Waived: Svechnikov waived amongst others

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Erne and Biega are on one way contracts. That means if they picked up Sbisa, they would have to pay Biega AND Sbisa. Obviously you (and a few others) don't understand one way contracts, so we're done discussing this.

You said that signing them at all was a mistake.

They were either going to pay Erne around league minimum or they'd have some other guy on their roster at league minimum.
They were either going to pay Biega around league minimum or they'd have some other guy on their roster at league minimum.

Those guys at the bottom of the roster are nothing. I was pointing out that they were going to pay SOMEONE to be a bottom of the roster guy. They liked what they saw of Erne enough to give him the contract. They liked what they saw of Biega enough to extend him for another year. So they kept those guys around so they had two less pieces to have to replace.

What the f*** does this have to do with us not understanding one-way contracts? I wasn't talking about them being free and clear if they waived Erne or Biega, just that they signed them to league minimum deals and would have signed someone else to a league minimum deal if they didn't sign those two guys. Also, even if they had two way contracts, they'd still have to pay at a minimum 70k for those guys and probably more because it wouldn't be an ELC 2-way deal.

But even so, I don't remotely understand your point. "Oh, the Red Wings didn't pick up waiver-wire garbage! They must be pinching pennies!" Which is why they're trying to come up with a trade for Hickey, right? It's why they paid 3.2M for Staal and a second, right?

The Wings didn't pick up any guys on waivers because they didn't think any of them were worth the hassle of picking them up after they already landed Djoos. It has f***-all to do with Chris Ilitch closing the coin purse. I mean, they literally just picked up Djoos off of the waiver wire and had to waive a different guy to keep him around and pay him 1M.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

That's fantasy. Top 10 goalie???
Waiving Bernier, a soon to be UFA, if you were getting a good young goalie, would be just fine.

What, besides the fact he was taken in the 2nd round in 2014, leads you to believe that Nedeljkovic is a good young goalie?

He's 25 and hasn't been better than .916 sv% even in the minors. Since you don't seem to want to give a lot of credit to Bernier for being at .919 for 2/3rds of the season on the worst NHL team of the decade, why are you giving a 25-year old the benefit of the doubt when his best doesn't even reach that against far inferior competition. He was waived for a good reason. He was passed on by the league for a good reason. You don't unceremoniously dump veterans for shits and giggles for someone off the waiver wire.

 

[Oddbob]

Erne and Biega are on one way contracts. That means if they picked up Sbisa, they would have to pay Biega AND Sbisa. Obviously you (and a few others) don't understand one way contracts, so we're done discussing this.

Exactly, as I pointed out in my post.

 

[jkutswings]

What, besides the fact he was taken in the 2nd round in 2014, leads you to believe that Nedeljkovic is a good young goalie?

Oh come on. I think you're being way too hard on Neds. Who knows...if he gets a fresh start somewhere else and everything goes his way, one day he might even become a Thomas Greiss or a Johnathan Bernier.

 

[SirloinUB]

No. He wasn't a top 10 goalie.
Trying to be most generous to him - I started him off at Dec, 12 - to wipe out a couple 4 goal on 25 shot boners.
27 games 10-13-1, .919 save percentage and a 2.62 sv pct.

That's nice.
It's not top 10.

Bernier is nothing special. He did a nice job last year and did what he almost always does....907 sv pct is about right for him.

Jonathan Bernier has never been a top 10 goalie in the league and he didn't start being one last year with the Detroit Red Wings.

In terms of raw numbers he ranks 20th overall in the window you present however that doesnt include any minimum games requirement while Bernier played the second most of any goalie over that period facing the 5th most amount of shots. If we set the games played threshold at a starter level for this period (20 games played as 31 goalies hit this threshold) he was tied for 10th in save % and 10th (outright) in games played with a .900% or better.

