Suzuki, Caufield, Slafkovsky and Dach, it's a great forward core?

[Mrb1p]

players running the room is never good.

Imagine how bad Ducharme was

Also it was good enough for the 86 habs

 

[dirtydanglez]

Imagine how bad Ducharme was

Also it was good enough for the 86 habs

i think it says more about the players.

 

[LeafsNation149]

Yeah this did not age well



In what world does winning the Hart automatically make him better? Let me guess, Hall is better than Tavares and Marner as well because he won the Hart?

I can't tell if you're trolling or dumb lol.

In what world does winning an MVP of the season award make him better than a 21 year old that peaked with 43 points? Hmm, I wonder.

 

[ottawa]

I can't tell if you're trolling or dumb lol.

In what world does winning an MVP of the season award make him better than a 21 year old that peaked with 43 points? Hmm, I wonder.

By that logic, Hall > Marner since all we care about is the Hart.

I'll also be honest, I don't give a flying f*** about the MVP award. I know it's tied to his 93 point season but that's what I'd run with instead of the Hart trophy.

I'd say Hall > Caufield based on point production over their careers but I'd take 21 year old Caufield over 21 year old Hall personally.

 

[LeafsNation149]

By that logic, Hall > Marner since all we care about is the Hart.

I'll also be honest, I don't give a flying f*** about the MVP award. I know it's tied to his 93 point season but that's what I'd run with instead of the Hart trophy.

I'd say Hall > Caufield based on point production over their careers but I'd take 21 year old Caufield over 21 year old Hall personally.

1. Yes Hall's peak is better than Marner's. I don't think there is anyone that will disagree with that.

2. Having a Hart trophy season is a lot more impressive than 93 points.

3. You taking 21 year old Caufield over 21 year old Hall tells me everything I need to know about you lol.

 

[ottawa]

1. Yes Hall's peak is better than Marner's. I don't think there is anyone that will disagree with that.

2. Having a Hart trophy season is a lot more impressive than 93 points.

3. You taking 21 year old Caufield over 21 year old Hall tells me everything I need to know about you lol.

1. Peak marner > peak Hall...make a poll

2. The Hart trophy is a joke, it's voted on by the press. The Ted Lindsay is more indicative of who the MVP is...also the Hart trophy was debated that year even on these boards.

3. sure lol

 

[Xspyrit]

I've heard that excuse a million times. It's always the coach's fault. I don't buy it that much. The Sens have been bad for a long time now.

Can't always blame the coaches

Wait, so you have literally seen a complete 180 from the guys you are praising here just after a coaching change but you still say this?

- Also, in your last post on the Habs board :

"Barron has actually been great in his 10 or so games despite playing on a mess of a team. Sure he makes mistakes but who wouldnt on that terrible no structure team"

Looks like you're all over the place...

And it's not an excuse, anyone who understands hockey at a technical level will be able to identify the systemic issues when watching Sens games. I have been noticing system failures basically since DJ Smith first day as the coach. But I like the guy, just not very efficient 2 way hockey

Also, "The Sens haven't been bad for a long time now", they just went through a scorched earth rebuild. Do you know what that means?

From the team that lost 5 YEARS AGO in 2017 ECF Game 7 double OT against the Penguins (future champs), 100% of the players on that roster were gone 2 years later. Decision to rebuild (Melnyk was disgruntled because of attendance issues, etc) was made in 2018, Brady Tkachuk was the team first pick of the rebuild, just a bit over 4 years ago

Of course they weren't going to be good right away since they have relied on young players the whole way. This is what they were going into the year with last season :

Tim Stutzle (19 y/o)
Shane Pinto (21 y/o)
Josh Norris (22 y/o)
Brady Tkachuk (22 y/o)
Alex Formenton (22 y/o)
Erik Brannstrom (22 y/o)
Drake Batherson (23 y/o)
Thomas Chabot (24 y/o)

With Connor Brown, Artem Zub and Nick Paul the only good veterans (but not necessarily the most experienced. Zub played in the KHL until 25 y/o for example)

Btw Harris and Xhekaj are not pieces u just leave aside. Watch them play. And I still won't consider players older than 24 when considering a young core in rebuilds.
Debrincat is turning 25 in a month. He's the present, not part of a rebuilding core.

ok let's not consider these pieces then. Be sure to remember that in a year when Suzuki will be too old

Quick quick, Montreal rebuild is about to expire!


