State of the video game industry

x Tame Impala

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There are more video games being made right now, available now, on a wider range of platforms than ever and in a limitless amount of genres. If you're complaining about playing free to play competitive games, maybe look a bit harder for something to play.
It’s a business model that leaked over and is now dominating many top tier games. Battle Pass systems are terrible. It removes content from games and incentivizes meaningless cosmetics as a main driver of gameplay. It lets developers skimp on many modes and a lot of content in general because they’re generating cheap revenue from micro transactions. It’s not good for the game industry.
 

93LEAFS

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Was talking about this with a friend last night. My 3 biggest gripes in the current game industry are these.

1: Full-priced yearly releases (EA sports games and COD as examples) that are overly dependent on micro-transactions. If your F2P and charging for cosmetics cool, I don't care. But to make a 60-70 USD game and then on top of that try to milk people to buy (and live off the small percentage of people who spend over $200 on packs) while also ignoring franchise mode/campaign, is something I can't get behind. Haven't bought an EA sports game since 2018 (which was my first purchase since 2012) when I used to buy multiple yearly. But, even if sales go down (no idea if they are), they are more profitable than ever due to the small percentage of people who dump money into packs.

2: Developers overly reliant on day one patches to meet release date deadlines. When I was growing up, you released a broken game, it stayed broken, so you made sure that it was as close to great by the time it went gold. Now, games that never should have gone gold for consoles (Cyberpunk) are allowed to release due to the belief these games will be patched to a playable state by the release date. Now, I love how patches fix bugs, and the development of games is much more time/manpower-consuming than ever before, but it should be used to fix things you missed, not to meet target dates and pray you can patch the game by release date. On top of that, mainstream reviewers are afraid to talk too much about bugs due to the belief it could be patched.

3: Finally, "physical games" where the disc doesn't even allow you to play basically the "gold" version of the game. Ubisoft is the worst at this. 750mb on a 60gb game should not be happening. That game isn't a physical copy and is only useful as long as Ubisoft or your chosen platform still has servers allowing you to download the game.
 
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Ceremony

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It’s a business model that leaked over and is now dominating many top tier games. Battle Pass systems are terrible. It removes content from games and incentivizes meaningless cosmetics as a main driver of gameplay. It lets developers skimp on many modes and a lot of content in general because they’re generating cheap revenue from micro transactions. It’s not good for the game industry.
That doesn't have anything to do with what I said. Many more video games are released and available now without battle passes than with.
 

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That doesn't have anything to do with what I said. Many more video games are released and available now without battle passes than with.
Disingenuous. Many of the most prolific games in sports and FPS genres integrate a battle pass or micro transaction element into their core gameplay
 

syz

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Disingenuous. Many of the most prolific games in sports and FPS genres integrate a battle pass or micro transaction element into their core gameplay
Because the development costs of "prolific games" have continued to escalate despite the retail price of games remaining the same (outside of regional exchange rate adjustments, though we're seeing an increase in some games now) and if they reduce their fidelity people bitch and complain about that, too.

Main problem is that those microtransaction dollars are going to CEOs instead of developers most of the time.
 
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PeteWorrell

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Because the development costs of "prolific games" have continued to escalate despite the retail price of games remaining the same (outside of regional exchange rate adjustments, though we're seeing an increase in some games now) and if they reduce their fidelity people bitch and complain about that, too.

Main problem is that those microtransaction dollars are going to CEOs instead of developers most of the time.
A good way to cut costs is to make smaller worlds filled with content instead of oversized maps with nothing in them in an attempt to give the illusion that the world is bigger than it actually is. Sequels are often guilty of this as developers think that they have to make the game needlessly bigger to surpass the previous release. Just a dumb design mentality that should die because people are plenty satisfied playing smaller and more focused games instead of endless empty sprawls.
 
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beowulf

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Ok so just read some of the thread and it looks like it for derailed like totally off the rails lol
 

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Ok so just read some of the thread and it looks like it for derailed like totally off the rails lol
Your right.

The gaming industry is what it is.

Until people stop buying remakes, sequels, updates,etc, of old IP’s the studios have nothing to worry about in trying to create something new.

Nintendo invested tons of money into fun IP’s directed at children and now every company thinks they can catch that lightening in the bottle with their questionable ones without understanding Nintendo has the best game designers in the world.

