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Strachan The Moron Strikes Again

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Mess

Mess

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arnie said:
"It was American President Franklin D. Roosevelt who said, "Speak softly, and carry a big stick."

The idiot can't get anything right.

[url="http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Strachan/2005/03/02/947427.html"]http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Strachan/2005/03/02/947427.html[/url]
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How do these to two things work together

Bettman said "We are going to invite the NHLPA back to the table soon."

"There are lots of options but I'm not interested in going into them right now," Bettman said.
Bettman also said he had no new offers to make to the PA, and was asked why there would be any hope of these two sides, which have been arguing these issues for years, reaching a settlement.

"Sometimes, work stoppages change perceptions," he said.

Isn't this a dreadful deja vue of that failed Saturday meeting .. ??

I thought Bettman said the slate is clean and they are beginning again and linkage is back on .. If you are not presenting anything new .. WHY DO YOU NEED A MEETING ??
 

Hawker14

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strachan, mckenzie, blah blah blah.

since reporting has become about the business instead of the game, i'm hard pressed to find a legitimate hockey reporter to read, other than perhaps conway.

oh well, i guess this is what happens when lawyers get involved.
 

Hawker14

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The Messenger said:
How do these to two things work together

Bettman said "We are going to invite the NHLPA back to the table soon."

"There are lots of options but I'm not interested in going into them right now," Bettman said.
Bettman also said he had no new offers to make to the PA, and was asked why there would be any hope of these two sides, which have been arguing these issues for years, reaching a settlement.

"Sometimes, work stoppages change perceptions," he said.

Isn't this a dreadful deja vue of that failed Saturday meeting .. ??

I thought Bettman said the slate is clean and they are beginning again and linkage is back on .. If you are not presenting anything new .. WHY DO YOU NEED A MEETING ??
Click to expand...


because bettman is the wrong person for the job. it takes a man to be in charge, not a little toad with "little man's syndrome".
 
Mess

Mess

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hawker14 said:
because bettman is the wrong person for the job. it takes a man to be in charge, not a little toad with "little man's syndrome".
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That actually makes far more sense then what Bettman said ..

In fact had he said your line I would have been more meaningful, and more productive to the process..
 
txomisc

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The Messenger said:
How do these to two things work together

Bettman said "We are going to invite the NHLPA back to the table soon."

"There are lots of options but I'm not interested in going into them right now," Bettman said.
Bettman also said he had no new offers to make to the PA, and was asked why there would be any hope of these two sides, which have been arguing these issues for years, reaching a settlement.

"Sometimes, work stoppages change perceptions," he said.

Isn't this a dreadful deja vue of that failed Saturday meeting .. ??

I thought Bettman said the slate is clean and they are beginning again and linkage is back on .. If you are not presenting anything new .. WHY DO YOU NEED A MEETING ??
Click to expand...

Umm, I dont know, maybe because you have to get a deal done and meetings are the way to do it? Would you rather they just never meet and therefore never reach an agreement?
 
Mess

Mess

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txomisc said:
Umm, I dont know, maybe because you have to get a deal done and meetings are the way to do it? Would you rather they just never meet and therefore never reach an agreement?
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Isn't that what the NHLPA tried on that last Saturday in order to UNCANCEL the season and the NHL was only interested in proposals and not talk .. Isn't that what offended Mario and Wayne ..

and the quotes says the NHL "Sometimes, work stoppages change perceptions," he said.

I'll translate for you .. I means that the NHL wants to call a meeting and see if the NHLPA is ready to cave now that they have sometime to think about it , but the NHL has nothing new to offer the PA.

If you remember .. The NHL offered 42.5 Final offer ..

Then NHLPA responded with an offer at 52 Mil .. NHL Rejected
Then NHLPA responded with an offer at 49 Mil ...NHL Rejected

Then the NHL invites the Union to NY expecting another offer .. and Mario and Wayne felt they mislead

Now the NHL wants invite them again ..

Does the NHL have a clue how negoiations work even ??

Don't you think it might be about time the NHL offered something or changed something . .??
 
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Drury_Sakic

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The Messenger said:
Don't you think it might be about time the NHL offered something or changed something . .??
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Yes.. I actually agree that the NHL is the side that needs to make the next move towards the middle..

BUT..

After canning the season, the only way the NHL could have brought it back was if the players were going to go WAY out of their way to make it happen.. I don't think many of us here think that the league was the side that should have made a move on Sat. simply going off of who's turn it was...No way the NHL can undo what it did on Wed. by making another offer and making the league, players, and fans look worse that they already did/are/will...