Damn, the funniest is that you don't realize how funny you are

 

[Legend123]

Wait, so you have literally seen a complete 180 from the guys you are praising here just after a coaching change but you still say this?

- Also, in your last post on the Habs board :

"Barron has actually been great in his 10 or so games despite playing on a mess of a team. Sure he makes mistakes but who wouldnt on that terrible no structure team"

Looks like you're all over the place...

And it's not an excuse, anyone who understands hockey at a technical level will be able to identify the systemic issues when watching Sens games. I have been noticing system failures basically since DJ Smith first day as the coach. But I like the guy, just not very efficient 2 way hockey

Also, "The Sens haven't been bad for a long time now", they just went through a scorched earth rebuild. Do you know what that means?

From the team that lost 5 YEARS AGO in 2017 ECF Game 7 double OT against the Penguins (future champs), 100% of the players on that roster were gone 2 years later. Decision to rebuild (Melnyk was disgruntled because of attendance issues, etc) was made in 2018, Brady Tkachuk was the team first pick of the rebuild, just a bit over 4 years ago

Of course they weren't going to be good right away since they have relied on young players the whole way. This is what they were going into the year with last season :

Tim Stutzle (19 y/o)
Shane Pinto (21 y/o)
Josh Norris (22 y/o)
Brady Tkachuk (22 y/o)
Alex Formenton (22 y/o)
Erik Brannstrom (22 y/o)
Drake Batherson (23 y/o)
Thomas Chabot (24 y/o)

With Connor Brown, Artem Zub and Nick Paul the only good veterans (but not necessarily the most experienced. Zub played in the KHL until 25 y/o for example)



ok let's not consider these pieces then. Be sure to remember that in a year when Suzuki will be too old

Quick quick, Montreal rebuild is about to expire!


Damn, the funniest is that you don't realize how funny you are

The hope is that the habs rebuild will take just another year or so. So if Suzuki is 24 next season, it doesnt matter since we are not rebuilding anymore at that point, we would be going for it. If we continue to suck for another 3 years, then yeah he wont be part of the young core but instead the 'vet' core. Nothing wrong with that. Vet cores are the present, young cores are the future is the way i see it.

I dont see what Barron has to do with the Sens. Hes playing good on a bad team. So are a few young sens.

Are you gonna advocate for a sens rebuild with Chabot, Batherson and Debrincat as the core piece of that rebuild? You dont rebuild with those pieces, you win in the present with them.

lastly, not every team magically turns it around after a coaching change. Using the Habs as an example isnt looking at the entire picture. I wish the Sens the best, esp if they fire the coach cuz I dont want Bedard to join your core. So hopefully ur right and the sens fix all of their many issues.

 

[Haatley]

Big -6 for the top line last night. Not surprised there aren't masses of Habs fans here this morning bragging. Caufield with some brutal giveaways.

 

[bobholly39]

I'll certainly disagree with it. Hall had ONE great season and scored 39 goals which is more than Marner and got a Hart, which Marner does not have. But a "peak" is more than just the blip of one season. Marner has paced for 95-ish points a season for 4 years straight now, and is headed for it again this season. Hall never came close to that.

Yeah - single season peak, definitely edge to Hall. I still dont think he deserved the Hart, i only had him about 4th - but its still better than any single season by Marner

But Hall has very little outside of the 1 season. Marners overall peak will be seen as higher, and certainly his prime

 

[MXD]

What I think all rational hockey fans can agree on, is that Cole Caufield is nowhere close to either one of them(Hall or Marner) and likely never will be.