The new generation of gaming systems wasn’t a huge step up from the last one where gamers actually needed to upgrade their previous system. Faster loading times are great and all, but most we’re expecting better exclusive games that haven’t come out yet. There isn’t a killer app on either the 5 or Xbone, and gaming studios don’t need to make one.
 
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Ceremony

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Disingenuous. Many of the most prolific games in sports and FPS genres integrate a battle pass or micro transaction element into their core gameplay
It's not disingenuous at all. Two genres don't define an entire industry or medium, regardless of how many people are playing them. If someone is unhappy with them for whatever reason then there are quite literally thousands of other options.
 

x Tame Impala

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“It's not disingenuous at all. Two genres don't define an entire industry or medium, regardless of how many people are playing them. If someone is unhappy with them for whatever reason then there are quite literally thousands of other options.”

if I want to play a FPS online or sports games and don’t want a battle pass system or a micro transaction heavy experience what are my options oh wise one?
 

Ceremony

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“It's not disingenuous at all. Two genres don't define an entire industry or medium, regardless of how many people are playing them. If someone is unhappy with them for whatever reason then there are quite literally thousands of other options.”

if I want to play a FPS online or sports games and don’t want a battle pass system or a micro transaction heavy experience what are my options oh wise one?
The things that aren't those. "video games" does not equate to "first person shooters and sports games" which is entirely the point. I'm not denying they're mostly terrible. They're not the only options available if you want to play video games.
 

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What’s wrong with a battle pass?

Ten bucks in fortnite gets you a ton of loot and what, nine skins for investing your time? On top of that, epic has made it ridiculously easy to grind out 100 levels now. That’s a damn bargain.

Ten bucks doesn’t even get you a premium skin in the item shop. F2P games need to make money somehow.

As for sbmm, if you think sbmm is ruining games, that’s small dick energy. If you are bad, you should play with other bad players. If you are good, you should play with good players. Streamers complaining because they can’t drop a 30 bomb then make a video for YT need to get better at the game instead of crying that there should be no sbmm and be allowed to Smurf on noobs.

That moron Timthetatman just made a meme crying about sbmm. Get better, Tim. First, your horrible at PVP and need carry’s and the clowns you play with ain’t that good. Second, only streamers are crying about this and influencing their fan farms into believing they’re entitled to being allowed to shit on noobs cuz content.

Doesn’t work that way. Either VPN Faze lobbies, or, with your years of experience playing PVP, actually get good.

ActionMan, who’s completely toxic, was horrible at FN but got good playing arena and is now wrecking ZB pub lobbies. Dedicate yourself instead of looking for hand outs.
 

Shareefruck

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There's a TLOU1 game on PS3, a remaster on PS4, and a remake on PS5.

Come on, Sony.
I love to complain about AAA game trends as much as the next guy, and I despise The Last of Us and do not see it as a classic whatsoever, so this isn't anything close to fanboy rhetoric, but this sentiment has never resonated with me, personally.

If you make something good, remake it as often as you want to, IMO-- keep taking cracks at perfecting it. Hell, make it a tradition with every generational cycle-- I'm all for it, and if anything, I'm disappointed that it doesn't happen more often (in all forms of media), personally (Ozu remaking his own films over and over again was always something that I found very very cool). Especially when the spirit of what it is is always kept intact and it's still the original creator overseeing it. If it's getting butchered with every iteration, sure, I would hate that, but otherwise, I don't see the issue.

Whether or not any given person would want to buy it is another story, but nobody's making anyone buy it over and over again.
 
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93LEAFS

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I love to complain about AAA game trends as much as the next guy, and I despise The Last of Us and do not see it as a classic whatsoever, so this isn't anything close to fanboy rhetoric, but this sentiment has never resonated with me, personally.

If you make something good, remake it as often as you want to, IMO-- keep taking cracks at perfecting it. Hell, make it a tradition with every generational cycle-- I'm all for it, and if anything, I'm disappointed that it doesn't happen more often (in all forms of media), personally (Ozu remaking his own films over and over again was always something that I found very very cool). Especially when the spirit of what it is is always kept intact and it's still the original creator overseeing it. If it's getting butchered with every iteration, sure, I would hate that, but otherwise, I don't see the issue.

