State of the video game industry

[syz]

The most interesting recent(ish) remakes to me have been Odin Sphere and Nier Replicant--a pair of games that were made on shoestring budgets initially that developers circled back around to after they'd grown successful enough to take another shot at them.

Remakes/remasters that are done just for modernization are hit or miss but the main issue there imo is that the remake is often just marketed as a replacement to the original, or that they no longer feel a need to make the original readily available. Like, they're not incentivized to make the PS3 version of Demon's Souls available on more platforms and/or to turn those servers back on; if they did people might play that version instead of paying $70 for the remake. Even when a remake turns out good I still think the originals should be made available beyond having to emulate them, which doesn't happen often enough. That said if they want to remake Persona 3 but make it look and play like Persona 5 I have $60 sitting here.

It does get weird when we're "remastering" games that are already available and perfectly functional, though. The Last of Us stuff this time smells to me like "prestige games are extremely expensive to make and the pandemic is costing us a lot of money" but ND knows that their fanboys will buy whatever they put out so they're just selling them the first one again to fill the bank a bit.

 

[93LEAFS]

The most interesting recent(ish) remakes to me have been Odin Sphere and Nier Replicant--a pair of games that were made on shoestring budgets initially that developers circled back around to after they'd grown successful enough to take another shot at them.

Remakes/remasters that are done just for modernization are hit or miss but the main issue there imo is that the remake is often just marketed as a replacement to the original, or that they no longer feel a need to make the original readily available. Like, they're not incentivized to make the PS3 version of Demon's Souls available on more platforms and/or to turn those servers back on; if they did people might play that version instead of paying $70 for the remake. Even when a remake turns out good I still think the originals should be made available beyond having to emulate them, which doesn't happen often enough.

It does get weird when we're "remastering" games that are already available and perfectly functional, though. The Last of Us stuff this time smells to me like "prestige games are extremely expensive to make and the pandemic is costing us a lot of money" but ND knows that their fanboys will buy whatever they put out so they're just selling them the first one again to fill the bank a bit.

I haven't bought this Last of Us "remake." But, I feel a lot of this is tied to porting it to PC which is coming out in the near future, and seems to be getting overlooked a bit. Unlike God of War and Horizon, it wasn't even designed with PS4 pro in mind. Sony didn't want to make the best possible version of it, and then have their fanboys complain it was only available on PC. I think the same thing happened to Spider-man which was hidden behind a paywall. Now, if they actually go through with re-making Horizon: Zero Dawn which already has an adequate PC version, maybe my personal speculation is wrong. Now, should there have been a more reasonable upgrade path for people who own The Last of Us on PS3 or PS4, absolutely.

 

[pistolpete11]

If people want to play a better looking version of their favorite games and pay $70 for it, good for them.
If people never played a game and don't want to go back and play a dated version of it, neat, that's what I did with Demon's Souls.
If Sony is grabbing some cash so that they can fund something else or don't have to cut something, that's not a bad thing.

I think what Sony has done with Bluepoint is the way to go, though. Let the bigger studios focus on new content. Let these smaller studios build, learn, grow, and get some attention without being thrown into the deep end immediately. If they prove themselves worthy, then give them a crack at an original.

MY biggest frustration with remakes/remasters is that they haven't done one for Bloodborne.

 

[Mikeaveli]

PC as a platform is much more versatile than any console in existence. You have things like emulation and then mods that can completely change a game making it feel fresh on a replay. This is how games are kept alive and well many years after release. You don't have such flexibility and options if a console simply does not deliver.

I agree with everything you've said here, my point is that the difference in performance, image quality, graphical fidelity, and features should be enough to warrant an upgrade just like it was when I upgraded from my GTX 970 to an RTX 3080 around the same time that the consoles launched. You're seeing that difference regardless of whether the games you're playing are also releasing on older hardware.

 

[93LEAFS]

If people want to play a better looking version of their favorite games and pay $70 for it, good for them.
If people never played a game and don't want to go back and play a dated version of it, neat, that's what I did with Demon's Souls.
If Sony is grabbing some cash so that they can fund something else or don't have to cut something, that's not a bad thing.

I think what Sony has done with Bluepoint is the way to go, though. Let the bigger studios focus on new content. Let these smaller studios build, learn, grow, and get some attention without being thrown into the deep end immediately. If they prove themselves worthy, then give them a crack at an original.

MY biggest frustration with remakes/remasters is that they haven't done one for Bloodborne.