What all rational hockey fans agree on is that you should definitely not be talking for us.

 

[bobholly39]

What I think all rational hockey fans can agree on, is that Cole Caufield is nowhere close to either one of them(Hall or Marner) and likely never will be.

1. No, Caufield is nowhere near either one yet this early in his career
2. No one was saying he was, the conversation started when someone made the illogical claim that Caufield couldn't ever pass Hall without a hart.
3. You and "rational" around a topic involving Habs doesn't go hand in hand

 

[MXD]

This has made me think of a really great life hack: If you're a Montreal fan, and you're thinking about a bunch of your mediocre players as maybe being a "great core", you can save time, effort & embarrassment by simply not doing that.

Like & follow for more great tips like this.

You don't understand greatness anyways. Something something first round.

 

[Xspyrit]

The hope is that the habs rebuild will take just another year or so. So if Suzuki is 24 next season, it doesnt matter since we are not rebuilding anymore at that point, we would be going for it. If we continue to suck for another 3 years, then yeah he wont be part of the young core but instead the 'vet' core. Nothing wrong with that. Vet cores are the present, young cores are the future is the way i see it.

Why do you want it to happen so fast? The better thing that could have happened to Montreal is to bottom out for 2 more seasons.

Sens did a quick rebuild after their 2010-11 season (which was their worst since 1996-97) but they actually made the playoffs right away in 2011-12 (lost vs 1st seed Rangers in 7 games, after leading the series 3-2, last game ending up 2-1 New York), and again in 2012-13 (even won a playoffs round by embarrassing another Canadian team). This was the young core talent :

Mika Zibanejad (19)
Mark Stone (20)
Kyle Turris (23)
Mike Hoffman (23)
Jakob Silfverberg (22)
Jean-Gabriel Pageau (20)
Erik Karlsson (22)
Jared Cowen (22)
Patrick Wiercioch (22)
Robin Lehner (21)
Ben Bishop (26)

I listed Cowen and Wiercioch as they looked very promising early on. Also listed Bishop as 26 is young for a goalie. As you can see, this is absolutely not comparable to the Habs current core you're talking about. Just Zibanejad, Stone, Turris, Hoffman and Karlsson... And on top of it they had some great vets not too old yet :

Marc Methot (27)
Milan Michálek (28)
Jason Spezza (29)
Craig Anderson (31)

and some older but great vets :

Chris Neil (33)
Chris Phillips (34)
Sergei Gonchar (38)
Daniel Alfredsson (40)

Things looked extremely promising and they had a great season in 2014-15 but things went sideways when some of these aged and/or got diminished by injuries (plus ownership/money issues, plus Bryan Murray sickness). They peaked in 2016-17 with the ECF but Dorion had also started doing his own damage (Zibanejad) so it would maybe have been better to continue bottoming out in 2011-12 and maybe even 2012-13

I dont see what Barron has to do with the Sens. Hes playing good on a bad team. So are a few young sens.

Hmmm... I am not talking about Barron lol... You seriously didn't get why I quoted that? I mean, I even highlighted it for you... (clue : the "coaching excuse" you accused me of?)

Unless you think that "terrible no structure team" has nothing to do with coaching? Which would just demonstrate a lack of hockey knowledge/understanding

Are you gonna advocate for a sens rebuild with Chabot, Batherson and Debrincat as the core piece of that rebuild? You dont rebuild with those pieces, you win in the present with them.

lastly, not every team magically turns it around after a coaching change. Using the Habs as an example isnt looking at the entire picture. I wish the Sens the best, esp if they fire the coach cuz I dont want Bedard to join your core. So hopefully ur right and the sens fix all of their many issues.

Yes, Chabot, Batherson and Debrincat are 25, 24 and 24, they are absolutely part of the core going forward (not confirmed for DeCat yet). They just aged a year over Suzuki but it doesn't matter, Sens want to start being competitive now. Problem is management and coaching staff are clueless.

