Steven Stamkos vs. John Tavares

[Outl4w]

Player A.

Player B

Stamkos has played less games due to major injuries. He has more goals per game and points per game. He has scored more than 50 goals twice compared and JT has never 50 goals. HE has more points per game this year in a smaller sample size. Stamkos has a better +/- and shooting percentage over their careers. JT is only slightly better at Apg .52 versus Stamkos .51 and faceoff percentage. Both are not the best offensive player on their team anymore but were at one time. Both are still good players but Stamkos is better and one a much better contract. Any GM would be wise to take Stamkos over JT. Stamkos is a better player over his career and this year. One guy gas a cup and one doesn't. Stamkos will more than likely be a first ballot HOF and JT needs to improve his numbers to get there. Stamkos has led the league in goals twice and Tavares never has. I am not sure who even thinks this is close.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

stamkos rather clearly

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Okay, but Tavares had a higher percentage of Hart votes in both seasons, and has a whopping advantage in total first place Hart votes, which Stamkos has one of. I'm not arguing Tavares is better overall or at peak btw, just that their have been seasons where he was the better player between 2012 and 2019 and he has been a bit better in the playoffs.

The bolded is kind of irrelevant to the discussion, though, because when you look at the overall picture I don't think Tavares has much of a case.

For instance, Patrick Kane has had a season or two that he was superior to Crosby. But I don't think anyone would be arguing Kane is the overall better player over the course of their careers or for any real stretch of time of their careers.

Tavares having one or two better seasons than Stamkos is the same thing. Doesn't mean he's the better player, had the better career, or was the better player for a stretch of seasons. It simply means they're *relatively close* as players, so the inferior one was able to surpass the superior one on an occasion or two.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Stamkos has played less games due to major injuries. He has more goals per game and points per game. He has scored more than 50 goals twice compared and JT has never 50 goals.

No one is denying that Stamkos has two 50+ goal seasons. However are you really giving Tavares criticism because he has not scored 50 goals in a NHL season, even though his career high is 47 goals with Toronto during the 2018-19 Season and the fact scoring 50 goals is still hard to do. That year when Tavares was 3rd in goals scored he was only behind Ovechkin who had 51 goals and Draisaitl who had 50 goals.

Would I have liked to see Tavares score 50 goals that year, obviously the answer to that is yes. Going into that season I was hoping for Tavares to score at least 40+ goals and given the pressure of him signing with Toronto as a UFA and his new contract, you won't find any Leafs fans who were upset that he just missed out on scoring 50 goals.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

No one is denying that Stamkos has two 50+ goal seasons. However are you really giving Tavares criticism because he has not scored 50 goals in a NHL season, even though his career high is 47 goals with Toronto during the 2018-19 Season and the fact scoring 50 goals is still hard to do. That year when Tavares was 3rd in goals scored he was only behind Ovechkin who had 51 goals and Draisaitl who had 50 goals.

Would I have liked to see Tavares score 50 goals that year, obviously the answer to that is yes. Going into that season I was hoping for Tavares to score at least 40+ goals and given the pressure of him signing with Toronto as a UFA and his new contract, you won't find any Leafs fans who were upset that he just missed out on scoring 50 goals.

To be honest, this is kind of weird to me. Tavares seems to almost be treated with kid gloves by the Toronto fanbase. The expectations for what he should produce, despite him being paid the 2nd most money in hockey at the time, seem incredibly low, especially when compared to how much grief Marner gets when he slumps or even Matthews gets despite his prodigious goal scoring exploits.

To me, if you're being paid that much money, anything less than competing for one or more of the major awards each year should be expected of the player. Simply being "good" or being a point per game guy shouldn't be fine.

 

[LeafsNation75]

This was actually Zach Hyman.



@ 8:25

Oh you're talking about the play with 1 second left -- 1 second left, likely was more so trying to clear it -- then score. Much rather him ice it with a second left then trying to make a pass and turning it over in the defensive zone.