I've heard that Bloodborne is a nightmare to remaster/re-make due to the code and the physics tied to 30fps.

 

[Shareefruck]

If people want to play a better looking version of their favorite games and pay $70 for it, good for them.
If people never played a game and don't want to go back and play a dated version of it, neat, that's what I did with Demon's Souls.
If Sony is grabbing some cash so that they can fund something else or don't have to cut something, that's not a bad thing.

I think what Sony has done with Bluepoint is the way to go, though. Let the bigger studios focus on new content. Let these smaller studios build, learn, grow, and get some attention without being thrown into the deep end immediately. If they prove themselves worthy, then give them a crack at an original.

MY biggest frustration with remakes/remasters is that they haven't done one for Bloodborne.

Yeah. I have nothing to back this up, but sometimes it almost feels like some people are re-purchasing every iteration of a game they like whether they need to or not because they have no self control, and resenting the creators for making them double dip and go broke or something.

Also, I want a tasteful Super Metroid remake, even though it'll probably never happen the way I want it to. The skeleton of that game is beautiful and so elegantly designed, IMO. Just making the controls and enemy animations smoother and nicer (and as snappy as Metroid Dread), and improving certain quality of life things would really cement its placement as an all time favorite for me.

 

[pistolpete11]

I've heard that Bloodborne is a nightmare to remaster/re-make due to the code and the physics tied to 30fps.

I'm not really tech savvy enough to understand most of this stuff. I just know when it looks better to my eye

But apparently there is a mod out there that gets close to a consistent 60fps. It was done by 1 guy. If he can do that, I'd have to think that a team of professional game developers would be able to do something. The fact they haven't despite the fan outcry and success of Elden Ring, well...it's probably why people are still holding out hope.

Yeah. I have nothing to back this up, but sometimes it almost feels like some people are re-purchasing every iteration of a game they like whether they need to or not because they have no self control, and resenting the creators for making them double dip and go broke or something.

Also, I want a tasteful Super Metroid remake, even though it'll probably never happen the way I want it to. The skeleton of that game is beautiful and so elegantly designed, IMO. Just making the controls and enemy animations smoother and nicer (and as snappy as Metroid Dread), and improving certain quality of life things would really cement its placement as an all time favorite for me.

Yeah, I get that sense too. People need to realize that not everything is made for them. If you've already played a game and don't think margin visual improvements are worth it, then save your money, shut up, and let the people that do want it enjoy it. Go play something else.

 

[Mikeaveli]

Yeah, I get that sense too. People need to realize that not everything is made for them. If you've already played a game and don't think margin visual improvements are worth it, then save your money, shut up, and let the people that do want it enjoy it. Go play something else.

The problem with that argument is it doesn't actually add anything to the conversation, people are allowed to criticize things even if you don't agree with them. I'm just imagining if I listened to an album, told a friend how I didn't like it, and their response was "Well maybe you shouldn't have listened to it then? Shut up and go do something else" lol

 

[Osprey]

But apparently there is a mod out there that gets close to a consistent 60fps. It was done by 1 guy. If he can do that, I'd have to think that a team of professional game developers would be able to do something. The fact they haven't despite the fan outcry and success of Elden Ring, well...it's probably why people are still holding out hope.

There's a mod out there for every From Software game on PC to unlock the framerate. I've used most of them and the games play no differently or buggier at 144fps than they do at 60fps. It's apparently not hard for a single, unemployed coder to decouple the physics from the framerate in a game that he doesn't even have the source code for, yet it seems to be a mystery to some AAA developers (especially, but not limited to, From Software).

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I'm not really tech savvy enough to understand most of this stuff. I just know when it looks better to my eye

But apparently there is a mod out there that gets close to a consistent 60fps. It was done by 1 guy. If he can do that, I'd have to think that a team of professional game developers would be able to do something. The fact they haven't despite the fan outcry and success of Elden Ring, well...it's probably why people are still holding out hope.


Yeah, I get that sense too. People need to realize that not everything is made for them. If you've already played a game and don't think margin visual improvements are worth it, then save your money, shut up, and let the people that do want it enjoy it. Go play something else.

I mean yeah but the cost of actually playing video games goes up by the year. Tons of games nowadays have some sort of season pass or DLC which further jacks up the price.