Yes it's not guaranteed that Sens will "turn it around" with a coaching change but that depends if the right coaching staff is hired... but again, for anyone who understands hockey, it's very easy to see that coaching is the main issue in Ottawa. They're talking about it on TV coverage during every intermission. IIRC they started doing that a while ago but even more this season. I started at the beginning of 2020-21

 

[Legend123]

Why do you want it to happen so fast? The better thing that could have happened to Montreal is to bottom out for 2 more seasons.

Sens did a quick rebuild after their 2010-11 season (which was their worst since 1996-97) but they actually made the playoffs right away in 2011-12 (lost vs 1st seed Rangers in 7 games, after leading the series 3-2, last game ending up 2-1 New York), and again in 2012-13 (even won a playoffs round by embarrassing another Canadian team). This was the young core talent :

Mika Zibanejad (19)
Mark Stone (20)
Kyle Turris (23)
Mike Hoffman (23)
Jakob Silfverberg (22)
Jean-Gabriel Pageau (20)
Erik Karlsson (22)
Jared Cowen (22)
Patrick Wiercioch (22)
Robin Lehner (21)
Ben Bishop (26)

I listed Cowen and Wiercioch as they looked very promising early on. Also listed Bishop as 26 is young for a goalie. As you can see, this is absolutely not comparable to the Habs current core you're talking about. Just Zibanejad, Stone, Turris, Hoffman and Karlsson... And on top of it they had some great vets not too old yet :

Marc Methot (27)
Milan Michálek (28)
Jason Spezza (29)
Craig Anderson (31)

and some older but great vets :

Chris Neil (33)
Chris Phillips (34)
Sergei Gonchar (38)
Daniel Alfredsson (40)

Things looked extremely promising and they had a great season in 2014-15 but things went sideways when some of these aged and/or got diminished by injuries (plus ownership/money issues, plus Bryan Murray sickness). They peaked in 2016-17 with the ECF but Dorion had also started doing his own damage (Zibanejad) so it would maybe have been better to continue bottoming out in 2011-12 and maybe even 2012-13



Hmmm... I am not talking about Barron lol... You seriously didn't get why I quoted that? I mean, I even highlighted it for you... (clue : the "coaching excuse" you accused me of?)

Unless you think that "terrible no structure team" has nothing to do with coaching? Which would just demonstrate a lack of hockey knowledge/understanding



Yes, Chabot, Batherson and Debrincat are 25, 24 and 24, they are absolutely part of the core going forward (not confirmed for DeCat yet). They just aged a year over Suzuki but it doesn't matter, Sens want to start being competitive now. Problem is management and coaching staff are clueless.

Yes it's not guaranteed that Sens will "turn it around" with a coaching change but that depends if the right coaching staff is hired... but again, for anyone who understands hockey, it's very easy to see that coaching is the main issue in Ottawa. They're talking about it on TV coverage during every intermission. IIRC they started doing that a while ago but even more this season. I started at the beginning of 2020-21

That sens core definitely underperformed big time. It could have been a top tier core and elite team... in hindsight tho too much was relied upon Karlsson. The habs have difference makers up front and on D. So hopefully with another top 5 pick, we will be alot more balanced.

Another year or so would mean a 2 to 3 year rebuild (2022 slaf, 2023 2024). That's not too quick. Ideally, we pick 1OA in 2023, then top 10 in 2024 as we continue to improve year over year. Than in 2025, we compete for a playoff spot. Whether we make it ot not isn't important. Our development as a team and winning culture would be.
The last thing you want is to be stuck with a losing culture like the Sabres and now ironically the Sens. Losing cultures are very hard to get rid of. Just ask the Sabres. They've tried a million coaching changes, they still tank year after year and not on purpose.

That trio of Chabot etc are certainly good and a core u try to compete now. You can't undergo another 3+ year rebuild with them. You'll just be wasting their prime yeara.

 

[Xspyrit]

That sens core definitely underperformed big time. It could have been a top tier core and elite team... in hindsight tho too much was relied upon Karlsson. The habs have difference makers up front and on D. So hopefully with another top 5 pick, we will be alot more balanced.