Nope it was Tavares as you noted, he was clearly shooting for an empty net goal, when a simple clearing would have iced the game. The icing didn't cost The Leafs the game. But had Calgary scored on the faceoff to tie the game. It would be a bad look for a Captain to be trying to stats pad rather than take the safe out. There was no need to shoot for the net at that point. And it was a clear shot.

On that second icing call there was actually 0.5 second left in the 3rd period and from what I saw since I actually watched the whole game, Tavares was just trying to get the puck out and was not going for an empty goal to pad his stats.

 

[Dache]

No one is denying that Stamkos has two 50+ goal seasons. However are you really giving Tavares criticism because he has not scored 50 goals in a NHL season, even though his career high is 47 goals with Toronto during the 2018-19 Season and the fact scoring 50 goals is still hard to do. That year when Tavares was 3rd in goals scored he was only behind Ovechkin who had 51 goals and Draisaitl who had 50 goals.

Would I have liked to see Tavares score 50 goals that year, obviously the answer to that is yes. Going into that season I was hoping for Tavares to score at least 40+ goals and given the pressure of him signing with Toronto as a UFA and his new contract, you won't find any Leafs fans who were upset that he just missed out on scoring 50 goals.

This whole post just went around in a big circle and said actually nothing

 

[The Winter Soldier]

On that second icing call there was actually 0.5 second left in the 3rd period and from what I saw since I actually watched the whole game, Tavares was just trying to get the puck out and was not going for an empty goal to pad his stats.

You need to watch the whole game to catch the last 30 seconds of the ending of the game? Putting the puck off the boards would have been safer, or just curling up ice. But Tavares taking dead aim at an empty net and firing it down the ice means he was just trying to pad his stats. He's lucky the Flames didn't score. It was a needless icing. Not something you would expect from a 12 year veteran.

 

[LeafsNation75]

To be honest, this is kind of weird to me. Tavares seems to almost be treated with kid gloves by the Toronto fanbase. The expectations for what he should produce, despite him being paid the 2nd most money in hockey at the time, seem incredibly low, especially when compared to how much grief Marner gets when he slumps or even Matthews gets despite his prodigious goal scoring exploits.

To me, if you're being paid that much money, anything less than competing for one or more of the major awards each year should be expected of the player. Simply being "good" or being a point per game guy shouldn't be fine.

So even though Tavares finished 3rd in goals scored during his first season in Toronto and was 4 behind Ovechkin who won the Rocket Richard with 51 goals, you don't think he was trying to compete and win it?

He had two hat tricks which included a 4 goal game when he scored his second hat trick. So if he had anymore luck late in the season getting a third hat trick who knows what would have happened.

As for your claim the Toronto fan base treated Tavares with kid gloves, it was only after last season when non Leafs fans claimed Tavares career was in decline because his stats went down. However those people never took into account the 7 games he missed because of a broken finger. Yet despite Stamkos having more injuries why hasn't that same thing been said about his career?

 

[LeafsNation75]

You need to watch the whole game to catch the last 30 seconds of the ending of the game? Putting the puck off the boards would have been safer, or just curling up ice. But Tavares taking dead aim at an empty net and firing it down the ice means he was just trying to pad his stats. He's lucky the Flames didn't score. It was a needless icing. Not something you would expect from a 12 year veteran.

So if Tavares got the puck out of the Leafs zone just a little slower it would have never made it for icing because the clock would have shown 0.00 and the game would have ended. Basically your making a big deal out of a nothing play since there was 0.5 seconds left when the whistle blew for the icing. If that was any other Maple Leafs player who did the exact same thing and not Tavares would you even bothered to mention it?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

So if Tavares got the puck out of the Leafs zone just a little slower it would have never made it for icing because the clock would have shown 0.00 and the game would have ended. Basically your making a big deal out of a nothing play since there was 0.5 seconds left when the whistle blew for the icing. If that was any other Maple Leafs player who did the exact same thing and not Tavares would you even bothered to mention it?