Whether or not any given person would want to buy it is another story, but nobody's making anyone buy it over and over again.
While, I wish it was put on PS5 as part of PS Plus extra as a good will gesture. It's pretty obvious why this re-make happened. Firstly, the new big-budget HBO show coming out. Secondly, to satisfy PC gamers, they weren't going to just release the PS4 remaster for PC, and if they were going to go through all the work to put it out on PC given the game is made with X86 architecture for PC and PS5, they might as well put it out on their home platform first.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

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I love to complain about AAA game trends as much as the next guy, and I despise The Last of Us and do not see it as a classic whatsoever, so this isn't anything close to fanboy rhetoric, but this sentiment has never resonated with me, personally.

If you make something good, remake it as often as you want to, IMO-- keep taking cracks at perfecting it. Hell, make it a tradition with every generational cycle-- I'm all for it, and if anything, I'm disappointed that it doesn't happen more often (in all forms of media), personally (Ozu remaking his own films over and over again was always something that I found very very cool). Especially when the spirit of what it is is always kept intact and it's still the original creator overseeing it. If it's getting butchered with every iteration, sure, I would hate that, but otherwise, I don't see the issue.

Whether or not any given person would want to buy it is another story, but nobody's making anyone buy it over and over again.
The issue I have here is that Sony is barely putting out any other worthwhile exclusives. If you're not into GoW there's absolutely no reason to own a PS5.
 

93LEAFS

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The things that aren't those. "video games" does not equate to "first person shooters and sports games" which is entirely the point. I'm not denying they're mostly terrible. They're not the only options available if you want to play video games.
I think the issue for some is that they used to love these games (especially sports games) before EA ignored the things they love about them (franchise mode for example) in favor of pushing ultimate team. And, due to exclusive rights, there is no real competitor.

The issue I have here is that Sony is barely putting out any other worthwhile exclusives. If you're not into GoW there's absolutely no reason to own a PS5.
Horizon Forbidden West, Gran Turismo, Miles Morales, Ratchet and Clank, Returnal and Demon Souls have all been pretty strong and well received. I personally loved Forbidden West, Miles Morales, and Ratchet and Clank.
 

Shareefruck

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The issue I have here is that Sony is barely putting out any other worthwhile exclusives. If you're not into GoW there's absolutely no reason to own a PS5.
The fact that something ideal doesn't exist isn't a good reason to complain about the stuff that does and reasonably has its own merits, IMO. I've also just never agreed with the "quit living in the past and show me something new" mentality in general, though. Just focus on things being good, whether they're old or new, I say.

I just don't agree with the prevalent anti-reboot sentiment in general (not just in videogames, but across every medium). There's an issue with a ton of them not being done well, but I would take one well done remake of a thing that I like over a hundred new games that I don't like nearly as much, personally (I'm legitimately more excited about Tactics Ogre Reborn coming out than God of War 2, for example).

While it'd be nice to have both great reboots and great original content, I feel like there was a void in good original content long before reboots became a trend, and I actually think they're a welcome consolation prize that isn't the root of the problem to begin with.
 
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PeteWorrell

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I love to complain about AAA game trends as much as the next guy, and I despise The Last of Us and do not see it as a classic whatsoever, so this isn't anything close to fanboy rhetoric, but this sentiment has never resonated with me, personally.

If you make something good, remake it as often as you want to, IMO-- keep taking cracks at perfecting it. Hell, make it a tradition with every generational cycle-- I'm all for it, and if anything, I'm disappointed that it doesn't happen more often (in all forms of media), personally (Ozu remaking his own films over and over again was always something that I found very very cool). Especially when the spirit of what it is is always kept intact and it's still the original creator overseeing it. If it's getting butchered with every iteration, sure, I would hate that, but otherwise, I don't see the issue.

Whether or not any given person would want to buy it is another story, but nobody's making anyone buy it over and over again.
The problem is that most of the time they are not really perfecting it and using it more as a cash grab. The Last of Us strength is it's narrative because honestly when it comes to game play, it is very limited like many Naughty Dogs games. Making the game a bit prettier does nothing for the story and the game play is still below a PS2 game like Metal Gear Solid 3.

If we are talking about films, i love Stanley Kubrick because he never really stuck to a subject matter and sought to challenge himself by changing genres and telling completely different stories and doing it well. The closet gaming equivalent to that would be people like Miyamoto at Nintendo who are not afraid to mix it up. Does it always work? No. But in trying and experimenting with new things, they have made a lasting impact on the gaming industry several times over through evolution. Much better than releasing Zelda Ocarina of Time over and over and over again like most of the industry would do where they in their shoes.
 