 

[pistolpete11]

The problem with that argument is it doesn't actually add anything to the conversation, people are allowed to criticize things even if you don't agree with them. I'm just imagining if I listened to an album, told a friend how I didn't like it, and their response was "Well maybe you shouldn't have listened to it then? Shut up and go do something else" lol

1. People are complaining about them remaking certain games at all. Not the quality of the remake. I'd wager most of them haven't even played the remake.

2. If you listened to an album, didn't like it, spent more money to buy the remastered album, and then complained to me you didn't like it, yes, I'd tell you to shut up and go do something else. They are made for super fans who are willing to pay for marginal improvements and to bring in new fans. If you don't fall into those categories, then it wasn't made for you.

There's a mod out there for every From Software game on PC to unlock the framerate. I've used most of them and the games play no differently or buggier at 144fps than they do at 60fps. It's apparently not hard for a single, unemployed coder to decouple the physics from the framerate in a game that he doesn't even have the source code for, yet it seems to be a mystery to some AAA developers (especially, but not limited to, From Software).

yeah, who knows? Maybe it's part of a marketing strategy where they are going to hit us with a 1-2 and give us Bloodborne remake + Bloodborne 2? (As far as I understand it, Sony owns Bloodborne. If FromSoft would have to sign off on it, then I highly doubt we ever see Bloodborne 2).

I mean yeah but the cost of actually playing video games goes up by the year. Tons of games nowadays have some sort of season pass or DLC which further jacks up the price.

I'm not sure I get your point.

 

[Shareefruck]

The problem with that argument is it doesn't actually add anything to the conversation, people are allowed to criticize things even if you don't agree with them. I'm just imagining if I listened to an album, told a friend how I didn't like it, and their response was "Well maybe you shouldn't have listened to it then? Shut up and go do something else" lol

Agreed when it comes to things like that, but with things like remasters, I just never agree with the whole "Well yeah, it IS better.... but is it better ENOUGH?" attitude that you always hear. A thing you might find great now exists better than ever. That's what ultimately matters. If you would choose it over the previous version in a vacuum, but don't think the upgrade is significant enough to be worth the money, that's a bad reason to have an issue with the remaster existing, IMO. It's more "you're silly for thinking that way and not being able to separate your immediate individual need from broader value" than "If you don't like it, shut up and do something else." (which I agree, is a sentiment that annoys me a lot too)

To me, criticism is only really warranted when a remaster makes adjustments that are legitimately less tasteful and sensible, making the experience worse for the sake of fidelity/ease (which does happen all the time, unfortunately).

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

1. People are complaining about them remaking certain games at all. Not the quality of the remake. I'd wager most of them haven't even played the remake.

2. If you listened to an album, didn't like it, spent more money to buy the remastered album, and then complained to me you didn't like it, yes, I'd tell you to shut up and go do something else. They are made for super fans who are willing to pay for marginal improvements and to bring in new fans. If you don't fall into those categories, then it wasn't made for you.


yeah, who knows? Maybe it's part of a marketing strategy where they are going to hit us with a 1-2 and give us Bloodborne remake + Bloodborne 2? (As far as I understand it, Sony owns Bloodborne. If FromSoft would have to sign off on it, then I highly doubt we ever see Bloodborne 2).


I'm not sure I get your point.

I don't think remakes/remasters of relatively recent games should be full price. Good on Sony for taking advantage of people I suppose but perhaps the industry could be a little less shitty about their business practices.

And we have Microsoft/Sony competing to be a video game monopoly...

 

[aleshemsky83]

The most interesting recent(ish) remakes to me have been Odin Sphere and Nier Replicant--a pair of games that were made on shoestring budgets initially that developers circled back around to after they'd grown successful enough to take another shot at them.

Remakes/remasters that are done just for modernization are hit or miss but the main issue there imo is that the remake is often just marketed as a replacement to the original, or that they no longer feel a need to make the original readily available. Like, they're not incentivized to make the PS3 version of Demon's Souls available on more platforms and/or to turn those servers back on; if they did people might play that version instead of paying $70 for the remake. Even when a remake turns out good I still think the originals should be made available beyond having to emulate them, which doesn't happen often enough. That said if they want to remake Persona 3 but make it look and play like Persona 5 I have $60 sitting here.

It does get weird when we're "remastering" games that are already available and perfectly functional, though. The Last of Us stuff this time smells to me like "prestige games are extremely expensive to make and the pandemic is costing us a lot of money" but ND knows that their fanboys will buy whatever they put out so they're just selling them the first one again to fill the bank a bit.