It says something about a player when they are more concerned with scoring an empty net goal than closing out a game. Had he been across center ice, it wouldn't matter. But from your side of Center ice in a 1 goal game with the goalie pulled. It caused an icing, and 1 second or not, had the Calgary player got back sooner, it could have been 2 seconds, in hockey we have seen it, goals off a faceoff dot are not uncommon. It was a selfish play IMO. Lucky for him it didn't cost the team.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It says something about a player when they are more concerned with scoring an empty net goal than closing out a game. Had he been across center ice, it wouldn't matter. But from your side of Center ice in a 1 goal game with the goalie pulled. It caused an icing, and 1 second or not, had the Calgary player got back sooner, it could have been 2 seconds, in hockey we have seen it, goals off a faceoff dot are not uncommon. It was a selfish play IMO. Lucky for him it didn't cost the team.

Tavares wasn't trying to score into the empty net, he was trying to get the puck out of the Leafs zone and it there was icing with 0.5 seconds left in the game.

I know you hate Tavares because he didn't re-sign with the Islanders but this is too much even for you.

 

[Cleatus]

Homer vote Tavares.

Stamkos is pretty dope too though (he's just very injury prone).

 

[Dache]

So if Tavares got the puck out of the Leafs zone just a little slower it would have never made it for icing because the clock would have shown 0.00 and the game would have ended. Basically your making a big deal out of a nothing play since there was 0.5 seconds left when the whistle blew for the icing. If that was any other Maple Leafs player who did the exact same thing and not Tavares would you even bothered to mention it?

He mentioned it because this is a Tavares vs Stamkos thread. Why would be mention it if it’s a different leaf?

 

[Outl4w]

No one is denying that Stamkos has two 50+ goal seasons. However are you really giving Tavares criticism because he has not scored 50 goals in a NHL season, even though his career high is 47 goals with Toronto during the 2018-19 Season and the fact scoring 50 goals is still hard to do. That year when Tavares was 3rd in goals scored he was only behind Ovechkin who had 51 goals and Draisaitl who had 50 goals.

Would I have liked to see Tavares score 50 goals that year, obviously the answer to that is yes. Going into that season I was hoping for Tavares to score at least 40+ goals and given the pressure of him signing with Toronto as a UFA and his new contract, you won't find any Leafs fans who were upset that he just missed out on scoring 50 goals.

I am saying he has yet to lead the league in goals or break 50. Stamkos has broke 50goals, 60 goals , and led the league the league in goals. HE has a higher ppg and gpg in his career and this year. He has a much friendly cap deal. He has two Richard trophies and a Cup.Any GM would take him over John Tarvares considering the tier between their goal scoring ability and if you fact in the contract it is a no brainer. JT makes 11,000,000 and Stamkos makes 8.500,000. The better player is on the better contract and has less term. I am not sure how you can think Tavares is a better player when he leads Stamkos is no major category and the contract makes it even easier.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Stammer, all day

 

[ijuka]

Hard to think of anything Tavares is better than Stamkos at, TBH.

Better shot, better playmaking, better skating.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I am saying he has yet to lead the league in goals or break 50. Stamkos has broke 50goals, 60 goals , and led the league the league in goals. HE has a higher ppg and gpg in his career and this year. He has a much friendly cap deal. He has two Richard trophies and a Cup.Any GM would take him over John Tarvares considering the tier between their goal scoring ability and if you fact in the contract it is a no brainer. JT makes 11,000,000 and Stamkos makes 8.500,000. The better player is on the better contract and has less term. I am not sure how you can think Tavares is a better player when he leads Stamkos is no major category and the contract makes it even easier.

I thought Stamkos re-signed for $8.5 million because he can make up that money with the no state tax in Florida.

So if he decided to become an UFA like Tavares did, I can guarantee teams who wanted him would have paid him at least $10 million AAV at a minimum.

 

[LeafsNation75]

He mentioned it because this is a Tavares vs Stamkos thread. Why would be mention it if it’s a different leaf?