He was literally top 10 for this period and as others point out that lacks any context in terms of quality of shots against, Quality scoring chances against, quality of defence in front of him etc which Id have to believe would favor bernier over guys ahead of him like Rask, Markstrom and francouz for example.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

In terms of raw numbers he ranks 20th overall in the window you present however that doesnt include any minimum games requirement while Bernier played the second most of any goalie over that period facing the 5th most amount of shots. If we set the games played threshold at a starter level for this period (20 games played as 31 goalies hit this threshold) he was tied for 10th in save % and 10th in games with a .900% or better as well.

He was literally top 10 for this period and as others point out that lacks any context in terms of quality of shots against, Quality scoring chances against, quality of defence in front of him etc which Id have to believe would favor bernier over guys like Rask, Markstrom and francouz for example.

Shhh.. Don't bring up context to MBH. The raw numbers say something and there is nothing that can possibly influence these numbers. Bernier is garbage and Nedeljkovic is a superstar.

 

[Gniwder]

I mean, they literally just picked up Djoos off of the waiver wire and had to waive a different guy to keep him around and pay him 1M.

Everyone else was on two way contracts, so it's not a $1M add. Once again, you really don't understand the difference between one and two way contracts do you? Cholo's NHL salary is $832.5k, AHL/taxi salary is $70k. Adding Djoos and demoting Cholo cost a net of $237.5k.

Also, I'd rather pay Sbisa, Kylington, or Balcers $800k than Biega or Erne. Stevie's falling in love with crap players, and that's a bad sign.

 

[Gniwder]

Exactly, as I pointed out in my post.

I think you misunderstood my previous post, the whole point was that Biega and Erne should never have been signed, because Chris won't spend money to bury players in the AHL, as evident with Abby.

So Biega and Erne signings were mistakes that's preventing the team from going after waiver claims.

 

[Gniwder]

This is still total bullshit. Only your own believings in the bubble.

They could have send Brome to taxi squad and keep Pickard up, to save money. They didn't.

Brome was already budgeted for.... not sure why Pickard is even in the discussion. Plus they're still trying to field the best possible team with their budget.

Are you seriously going to tell me that Biega is better than Kylington and Sbisa? It's of very little consequence because this team is finishing bottom 5 regardless, but I'm hoping Stevie doesn't go and resign garbage at the end of the season again.

Also, look at all of the UFA signings, other than Greiss who's making less money than Howard, the biggest signing was Stecher for 2 years at $1.7/year. If you don't think Chris is on a budget, you're the one living in a fantasy again.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Brome was already budgeted for.... not sure why Pickard is even in the discussion. Plus they're still trying to field the best possible team with their budget.

Are you seriously going to tell me that Biega is better than Kylington and Sbisa? It's of very little consequence because this team is finishing bottom 5 regardless, but I'm hoping Stevie doesn't go and resign garbage at the end of the season again.

Also, look at all of the UFA signings, other than Greiss who's making less money than Howard, the biggest signing was Stecher for 2 years at $1.7/year. If you don't think Chris is on a budget, you're the one living in a fantasy again.

I'm going to tell you that there is no material difference between Biega, Kylington, and Sbisa. Sbisa has been derided as dogcrap by every fan of every roster he's been on. He can skate ok and he's got a good attitude. That's his skills.

Kylington has cache because he was a highly thought of prospect. That's pretty much it.

Alex Biega Stats and News
Oliver Kylington Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
Luca Sbisa Stats and News

All of them. They're interchangeable. OK has 15 points in his last 86 games. Biega has 19 in his last 90. Sbisa 25 in his last 83.
Seriously, you're pissed because they're keeping Biega who you don't like and that they didn't pick up Kylington who literally hasn't even been any better.

And no, Yzerman is on a budget because the team is still f***ing dogshit even with these additions and the plan is pretty f***ing clearly to have the flexibility to restructure the cap setup right now. They signed a bunch of guys to one or two year deals for not much money so that when you hit 22-23 or 23-24, you've got Mantha on a long term deal and Larkin on a long term deal... and then about 70M for the remainder of the team. But no, you need instant gratification and anything that doesn't happen the way you want it to happen absolutely means that they're not doing anything because of money constraints.