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The fact that something ideal doesn't exist isn't a good reason to complain about the stuff that does and reasonably has its own merits, IMO. I've also just never agreed with the "quit living in the past and show me something new" mentality in general, though. Just focus on things being good, whether they're old or new, I say.

I just don't agree with the prevalent anti-reboot sentiment in general (not just in videogames, but across every medium). There's an issue with a ton of them not being done well, but I would take one well done remake of a thing that I like over a hundred new games that I don't like nearly as much, personally (I'm legitimately more excited about Tactics Ogre Reborn coming out than God of War 2, for example).

While it'd be nice to have both great reboots and great original content, I feel like there was a void in good original content long before reboots became a trend, and I actually think they're a welcome consolation prize that isn't the root of the problem to begin with.
I’m with you on Tactics Ogre, but I don’t think too many people played it back in the day so it’s pretty much a good game that was over looked back in the day.

The whole remake trend of popular games is the issue, imo. Unless your completely going full FF7R, it’s just a cash grab. The RE remakes wernt anything special, neither are all the gta5 upgrades. If studios want to remake games they thought were good but didn’t sell well I can get behind that.

I’d love to see Shining Force one and two remade and the full SF3 brought over legally to the states and would buy those over any LOU remake every single day. I cannot believe there’s a big market for LOU that investing millions in remaking a game that millions have already played just to get it up to par on current systems is smart business unless they’re adding about 20 new hours of gameplay along with it.
 

Shareefruck

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I’m with you on Tactics Ogre, but I don’t think too many people played it back in the day so it’s pretty much a good game that was over looked back in the day.

The whole remake trend of popular games is the issue, imo. Unless your completely going full FF7R, it’s just a cash grab. The RE remakes wernt anything special, neither are all the gta5 upgrades. If studios want to remake games they thought were good but didn’t sell well I can get behind that.

I’d love to see Shining Force one and two remade and the full SF3 brought over legally to the states and would buy those over any LOU remake every single day. I cannot believe there’s a big market for LOU that investing millions in remaking a game that millions have already played just to get it up to par on current systems is smart business unless they’re adding about 20 new hours of gameplay along with it.
The problem is that most of the time they are not really perfecting it and using it more as a cash grab. The Last of Us strength is it's narrative because honestly when it comes to game play, it is very limited like many Naughty Dogs games. Making the game a bit prettier does nothing for the story and the game play is still below a PS2 game like Metal Gear Solid 3.

If we are talking about films, i love Stanley Kubrick because he never really stuck to a subject matter and sought to challenge himself by changing genres and telling completely different stories and doing it well. The closet gaming equivalent to that would be people like Miyamoto at Nintendo who are not afraid to mix it up. Does it always work? No. But in trying and experimenting with new things, they have made a lasting impact on the gaming industry several times over through evolution. Much better than releasing Zelda Ocarina of Time over and over and over again like most of the industry would do where they in their shoes.
They're different approaches that both have arguable merits and drawbacks either way, in my opinion, and if anything, I heavily favor the single-minded perfectionist attitude, personally. This idea that people should always strive to be the "always challenge yourself to do something different and reinvent yourself each time" type is, in my view, misguided and far more lopsided than it should be. It's two sides of the same coin, of equal merit. I prefer and have greater admiration for the "understand what truly makes you tick and spend a lifetime nailing that 100%-- relish in repetition and perfectionism" attitude, myself (the Jiro Dreams of Sushi mindset), and remakes can be, in principle, an extension of that (not that they always are, in practice).

I have more respect for the mindset of the RE remakes than I do with FFVIIR, personally (even though I'm far more impressed by the latter's original game), because they care more about getting things perfectly right and nailing what makes it tick than superficially keeping people guessing with shit they've never seen before (while arguably going against the core ideas of the original and doing something artistically more shallow). I think people are too obsessed with the novelty of things being fresh and new-- Personally, I found a lot of the lip-service surrounding the game to be BS. The RE remakes are obviously superior to the originals, whereas I would still take FFVII OG over FFVIIR pretty easily (despite both having a ton of flaws).

I would also take Ozu (who kinda made the same film over and over) over Kubrick, Neu! or Fela Kuti (who kinda wrote the same song over and over) over The Beatles, and Matsuno over Miyamoto (although I'm not sure I agree he's a great example of that), etc. I'm not saying everyone should agree, but I think it's stupid how everyone matter-of-fact-ly treats it like it unanimously should be one way over the other.