And if anyone still thinks that the NHL's offer on Wed. was final.. well...

Again.. I go back to my thought process that the NHLPA should have agreed to the 42.5...broke for lunch.. announced that the two sides had agreed in principle to the 42.5.. then gone in and asked the NHL to change a few things regarding what counted against a cap(such as IR players and the other things discussed on another thread) and perhaps one or two other burning issues they had... and if the NHL had moved on them.. great.. if not.. you come out of the meeting at the end of the day and say "look, we met the owners at 42.5, but they scuttled the deal over a few little issues"...

Point, set, match for NHLPA IMO...

;)
 
Mess

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Drury_Sakic said:
Yes.. I actually agree that the NHL is the side that needs to make the next move towards the middle..

BUT..

After canning the season, the only way the NHL could have brought it back was if the players were going to go WAY out of their way to make it happen.. I don't think many of us here think that the league was the side that should have made a move on Sat. simply going off of who's turn it was...

And if anyone still thinks that the NHL's offer on Wed. was final.. well...

Again.. I go back to my thought process that the NHLPA should have agreed to the 42.5...broke for lunch.. announced that the two sides had agreed in principle to the 42.5.. then gone in and asked the NHL to change a few things regarding what counted against a cap(such as IR players and the other things discussed on another thread) and perhaps one or two other burning issues they had... and if the NHL had moved on them.. great.. if not.. you come out of the meeting at the end of the day and say "look, we met the owners at 42.5, but they scuttled the deal over a few little issues"...

Point, set, match for NHLPA IMO...

;)
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THat is not how negotiating works in real life though .. First rule is you neve negoatiate against yourself .. In proper negoiation (nothing close to what we have had in this) .. you always alternate with proposals .. NEVER keep bidding against yourself ..

You can't agree on a deal and then go back and negotiate on the issue .. you have to do that first , make sure every little detail is finalized before you can shake hands and call it a deal ..

Also 42.5 was not going to get it down because then already turned that down to lose the season in the Final offer .. You don't come back a week later and say now yoiu agree .. Things would have to change .. If 42.5 was the number then the NHL would have need to change its position on Revenue Sharing or Arbitration or Rookie Contracts ..

What it seems like to me is that the NHL offers the same proposal 3 times in a row and has it rejected 3 times in a row before the think perhaps this is not going to get it done ..
 

Drury_Sakic

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Again..

I am not saying your logic is not wrong..

In fact.. its right..


But in regards to the Sat. meeting... it was up to the NHLPA to make a move...

I am saying the NHLPA should have said the 42.5 million was agreed upon.. NOT a deal... then go back in the room, and work the other parts of the deal so that the NHLPA could get some things it wanted in/out of the deal... If that situation would have happened, all the pressure would have been on the NHL if a deal would not have been reached(assuming the rest of the PA's demands were not SUPER FUNKY)...

I think if there is one thing that we can all agree upon, is that this has by no means been a normal process... Neogtiation .. that has not taken place... by either side..

:cry:
 
Mess

Mess

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Drury_Sakic said:
Again..

I am not saying your logic is not wrong..

In fact.. its right..


But in regards to the Sat. meeting... it was up to the NHLPA to make a move...

I am saying the NHLPA should have said the 42.5 million was agreed upon.. NOT a deal... then go back in the room, and work the other parts of the deal so that the NHLPA could get some things it wanted in/out of the deal... If that situation would have happened, all the pressure would have been on the NHL if a deal would not have been reached(assuming the rest of the PA's demands were not SUPER FUNKY)...

I think if there is one thing that we can all agree upon, is that this has by no means been a normal process... Neogtiation .. that has not taken place... by either side..

:cry:
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I think what your trying to say is that both sides could have " AGREED IN PRINCIPLE on the HARD CAP figure subject to the negotiation of all the other issues ..

However the actual Hard Cap number that everyone focuses on is really not as important and many of the other issues .. That is just your total team spending limit ..

The systemic issues on how a player is drafted at 18 and moves through the system until he reaches UFA age and his opportunities to have his wage altered throughout that time is what effects every single player .. Far more important .. to a player ..
 

Drury_Sakic

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Sort of..

I still believe that the only way you get a deal done is by first agreeing to the Hard Cap number...

In regards to Sat.. I am saying the NHLPA could have used the agreement to the 42.5 as a bargining chip....at the very least with the Fans from a PR standpoint, if not the NHL..