Great call on Odin Sphere, amazing remake.

Honestly I would say this is the lowest point videogames have ever been. Graphics are not advancing significant, games are getting more expensive, less creative, less casual, chopped up and stepped on and sold piece by piece. So many things wrong with games. Even massive prestige AAA games with no microtransactions are not good anymore.

I would even come close to saying videogames are dead if not for the occasional Elden ring and BotW. As much hate as cyberpunk got at least that tried to do SOMETHING (although really it's just Jonny nmemonic the videogame)

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Just because AAA games are not being creative doesn’t mean videogames are less creative. There’s so many good and unique smaller games out there that come all the time.

 

[pistolpete11]

Agreed when it comes to things like that, but with things like remasters, I just never agree with the whole "Well yeah, it IS better.... but is it better ENOUGH?" attitude that you always hear. A thing you might find great now exists better than ever. That's what ultimately matters. If you would choose it over the previous version in a vacuum, but don't think the upgrade is significant enough to be worth the money, that's a bad reason to have an issue with the remaster existing, IMO. It's more "you're silly for thinking that way and not being able to separate your immediate individual need from broader value" than "If you don't like it, shut up and do something else." (which I agree, is a sentiment that annoys me a lot too)

To me, criticism is only really warranted when a remaster makes adjustments that are legitimately less tasteful and sensible, making the experience worse for the sake of fidelity/ease (which does happen all the time, unfortunately).

You had my like until you edited your post and called me annoying

You can take issue with my word choice or phrasing or whatever, but you're saying the same thing.

I don't think remakes/remasters of relatively recent games should be full price. Good on Sony for taking advantage of people I suppose but perhaps the industry could be a little less shitty about their business practices.

And we have Microsoft/Sony competing to be a video game monopoly...

I guess. I dunno. I think it's probably just basic economics.

And in the case of something like TLOU, the PS4 remaster is still available for $20 as we speak and is included in PS+. So they aren't preventing you from playing the game for a reasonable price. They are just offering you an improved version. I'm sure the PS5 remake will go on sale in a few months as well.

 

[Shareefruck]

You had my like until you edited your post and called me annoying

You can take issue with my word choice or phrasing or whatever, but you're saying the same thing.


I guess. I dunno. I think it's probably just basic economics.

And in the case of something like TLOU, the PS4 remaster is still available for $20 as we speak and is included in PS+. So they aren't preventing you from playing the game for a reasonable price. They are just offering you an improved version. I'm sure the PS5 remake will go on sale in a few months as well.

I didn't call you annoying, I called the extra sentiment that was tacked on (which, you misunderstand, is not the same as what I was saying) an idea that I find annoying. I don't agree with the idea that you shouldn't negatively comment on things that aren't for you and that you should just keep it to yourself in those cases out of respect for what others appreciate (which the phrasing makes it seem like-- don't know if that was your intention). Instead, I think that if you dislike the fact that a thing exists due to your opinions on how good or bad it actually is, by all means you should complain about it and be vocal/critical regardless of whether or not others enjoy it.

I just think that a distinction should be made between what you have an immediate use for and what you can appreciate being a good thing to exist overall (in your opinion/based on your own tastes, not other people's). It makes sense to criticize things based on the latter, not the former, IMO. I think the "it's not a big enough upgrade" argument (that we're both against) misses that.

If, for example, your tune would change the moment you decide to buy a version either for someone else, or to replace your own copy (and you think that the updated one is the better version, despite not being worth upgrading), that kind of shows how flimsy and short-sighted the original complaint was, you know?

 

[pistolpete11]

I didn't call you annoying, I called the extra sentiment that was tacked on (which, you misunderstand, is not the same as what I was saying) an idea that I find annoying. I don't agree with the idea that you shouldn't negatively comment on things that aren't for you and that you should just keep it to yourself in those cases out of respect for what others appreciate (which the phrasing makes it seem like-- don't know if that was your intention). Instead, I think that if you dislike the fact that a thing exists due to your opinions on how good or bad it actually is, by all means you should complain about it and be vocal/critical regardless of whether or not others enjoy it.

I just think that a distinction should be made between what you have an immediate use for and what you can appreciate being a good thing to exist overall (in your opinion/based on your own tastes, not other people's). It makes sense to criticize things based on the latter, not the former, IMO. I think the "it's not a big enough upgrade" argument (that we're both against) misses that.