Yzerman didn't pick up guys like Kylington and Sbisa because even if they're individually better than Biega (which is actually arguable if you look at what Biega did on an okay team and assume that Kylington and Sbisa would regress upon joining a really weak roster), they're not worth roster upheaval on the eve of the season.

E: Look at what Biega did on an underwhelming, but still better than Detroit Vancouver. Looks a hell of a lot like what Sbisa did with VGK and Kylington did in CGY.

Also "falling in love with bad players"? He signed two bottom of the roster, good soldier guys for league minimum for one year. Let's not act like he's offering the Dan Cleary special or signing Darren Helm for 5x3.85, eh?

 

[MBH]

I'm going to tell you that there is no material difference between Biega, Kylington, and Sbisa. Sbisa has been derided as dogcrap by every fan of every roster he's been on. He can skate ok and he's got a good attitude. That's his skills.

Kylington has cache because he was a highly thought of prospect. That's pretty much it.

Alex Biega Stats and News
Oliver Kylington Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
Luca Sbisa Stats and News

All of them. They're interchangeable. OK has 15 points in his last 86 games. Biega has 19 in his last 90. Sbisa 25 in his last 83.
Seriously, you're pissed because they're keeping Biega who you don't like and that they didn't pick up Kylington who literally hasn't even been any better.

And no, Yzerman is on a budget because the team is still f***ing dogshit even with these additions and the plan is pretty f***ing clearly to have the flexibility to restructure the cap setup right now. They signed a bunch of guys to one or two year deals for not much money so that when you hit 22-23 or 23-24, you've got Mantha on a long term deal and Larkin on a long term deal... and then about 70M for the remainder of the team. But no, you need instant gratification and anything that doesn't happen the way you want it to happen absolutely means that they're not doing anything because of money constraints.

Yzerman didn't pick up guys like Kylington and Sbisa because even if they're individually better than Biega (which is actually arguable if you look at what Biega did on an okay team and assume that Kylington and Sbisa would regress upon joining a really weak roster), they're not worth roster upheaval on the eve of the season.

Roster upheaval. LOL.
Rosters like these were made for upheaval.
Outside a few good raft picks - this roster is filled with throw-away players from some of the league's worst teams.

 

[Gniwder]

I'm going to tell you that there is no material difference between Biega, Kylington, and Sbisa. Sbisa has been derided as dogcrap by every fan of every roster he's been on. He can skate ok and he's got a good attitude. That's his skills.

Kylington has cache because he was a highly thought of prospect. That's pretty much it.

Alex Biega Stats and News
Oliver Kylington Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
Luca Sbisa Stats and News

All of them. They're interchangeable. OK has 15 points in his last 86 games. Biega has 19 in his last 90. Sbisa 25 in his last 83.
Seriously, you're pissed because they're keeping Biega who you don't like and that they didn't pick up Kylington who literally hasn't even been any better.

And no, Yzerman is on a budget because the team is still f***ing dogshit even with these additions and the plan is pretty f***ing clearly to have the flexibility to restructure the cap setup right now. They signed a bunch of guys to one or two year deals for not much money so that when you hit 22-23 or 23-24, you've got Mantha on a long term deal and Larkin on a long term deal... and then about 70M for the remainder of the team. But no, you need instant gratification and anything that doesn't happen the way you want it to happen absolutely means that they're not doing anything because of money constraints.

Yzerman didn't pick up guys like Kylington and Sbisa because even if they're individually better than Biega (which is actually arguable if you look at what Biega did on an okay team and assume that Kylington and Sbisa would regress upon joining a really weak roster), they're not worth roster upheaval on the eve of the season.

E: Look at what Biega did on an underwhelming, but still better than Detroit Vancouver. Looks a hell of a lot like what Sbisa did with VGK and Kylington did in CGY.