Another year or so would mean a 2 to 3 year rebuild (2022 slaf, 2023 2024). That's not too quick. Ideally, we pick 1OA in 2023, then top 10 in 2024 as we continue to improve year over year. Than in 2025, we compete for a playoff spot. Whether we make it ot not isn't important. Our development as a team and winning culture would be.

Money was not invested correctly and enough to properly support these players. Karlsson has had some support through the years (Kuba, Gonchar, Methot, Phaneuf, etc) but never enough at the same time and often for not very long as these guys were aging. Let's not forget how Sens ownership/finances have been for a decade+

Also, injuries have derailed Ottawa's landscape for a long time. For example, Kyle Turris never was the same player after the "gumpy incident" he suffered in the 2015-16 season. He was only 26. Injuries made Marc Methot decline at 30 y/o. Jared Cowen never looked nearly as good as he did in his rookie season after missing the 2012-13 campaign. Sens chose Robin Lehner over Ben Bishop as the goalie of the future but that couldn't materialize because of his mental health issues. Karlsson, Bobby Ryan and Mark Stone injuries, Etc

IMO Habs need to bottom out this year and possibly next, NHL competition is way too ferocious to take shortcuts.

The last thing you want is to be stuck with a losing culture like the Sabres and now ironically the Sens. Losing cultures are very hard to get rid of. Just ask the Sabres. They've tried a million coaching changes, they still tank year after year and not on purpose.

That trio of Chabot etc are certainly good and a core u try to compete now. You can't undergo another 3+ year rebuild with them. You'll just be wasting their prime yeara.

You keep harping on the Sens "losing culture" but you don't realize how successful that franchise has been (without winning the Cup unfortunately) from 1996-97 to 2016-17, by making the playoffs 16 times out of 20 seasons (and 1 lockout season in 2004-05 where they had a CRAZY GOOD roster). The playoffs success was a bit disappointing but still made 2 ECFs and 1 SCF. Until Brady Tkachuk, they didn't draft Top-5 due to their position in the standings for 20+ years

They didn't have to go into a full rebuild in 2018 because the core was still young enough (I mean, look at Karlsson, Stone, Duchene these days) but Melnyk decided it that way. Your "losing culture" argument makes no sense, again they went through a scorched earth rebuild, of course they weren't going to start winning right away. You probably just have no idea what it means, even though I have explained.

That being said, I have been saying for a while that to take the next step, they will need new ownership who will bring new management who will bring new coaching staff. They will still most likely finish ahead of the Habs this season based on pure talent but it's still wasted potential until changes are made.

Finally, I think you're downplaying the injuries Sens have had so far. Talbot was the easiest to manage but losing Norris (11 games now) is like the Habs losing Suzuki, he's a really big piece and probably the best Sens forward defensively

They also have been without Alex Formenton all season, while not because of injuries. He is the 2nd fastest player in the league behind McDavid and lead the league in short handed goals last year in his 22 y/o rookie season. His 13 other goals were at even strength, no PP goals/points. And Zub has missed 9 games too, best RHD, best defensive D-man by far (not named Sanderson). And now Chabot. Team still had way better advanced stats than their record shows.

 

[Legend123]

Money was not invested correctly and enough to properly support these players. Karlsson has had some support through the years (Kuba, Gonchar, Methot, Phaneuf, etc) but never enough at the same time and often for not very long as these guys were aging. Let's not forget how Sens ownership/finances have been for a decade+

Also, injuries have derailed Ottawa's landscape for a long time. For example, Kyle Turris never was the same player after the "gumpy incident" he suffered in the 2015-16 season. He was only 26. Injuries made Marc Methot decline at 30 y/o. Jared Cowen never looked nearly as good as he did in his rookie season after missing the 2012-13 campaign. Sens chose Robin Lehner over Ben Bishop as the goalie of the future but that couldn't materialize because of his mental health issues. Karlsson, Bobby Ryan and Mark Stone injuries, Etc

IMO Habs need to bottom out this year and possibly next, NHL competition is way too ferocious to take shortcuts.