If, for example, your tune would change the moment you decide to buy a version either for someone else, or to replace your own copy (and you think that the updated one is the better version, despite not being worth upgrading), that kind of shows how flimsy and short-sighted the original complaint was, you know?

Criticizing games is fine, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about criticizing developers for making games better.

 

[aleshemsky83]

I've heard that Bloodborne is a nightmare to remaster/re-make due to the code and the physics tied to 30fps.

I'm not really tech savvy enough to understand most of this stuff. I just know when it looks better to my eye

But apparently there is a mod out there that gets close to a consistent 60fps. It was done by 1 guy. If he can do that, I'd have to think that a team of professional game developers would be able to do something. The fact they haven't despite the fan outcry and success of Elden Ring, well...it's probably why people are still holding out hope.

There is,



It is locked to 60 fps if you decrease the resolution to 720p, apparently it was only one line of code that the modder adjusted, along with a handful of AI and Cloth Physics stuff that also needed manual patchign, so I dont think its a huge task.

Heres it also AI Upscaled to 4k using ps5 dev kit

 

[Shareefruck]

Criticizing games is fine, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about criticizing developers for making games better.

That's fair and I appreciate the clarification, but know that that's not the existing connotation that "shut up, and let the people that do want it enjoy it" comes with (a common sentiment for not criticizing things because it's subjective/negative). That connotation/saying in general is what I'm calling stupid. If that wasn't what you meant by it, then maybe it is just a poor word choice thing (but the intention was pretty ambiguous to me, personally-- you very well could have been saying that this case was another extension of that stupid rule of thumb that so many people buy into).

It's kind of like "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it." Just... ewww.

 

[aleshemsky83]

Just because AAA games are not being creative doesn’t mean videogames are less creative. There’s so many good and unique smaller games out there that come all the time.

Even Indie games have lost a lot of creativity. The metroidvania and rogue-like fad the last 10 or so years is thankfully subsiding, but its still mostly throwbacks and spiritual successors. Also most of the dialogue is genuinely so bad. It all sounds like it was written by a chick with blue hair or a dude with patchy beard with he/him in his twitter bio.

 

[Andrei79]

Even Indie games have lost a lot of creativity. The metroidvania and rogue-like fad the last 10 or so years is thankfully subsiding, but its still mostly throwbacks and spiritual successors. Also most of the dialogue is genuinely so bad. It all sounds like it was written by a chick with blue hair or a dude with patchy beard with he/him in his twitter bio.

The best written games I've played in recent years have been an indie game and a AA game. The poor writing hasn't been true for a while now. And disagree about them not being creative. They're very numerous, so of course you'll get copy cats. But, by and large it's where you still find games that are different.

 

[Shareefruck]

"Creativity" is kind of an overstated quality anyways. Identity, personality, style, taste, inspiration, and having a more intimate understanding of what makes something special matters so much more, in my opinion. If AAA developers were better at those things, their commonalities and tendencies to just stick to what works wouldn't bother me nearly as much.

I do think that the most wholly creative stuff has probably come from Indies, but I can't say that I really care about that-- What's unique and what's good doesn't necessarily line up.

Personally, I'd love for more and more Metroidvanias to come out even still-- despite it being a trend, nobody's really nailed it yet, IMO. Roguelites and Souls-likes have been getting refined and perfected to a much more convincing degree. Even the most widely loved indie Metroidvania, Hollow Knight, is a far better Souls-like than Metroidvania.

 

[Metroid]

Personally, I'd love for more and more Metroidvanias to come out even still-- despite it being a trend, nobody's really nailed it yet, IMO. Roguelites and Souls-likes have been getting refined and perfected to a much more convincing degree. Even the most widely loved indie Metroidvania, Hollow Knight, is a far better Souls-like than Metroidvania.

Check out Astalon: Tears of the Earth pretty awesome and fun Metroidvania game made by an indie

 

[Shareefruck]

Man, so after having my previous perception of God of War being one of the few good AAA games completely shattered (it kind of sucks, IMO), FromSoftware games really do seem like the only exception out there, for me (Nintendo is a bit more respectable as well, but they haven't blown me away, either).

Check out Astalon: Tears of the Earth pretty awesome and fun Metroidvania game made by an indie

Will keep that in mind. It was on my radar, but not enough to take the plunge. Seemed like the kind of thing that I'd acknowledge a few clever things about, but wouldn't feel there was enough as a whole, but maybe not.