If you are an owner.. and the PA agree's to 42.5 with no funky clause 7 BS...and the NHL does not get a deal done... ooooh.. Gary's head would have been bouncing on the ground before you know it.. Same goes for the Fans side.. if the owners don't move a bit to make a deal after the NHLPA moves to the 42.5 fear the rath of the fan and media base.

The PA could have gotten a very fair and arguably a good deal at 42.5.... but they did not want that.. they wanted a WIN..

Just as I think the Owners could have gotten a fair..possibly good deal at 45-47..

its about finding that number.. then working out the little things so that which ever side "loses" the cap number war, can claim small victories elsewhere..

But its about head-hunting..
:shakehead

Now.. its time for the owners to figure out another offer IMO..or at the very least set a schedual of events for the next month in regards to meetings.. That I agree on..
 
Mess

Mess

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Drury_Sakic said:
Sort of..

I still believe that the only way you get a deal done is by first agreeing to the Hard Cap number...

In regards to Sat.. I am saying the NHLPA could have used the agreement to the 42.5 as a bargining chip....at the very least with the Fans from a PR standpoint, if not the NHL..

If you are an owner.. and the PA agree's to 42.5 with no funky clause 7 BS...and the NHL does not get a deal done... ooooh.. Gary's head would have been bouncing on the ground before you know it.. Same goes for the Fans side.. if the owners don't move a bit to make a deal after the NHLPA moves to the 42.5 fear the rath of the fan and media base.

The PA could have gotten a very fair and arguably a good deal at 42.5.... but they did not want that.. they wanted a WIN..

Just as I think the Owners could have gotten a fair..possibly good deal at 45-47..

its about finding that number.. then working out the little things so that which ever side "loses" the cap number war, can claim small victories elsewhere..

But its about head-hunting..
:shakehead

Now.. its time for the owners to figure out another offer IMO..or at the very least set a schedual of events for the next month in regards to meetings.. That I agree on..
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Wasn't the rumour that both sides had agreed "IN PRINCIPLE" at 45.0 mil Hard Cap ..

The NHLPA has never ever agreed to 42.5 Mil and Mario thought a 45.0 Mil offer was coming in fact ..

The NHLPA could not agree on the 42.5 IMO or they would have been the laughing stock (if its not bad enough already) .. The NHL says 42.5 Final offer and the season is cancelled, and then a week later they agree to 42.5 and the season is uncancelled .. That wouldn't happen ..
 

Drury_Sakic

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Yeah..

But neither side said they had agreed to the 45 number.. so its not of public record for or against either IMO..


I don't doubt that the PA did not want to sign the 42.5 number...I think they should have.. but I know why they did not..

If the PA would have said "OK, we give in to the 42.5, but we need something to hang our hat on" they could have saved some face...and I seriously doubt that many hockey fans would have pissed and moaned if a deal had gotten done and been any more irked at either side..but perhaps it really was impossible to get the owners side to move off something for the NHLPA...(upward linkage comes to mind)

Making a fool out of your self once can be overcome...... Making the same mistake twice..

:p:

its just all so confusing.. and we both clearly do not have all the facts.. the NHLPA may have tried to get the NHL to do what I outlined... but the NHL might have fowled things up... same goes for the PA...

I frankly don't trust either side anymore.. both lie.. cheat.. and murder the fans respect of the game..
 

arnie

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The Messenger said:
Wasn't the rumour that both sides had agreed "IN PRINCIPLE" at 45.0 mil Hard Cap ..

The NHLPA has never ever agreed to 42.5 Mil and Mario thought a 45.0 Mil offer was coming in fact ..

The NHLPA could not agree on the 42.5 IMO or they would have been the laughing stock (if its not bad enough already) .. The NHL says 42.5 Final offer and the season is cancelled, and then a week later they agree to 42.5 and the season is uncancelled .. That wouldn't happen ..
Click to expand...

It's amazing how people continue to ignore the facts. Bettman said that even if a deal was made on Saturday, the season was still cancelled. It was never going to be uncancelled. It was done. Finito. The negotiations on Saturaday were not about cancelling the season, despite all the media talk..
 

A Good Flying Bird*

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hawker14 said:
strachan, mckenzie, blah blah blah.

since reporting has become about the business instead of the game, i'm hard pressed to find a legitimate hockey reporter to read, other than perhaps conway.

oh well, i guess this is what happens when lawyers get involved.
Click to expand...

I like stach and brooks, simply because I like inflammatory hockey gossip.

But for the real news, I read the Globe and Mail writers.
 
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