You keep harping on the Sens "losing culture" but you don't realize how successful that franchise has been (without winning the Cup unfortunately) from 1996-97 to 2016-17, by making the playoffs 16 times out of 20 seasons (and 1 lockout season in 2004-05 where they had a CRAZY GOOD roster). The playoffs success was a bit disappointing but still made 2 ECFs and 1 SCF. Until Brady Tkachuk, they didn't draft Top-5 due to their position in the standings for 20+ years

They didn't have to go into a full rebuild in 2018 because the core was still young enough (I mean, look at Karlsson, Stone, Duchene these days) but Melnyk decided it that way. Your "losing culture" argument makes no sense, again they went through a scorched earth rebuild, of course they weren't going to start winning right away. You probably just have no idea what it means, even though I have explained.

That being said, I have been saying for a while that to take the next step, they will need new ownership who will bring new management who will bring new coaching staff. They will still most likely finish ahead of the Habs this season based on pure talent but it's still wasted potential until changes are made.

Finally, I think you're downplaying the injuries Sens have had so far. Talbot was the easiest to manage but losing Norris (11 games now) is like the Habs losing Suzuki, he's a really big piece and probably the best Sens forward defensively

They also have been without Alex Formenton all season, while not because of injuries. He is the 2nd fastest player in the league behind McDavid and lead the league in short handed goals last year in his 22 y/o rookie season. His 13 other goals were at even strength, no PP goals/points. And Zub has missed 9 games too, best RHD, best defensive D-man by far (not named Sanderson). And now Chabot. Team still had way better advanced stats than their record shows.

Its already been 5 years since the teardown. This is year 6. Thats a lot of years for a rebuild. The more seasons they waste the likelier that a losing culture is gonna take reign. How many years are they gonna take. How many years u expect before making the playoffs? Or at least compete for them?

So yeah for the habs I really hope we don't get lost in our rebuild. One more year after this one max before we start competing and winning. I'm a big fan of the ideal 3 year rebuild. This is year 2. We also drafted a couple of stars before the official rebuild if u may in Caufield and Guhle.

Lastly, with all respect to Norris, Habs losing Suzuki would be a much bigger blow. He brings so much more than the better offense. Leadership, elite defense, elite hockey iq that spreads to his linemates and the number 1 C. Without Suzuki, we will lost almost all of our games.

 

[Xspyrit]

Its already been 5 years since the teardown. This is year 6. Thats a lot of years for a rebuild. The more seasons they waste the likelier that a losing culture is gonna take reign. How many years are they gonna take. How many years u expect before making the playoffs? Or at least compete for them?

So yeah for the habs I really hope we don't get lost in our rebuild. One more year after this one max before we start competing and winning. I'm a big fan of the ideal 3 year rebuild. This is year 2. We also drafted a couple of stars before the official rebuild if u may in Caufield and Guhle.

2017-18 : Sens traded for Matt Duchene in November. After the first 2 games with him, Sens were 8-3-5 and things were looking good as they were dominating their opponents. But once coming back from Sweden, the season went sideways for all kind of reasons (one being a locker room divide, Karlsson vs Hoffman girlfriends story notably)

2018 : in February, Melnyk was still pissed (over attendance issues) and decided to go full rebuild. The Sens then proceed in a complete roster teardown (firesale) that started at the deadline, continued in the offseason (Karlsson traded in September), then Duchene, Stone, etc and finally was finished with Pageau trade in February 2020. Seasons 2018-19 and 2019-20 were obviously not going to be competitive. They were still "selling" players and keeping the roster cost under the cap floor

2020-21 : At that point they only had Chabot and Tkachuk (plus Paul and White) as non-rookies but Norris, Batherson, Stutzle and Zub all started playing that season. They unfortunately started the season badly but finished ONLY 8 pts behind Montreal for the last playoffs spot in the North. If the season wasn't shortened by Covid (aka with a bit more time), they would have most likely leapfrogged them