Also "falling in love with bad players"? He signed two bottom of the roster, good soldier guys for league minimum for one year. Let's not act like he's offering the Dan Cleary special or signing Darren Helm for 5x3.85, eh?

The only thing I agree with is that it's of very little consequence to the Wings because they will finish bottom 5 even if they added 2 average NHL players, much less waiver claims.

Biega literally runs away from bigger players, there's nothing that you say will convince me he's an NHL player.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Roster upheaval. LOL.
Rosters like these were made for upheaval.
Outside a few good raft picks - this roster is filled with throw-away players from some of the league's worst teams.

Right, that's what I was saying. The roster literally has two players under contract in 22-23. Two years from now, they've got no players under contract yet except Larkin and Mantha. They're still paying 2M to Abby also in that year. In the very short term, they didn't feel like swapping out Biega for Sbisa when Sbisa isn't materially any f***ing different than Biega.

Seriously, we all know that they're going to be bad. So what is the point of bellyaching that they kept a couple of bottom of the roster guys on one year deal at league minimum? It isn't because Yzerman has especial love for Erne and Biega. It's that they're literal dime-a-dozen nonentities and so are guys like Sbisa and Kylington.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

The only thing I agree with is that it's of very little consequence to the Wings because they will finish bottom 5 even if they added 2 average NHL players, much less waiver claims.

Biega literally runs away from bigger players, there's nothing that you say will convince me he's an NHL player.

??? Biega's nickname is literally "The Bulldog". Extremely alpha player. Very strong, very fast. He's a silverback in the gym.

 

[SirloinUB]

Right, that's what I was saying. The roster literally has two players under contract in 22-23. Two years from now, they've got no players under contract yet except Larkin and Mantha. They're still paying 2M to Abby also in that year. In the very short term, they didn't feel like swapping out Biega for Sbisa when Sbisa isn't materially any f***ing different than Biega.

Seriously, we all know that they're going to be bad. So what is the point of bellyaching that they kept a couple of bottom of the roster guys on one year deal at league minimum? It isn't because Yzerman has especial love for Erne and Biega. It's that they're literal dime-a-dozen nonentities and so are guys like Sbisa and Kylington.

Completely agree. The whole lot of players in discussion are literally replacement level. Doesnt matter which ones we carry.

 

[Gniwder]

??? Biega's nickname is literally "The Bulldog". Extremely alpha player. Very strong, very fast. He's a silverback in the gym.

Do you watch any games, lol? He coughed up the puck any time he was going to get hit by a larger player. I definitely would not consider him strong, and "very fast" is an exaggeration.

BTW, welcome back, we still got that Uwe Krupp bet going on, right?

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

this thread lol,

current debate: is Biega faster than a silverback on skates?

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Do you watch any games, lol? He coughed up the puck any time he was going to get hit by a larger player. I definitely would not consider him strong, and "very fast" is an exaggeration.

BTW, welcome back, we still got that Uwe Krupp bet going on, right?

Sure Biega is manlet size, but he is thick. Especially in the legs. He hustles too. He's like a bowling ball out there or a fat racoon.

Oh no, what was the bet again? I dipped out of Seattle BTW. Is that town completely wrecked yet?

 

[name]

Revisionist history.
More like Drunk History,

Why don't you compose your top 10 goalies list for the last 2/3rds of the season.

Rather than shift to this topic, could we just revisit your comment of "Waiving Bernier, a soon to be UFA, if you were getting a good young goalie, would be just fine" and agree that it wouldn't be just fine? Is it that hard to admit that Bernier performed well enough to keep around considering that he played for an absolute garbage team?

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Rather than shift to this topic, could we just revisit your comment of "Waiving Bernier, a soon to be UFA, if you were getting a good young goalie, would be just fine" and agree that it wouldn't be just fine? Is it that hard to admit that Bernier performed well enough to keep around considering that he played for an absolute garbage team?

