. Jake Evans
10. Hayden Hawkey
11. Jacob de la Rose
12. Brett Lernout
13. Simon Bourque
14. Jeremiah Addison
15. Matt Bradley
16. Casey Staum
17. Zach Fucale
18. Lukas Vejdemo
19. Daniel Audette
20. Markus Eisenschmid

It just goes to show how hit and miss these kinds of lists are, not that in any way I am saying that I am a professional scout as I clearly am not. Just that even the pros will make lots of mistakes. I have always been really high on Brook since my first viewing of him, so I hope I'm right and they are wrong but I haven't done my season ending list yet and just started working on it.

I think a lot also depends on how you base your rankings. I used to write for Hockey's Future back when they had articles and that was always a discussion point. Some people like to value upside very highly, others are much more impressed by professionalism and how close players are. I wouldn't say, for instance, that JDLR was glaringly too high on the THN list at 5 because he's an NHL player. But obviously Mete was too low and Fucale hasn't panned out.

I think the THN list tends to lean towards players that are closer to the show.

 

[Chili]

I think a lot also depends on how you base your rankings. I used to write for Hockey's Future back when they had articles and that was always a discussion point. Some people like to value upside very highly, others are much more impressed by professionalism and how close players are. I wouldn't say, for instance, that JDLR was glaringly too high on the THN list at 5 because he's an NHL player. But obviously Mete was too low and Fucale hasn't panned out.

I think the THN list tends to lean towards players that are closer to the show.

Exactly, the criteria used for lists is different.

I posted the Sports Forecaster list last summer (which was flamed in the Timmins thread). Looking at their criteria, their focus is on the depth chart so someone who is closer to the NHL right now would be rated ahead of someone years away.

Just another way of looking at things and some food for thought.

 

[montreal]

I think a lot also depends on how you base your rankings. I used to write for Hockey's Future back when they had articles and that was always a discussion point. Some people like to value upside very highly, others are much more impressed by professionalism and how close players are. I wouldn't say, for instance, that JDLR was glaringly too high on the THN list at 5 because he's an NHL player. But obviously Mete was too low and Fucale hasn't panned out.

I think the THN list tends to lean towards players that are closer to the show.

I used to cover the Habs for HF years back when they had the HF draft magazine as I was the one that did the write up for the Habs and had them picking Kostitsyn. My payment was a free copy which I still have I think.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Think of Harris as very Mete like, a little taller, but he plays a lot like Mete. Outstanding skating, mobility, poise, he's very good defensively although it helps he likely plays with the best player on the team as his D partner. Next year will be very telling as he should be a regular on the PP after barely getting any PP time this year..

I think we will be lucky if Harris turns into Mete. Both skate very well but Mete is a one darn smart hockey player. Does Harris have it? I have no idea

 

[Roots73]

So to sum up 25 years of prospects in just two words it's gotta be... LES KUNTAR!

 

[Habsfan18]

9 NHL scouts helped piece together THN’s Future Watch top 100 prospect list this year. 4 Habs have made the top 50.

1. Alexander Romanov (10)
2. Cole Caufield (14)
3. Cayden Primeau (40)
4. Ryan Poehling (44)
5. Josh Brook
6. Mattias Norlinder
7. Jesse Ylonen
8. Jake Evans
9. Jayden Struble
10. Jordan Harris

The top 10:

1. Bowen Byram
2. Trevor Zegras
3. Igor Shesterkin
4. Karill Kaprizov
5. Spencer Knight
6. Moritz Seider
7. Dylan Cozens
8. Gregori Denisenko
9. Vasily Podkolzin
10. Alexander Romanov

 

[Chili]

Always enjoy this issue, didn't receive mine yet.

It is interesting to see the league wide comparison, just always try to take the list slottings with a grain or two of salt.

Two years ago Elias Pettersson was the #1, from memory the year before was Casey Mittlestadt . A couple of years before was somebody named Jonathan Drouin.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Always enjoy this issue, didn't receive mine yet.

It is interesting to see the league wide comparison, just always try to take the list slottings with a grain or two of salt.

Two years ago Elias Pettersson was the #1, from memory the year before was Casey Mittlestadt . A couple of years before was somebody named Jonathan Drouin.

Don't forget Nikita Filatov in 2009. OUCH.

 

[Habsfan18]

Always enjoy this issue, didn't receive mine yet.

It is interesting to see the league wide comparison, just always try to take the list slottings with a grain or two of salt.

Two years ago Elias Pettersson was the #1, from memory the year before was Casey Mittlestadt . A couple of years before was somebody named Jonathan Drouin.

I own every issue of Future Watch, the first one dating back to 1992. The 3 years prior were similar issues called “In The System”. I believe the first official top 50 started in ‘94 or ‘95. If I have time this weekend I’ll compile all of the number 1’s over the years.

The only Habs prospect to make #1 was Carey Price in 2008. Drouin did a few years back (2013 I believe) but he was Tampa’s property then.

 

[Chili]

Don't forget Nikita Filatov in 2009. OUCH.

Ouch is right. A lot of the top 25 that year didn't have much of a NHL career, only count 10 or 11 who did.

THN.com Blog: Looking at the '08 draft through Future Watch goggles - TheHockeyNews

According to the blog, the list was a blend of 22 scouts assessments. Wonder how many had Filatov first?