2021-22 : Now that some of the young core players finally started graduating, maybe it would have been more realistic to see this team compete for a playoffs spot but getting screwed early by covid (when games weren't canceled) plus a rash of key injuries (Batherson missed 36 games for example) were enough to derail their season. This as the FIRST SEASON where you could say the results were a disappointment

2022-23 : no matter what you say, it's still very early in the season. They have been without Formenton, Norris and Zub for the most part and now Thomas Chabot. They are still just 3 games below 0.500, have positive goal differential and pretty good advanced stats in general. Yes they need to compete for a playoffs spot all the way but until you'll have to wait before drawing your conclusions about a "losing culture"

Lastly, with all respect to Norris, Habs losing Suzuki would be a much bigger blow. He brings so much more than the better offense. Leadership, elite defense, elite hockey iq that spreads to his linemates and the number 1 C. Without Suzuki, we will lost almost all of our games.

You say this but this below shows the opposite.

 

[Mrb1p]

2017-18 : Sens traded for Matt Duchene in November. After the first 2 games with him, Sens were 8-3-5 and things were looking good as they were dominating their opponents. But once coming back from Sweden, the season went sideways for all kind of reasons (one being a locker room divide, Karlsson vs Hoffman girlfriends story notably)

2018 : in February, Melnyk was still pissed (over attendance issues) and decided to go full rebuild. The Sens then proceed in a complete roster teardown (firesale) that started at the deadline, continued in the offseason (Karlsson traded in September), then Duchene, Stone, etc and finally was finished with Pageau trade in February 2020. Seasons 2018-19 and 2019-20 were obviously not going to be competitive. They were still "selling" players and keeping the roster cost under the cap floor

2020-21 : At that point they only had Chabot and Tkachuk (plus Paul and White) as non-rookies but Norris, Batherson, Stutzle and Zub all started playing that season. They unfortunately started the season badly but finished ONLY 8 pts behind Montreal for the last playoffs spot in the North. If the season wasn't shortened by Covid (aka with a bit more time), they would have most likely leapfrogged them

2021-22 : Now that some of the young core players finally started graduating, maybe it would have been more realistic to see this team compete for a playoffs spot but getting screwed early by covid (when games weren't canceled) plus a rash of key injuries (Batherson missed 36 games for example) were enough to derail their season. This as the FIRST SEASON where you could say the results were a disappointment

2022-23 : no matter what you say, it's still very early in the season. They have been without Formenton, Norris and Zub for the most part and now Thomas Chabot. They are still just 3 games below 0.500, have positive goal differential and pretty good advanced stats in general. Yes they need to compete for a playoffs spot all the way but until you'll have to wait before drawing your conclusions about a "losing culture"



You say this but this below shows the opposite.

Those Jfresh are pretty good... Why exactly are you using 21-22 extended for Suzuki but not for Norris ? Why are you not showing his underlying ? Suzuki is having an unsustainable stretch right now, he's on a 105 points pace. Norris had an unsustainable season and he barely outproduced Suzuki while Suzuki had the worst stretch of his career in the early season.

 

[Xspyrit]

Those Jfresh are pretty good... Why exactly are you using 21-22 extended for Suzuki but not for Norris ? Why are you not showing his underlying ? Suzuki is having an unsustainable stretch right now, he's on a 105 points pace. Norris had an unsustainable season and he barely outproduced Suzuki while Suzuki had the worst stretch of his career in the early season.