Greiss: 232 lbs, 74 inches tall = thickness score: 3.135
Bernier: 185 lbs, 72 inches tall = thickness score: 2.569

Bernier sucks

 

[Gniwder]

Sure Biega is manlet size, but he is thick. Especially in the legs. He hustles too. He's like a bowling ball out there or a fat racoon.

Oh no, what was the bet again? I dipped out of Seattle BTW. Is that town completely wrecked yet?

You said Uwe Krupp is going to be the Wings' next coach. The bet is you change your username to "I'm Batman". If I lose the bet you wanted me to change my username to "I'm Robin".

The bet is still on because Blash hasn't been fired yet.

Greiss: 232 lbs, 74 inches tall = thickness score: 3.135
Bernier: 185 lbs, 72 inches tall = thickness score: 2.569

Bernier sucks

WTF does thickness have to do with goaltending? Howard's thick as hell, he's probably close to 300 by now.

Edit: And I really would have taken you duck hunting if you really wanted to. I've actually been teaching my bartender buddy this season.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

You said Uwe Krupp is going to be the Wings' next coach. The bet is you change your username to "I'm Batman". If I lose the bet you wanted me to change my username to "I'm Robin".

The bet is still on because Blash hasn't been fired yet.



WTF does thickness have to do with goaltending? Howard's thick as hell, he's probably close to 300 by now.

Edit: And I really would have taken you duck hunting if you really wanted to. I've actually been teaching my bartender buddy this season.

Lol nice, bet is still on then lil Robin. Krupp and Yzerman have a great relationship. Watch for him to come over the pond once this ship gets ship shape.

You're wrong about Howie you fat shamer. His thickness was only about 3.0. Greiss is the goddamn augustus gloop of the NHL. Which is what you want from your goalies since they take up more net space that way.

And I woulda gone with you. I exited back to the east coast after the whole CHAZ scenario. Last I checked there is still a "housing challenged neighbor" encampment in front of my former office building spreading dirty needles everywhere. Bad for business. Real shame. One of the most beautiful cities in the world if only they took better care of it. Now I'm on the east coast. No ducks so far. But I took 4 deer this year.

 

[MBH]

Rather than shift to this topic, could we just revisit your comment of "Waiving Bernier, a soon to be UFA, if you were getting a good young goalie, would be just fine" and agree that it wouldn't be just fine? Is it that hard to admit that Bernier performed well enough to keep around considering that he played for an absolute garbage team?

I don't think the goalie talked about would be worth it.
I specifically said I'd keep Bernier and trade him at the deadline for whatever I can get.

 

[MBH]

Right, that's what I was saying. The roster literally has two players under contract in 22-23. Two years from now, they've got no players under contract yet except Larkin and Mantha. They're still paying 2M to Abby also in that year. In the very short term, they didn't feel like swapping out Biega for Sbisa when Sbisa isn't materially any f***ing different than Biega.

Seriously, we all know that they're going to be bad. So what is the point of bellyaching that they kept a couple of bottom of the roster guys on one year deal at league minimum? It isn't because Yzerman has especial love for Erne and Biega. It's that they're literal dime-a-dozen nonentities and so are guys like Sbisa and Kylington.

I don't think Yzerman is in love with these guys (Erne/Biega).
But 1) I wouldn't have waived a young guy like Svech. 2) I wouldn't have signed old shitty veterans that block the path of players like Svech/Cholo etc.
3) I would have signed Kylington - based on nothing but what I've seen from him in Calgary.

I don't like sucking eggs for four straight years and still having the fourth oldest team in the NHL.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

I don't think Yzerman is in love with these guys (Erne/Biega).
But 1) I wouldn't have waived a young guy like Svech. 2) I wouldn't have signed old shitty veterans that block the path of players like Svech/Cholo etc.
3) I would have signed Kylington - based on nothing but what I've seen from him in Calgary.

I don't like sucking eggs for four straight years and still having the fourth oldest team in the NHL.

Honestly though... Cholo and Svech are pretty awful. I don't see either having an NHL future.