Because it seems like a petty thing to say that Tavares was being selfish trying to score an empty net goal so he could pad his stats, when he was trying to get the puck out of the Leafs end and did exactly that. It just so happened to be there was 0.5 seconds left on the clock. Besides Tavares won the next faceoff and the game was over.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Tavares wasn't trying to score into the empty net, he was trying to get the puck out of the Leafs zone and it there was icing with 0.5 seconds left in the game.

I know you hate Tavares because he didn't re-sign with the Islanders but this is too much even for you.

You love the Leafs, what does that have to do with anything? Tavares was trying to pad his stats by shooting at an empty net in a 1 goal game. I am not disappointed the Isles didn't re-sign Tavares. They are and have been a much better team without him. They have won 4 post season series in 2 years without him, and only 1 in 10 years when he was on their team. The bottom line is winning. It was addition by subtraction.

 

[Dache]

Because it seems like a petty thing to say that Tavares was being selfish trying to score an empty net goal so he could pad his stats, when he was trying to get the puck out of the Leafs end and did exactly that. It just so happened to be there was 0.5 seconds left on the clock. Besides Tavares won the next faceoff and the game was over.

Should we go see if you have any petty comments in here?

 

[LeafsNation75]

You love the Leafs, what does that have to do with anything? Tavares was trying to pad his stats by shooting at an empty net in a 1 goal game. I am not disappointed the Isles didn't re-sign Tavares. They are and have been a much better team without him. They have won 4 post season series in 2 years without him, and only 1 in 10 years when he was on their team. The bottom line is winning. It was addition by subtraction.

I suggest you watch the highlights again because Tavares was clearing the puck out of the Leafs end which he did. So no he was not going for the empty net goal and it resulted with an icing call, however Tavares won the next faceoff and the Leafs won. So your making such a big deal over an icing call with 0.5 seconds left.

Also here is a link to a thread posted on June 14, 2018 when Darren Dreger was reporting Tavares was possibly going to re-sign with the Islanders and you had this reply. So at that time you wanted Tavares to re-sign with them.

Dreger: - Tavares and Islanders discussing contract extension

 

[VinikToWinIt]

Stammer had the better peak and has the hardware. All in all I think he’s had the better career and been the better player, but right now I think Tavares is slightly better.

Stammer also had way more talent around him during his prime years. St. Louis, Kucherov, Hedman etc.

Tavares had... Matt Moulson and Josh Bailey during his prime as an Islander, and was the runner up for an Art Ross.

But even now with Tavares' talent upgrade since his Toronto move, Stamkos is still outproducing him.

Last season, Stamkos had 6 more points in 6 less games than Tavares. The year prior, he had 10 more points in the same number of games. This year, he's played 3 less games than Tavares and has 1 less point. It's too early in the season to glean anything meaningful, but he's still outpacing him.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I suggest you watch the highlights again because Tavares was clearing the puck out of the Leafs end which he did. So no he was not going for the empty net goal and it resulted with an icing call, however Tavares won the next faceoff and the Leafs won. So your making such a big deal over an icing call with 0.5 seconds left.

Why do I need to watch something I already saw last night, he did not chip or shoot the puck off the boards as Hyman did just before him, he did not flip the puck out to not try to kill the clock, he shot the puck hard at the empty net when Toronto was not under any pressure. He tried to beat the clock by padding his stats. BTW he did not win the face off, Monahan was credited with the face off win.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Why do I need to watch something I already saw last night, he did not chip or shoot the puck off the boards as Hyman did just before him, he did not flip the puck out to not try to kill the clock, he shot the puck hard at the empty net when Toronto was not under any pressure. He tried to beat the clock by padding his stats. BTW he did not win the face off, Monahan was credited with the face off win.

My mistake that Monahan won the faceoff. However despite that since there was 0.5 seconds left he was never going to get a decent scoring chance on Campbell. It's not like the NBA where a goal will count if the puck is shot off a players stick before the clock shows 0.00, so I was not worried about the Flames tying the game.