Also, The Last of Us Part 1's narrative is every bit as lame and mediocre as its gameplay, in my opinion. Critically praised only because the bar for storytelling in videogames is so low, when the same level of storytelling would be eye-rolling in other mediums. I think its only really exceptional at having high quality production values and baseline competence in most areas, so repeatedly updating those to keep up with technology makes a lot of sense to me. Not that I agree that this matters anyways-- whatever way you can legitimately improve something (whether it's its bread and butter or not), it's worth doing, IMO.

I agree that remakes are often just cash-grabs that aren't very good or even not necessarily improvements over the originals at all, but that's an issue with how well done they happen to be, not a fundamental issue with the idea of remakes overall. It's not an issue exclusive to remakes either-- The same thing could be said about original properties-- I'd wager that the likelihood and success rate of them being bad or shameless cash grabs is ultimately pretty similar.
 
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TheDoldrums

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The problem is that most of the time they are not really perfecting it and using it more as a cash grab. The Last of Us strength is it's narrative because honestly when it comes to game play, it is very limited like many Naughty Dogs games. Making the game a bit prettier does nothing for the story and the game play is still below a PS2 game like Metal Gear Solid 3.

To be fair I think almost every single game ever made will disappoint if you're comparing their gameplay to MGS3.
 

Mikeaveli

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I don't have a problem with remakes/remasters, I love having convenient ways to play (what should be) the definitive version of a classic game on modern platforms. The problems with The Last of Us Part 1 were entirely on Sony:

1. They lied about the game being a "from the ground up remake" when it uses the same exact voice acting, mocap performances, script, level designs, gameplay, etc. from the original game. They also removed the multiplayer mode, making it hard to call it the definitive version of the game.
2. They charged 70 USD for the game when it isn't even an actual remake and has less content than the original release.

Also, on an entirely different note, I really don't understand the idea that you should only upgrade your console if the new one has exclusive games. If PC gamers had that same mentality nobody would ever upgrade lol
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

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The fact that something ideal doesn't exist isn't a good reason to complain about the stuff that does and reasonably has its own merits, IMO. I've also just never agreed with the "quit living in the past and show me something new" mentality in general, though. Just focus on things being good, whether they're old or new, I say.

I just don't agree with the prevalent anti-reboot sentiment in general (not just in videogames, but across every medium). There's an issue with a ton of them not being done well, but I would take one well done remake of a thing that I like over a hundred new games that I don't like nearly as much, personally (I'm legitimately more excited about Tactics Ogre Reborn coming out than God of War 2, for example).

While it'd be nice to have both great reboots and great original content, I feel like there was a void in good original content long before reboots became a trend, and I actually think they're a welcome consolation prize that isn't the root of the problem to begin with.
I've got no problems with remakes/remasters so long as it isn't done repeatedly and unnecessarily. I really enjoyed the remake of the original Crash games. There's something that absolutely warranted some modern touches to it. Remastering TLOU for PS4 makes sense seeing as it was one of the PS3's most popular games... But then to remake that game for the PS5 just screams cash grab to me. While the graphics certainly look nicer, part of the reason a remake is done is to not only reintroduce a game to an audience that might be unfamiliar with it, but also to make modern updates to the game that makes it more accessible in addition to adding content. I'm not really seeing that here. Sony has a treasure trove of great games they could remake. To pick TLOU seems lazy and money hungry.
 
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PeteWorrell

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I don't have a problem with remakes/remasters, I love having convenient ways to play (what should be) the definitive version of a classic game on modern platforms. The problems with The Last of Us Part 1 were entirely on Sony:

1. They lied about the game being a "from the ground up remake" when it uses the same exact voice acting, mocap performances, script, level designs, gameplay, etc. from the original game. They also removed the multiplayer mode, making it hard to call it the definitive version of the game.
2. They charged 70 USD for the game when it isn't even an actual remake and has less content than the original release.

Also, on an entirely different note, I really don't understand the idea that you should only upgrade your console if the new one has exclusive games. If PC gamers had that same mentality nobody would ever upgrade lol
PC as a platform is much more versatile than any console in existence. You have things like emulation and then mods that can completely change a game making it feel fresh on a replay. This is how games are kept alive and well many years after release. You don't have such flexibility and options if a console simply does not deliver.
 

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