I am showing what I have access to. I am not subscribed or anything

Suzuki is playing really great right now. Norris points were not there yet but he was playing extremely well too before getting injured. The comparison will have to wait until next season

 

[Legend123]

2017-18 : Sens traded for Matt Duchene in November. After the first 2 games with him, Sens were 8-3-5 and things were looking good as they were dominating their opponents. But once coming back from Sweden, the season went sideways for all kind of reasons (one being a locker room divide, Karlsson vs Hoffman girlfriends story notably)

2018 : in February, Melnyk was still pissed (over attendance issues) and decided to go full rebuild. The Sens then proceed in a complete roster teardown (firesale) that started at the deadline, continued in the offseason (Karlsson traded in September), then Duchene, Stone, etc and finally was finished with Pageau trade in February 2020. Seasons 2018-19 and 2019-20 were obviously not going to be competitive. They were still "selling" players and keeping the roster cost under the cap floor

2020-21 : At that point they only had Chabot and Tkachuk (plus Paul and White) as non-rookies but Norris, Batherson, Stutzle and Zub all started playing that season. They unfortunately started the season badly but finished ONLY 8 pts behind Montreal for the last playoffs spot in the North. If the season wasn't shortened by Covid (aka with a bit more time), they would have most likely leapfrogged them

2021-22 : Now that some of the young core players finally started graduating, maybe it would have been more realistic to see this team compete for a playoffs spot but getting screwed early by covid (when games weren't canceled) plus a rash of key injuries (Batherson missed 36 games for example) were enough to derail their season. This as the FIRST SEASON where you could say the results were a disappointment

2022-23 : no matter what you say, it's still very early in the season. They have been without Formenton, Norris and Zub for the most part and now Thomas Chabot. They are still just 3 games below 0.500, have positive goal differential and pretty good advanced stats in general. Yes they need to compete for a playoffs spot all the way but until you'll have to wait before drawing your conclusions about a "losing culture"



You say this but this below shows the opposite.

Every team goes through hardships. At this point they sound more like excuses. This is year 6. I truly hope we don't waste half a decade+ in our rebuild. 3 years I hope.

I really doubt many would argue Norris would be having a similar impact as Suzuki thus far. I think he had just 2 points in 5 games. Suzuki had like 6 or 7. Suzuki is producing at a 100+ point pace, in addition to elite defense iq and leadership. Without him, we would be staring at the bottom. I wish the NHL had a WAR Stat like mlb has...

 

[Hockeyholic]

Good, not grea core.

I just don't see any game breakers yet. Nothing elite.

Maybe that changes.

But they will need top tier D, some very good wingers sans Caufield, and a very good goalie to compete in the future.

Centre is still a question mark. Suzuki isn't on the level of recent cup winning #1 C's. Crosby, Backstrom, ROR, Point, and MacKinnon.

It's in the early stages of the Habs rebuild. They need to be patient and not rush a rebuild to avoid fan apathy. If they average 15-16 k per game, it is what it is.

Overall, the direction is good. Yet a ways to go.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

Good, not grea core.

I just don't see any game breakers yet. Nothing elite.

Maybe that changes.

But they will need top tier D, some very good wingers sans Caufield, and a very good goalie to compete in the future.

Centre is still a question mark. Suzuki isn't on the level of recent cup winning #1 C's. Crosby, Backstrom, ROR, Point, and MacKinnon.

It's in the early stages of the Habs rebuild. They need to be patient and not rush a rebuild to avoid fan apathy. If they average 15-16 k per game, it is what it is.

Overall, the direction is good. Yet a ways to go.

Is 15-16 k in mtl even in the realm of possibility? That's 20-25 % empty, I can't see it unless something really bad happen like an off ice scandal or some (even more ) ridiculous inflation

 

[Hockeyholic]

Is 15-16 k in mtl even in the realm of possibility? That's 20-25 % empty, I can't see it unless something really bad happen like an off ice scandal or some (even more ) ridiculous inflation

There were announced crowds of 15k or so last season. That was without covid restrictions.

Maybe attendance is better this year.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

There were announced crowds of 15k or so last season. That was without covid restrictions.

Maybe attendance is better this year.

Well Quebec had some of the strictest restrictions in the world at one point, and I think that was pretty normal for the Covid era, lots of people staying in, not going to large scale events etc.

They are rolling at almost 21k/game this year, can't see them dropping 25% on that as this team progresses, or ever tbh baring another large scale pandemic or crisis