Confirmed with Link: Stars acquire G Scott Wedgewood

FirstRowUpperDeck

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I mean the logic is pretty simple don't commit term and build a roster that is 80% geriatrics
Goalies tend to last longer than most. If we didn't use older goalies, we wouldn't have won the Cup with 34 year old Ed Belfour, or repeated the final trip with 35 year old Ed Belfour.

It's easy to crap on every decision, but my selective amnesia (and spidy sense) tells me that decision wasn't automatically bad. I don't think Holtby was particularly injury prone through his career, and neither was Dobby. Bishop was!
 

serp

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Bishop was likely to break down in the last few years of his contract and he did. No reason to believe Khudobin or Holtby would have injury problems. They never had them before. Holtby isn't even that old.
 

Satan

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Goalies tend to last longer than most. If we didn't use older goalies, we wouldn't have won the Cup with 34 year old Ed Belfour, or repeated the final trip with 35 year old Ed Belfour.

It's easy to crap on every decision, but my selective amnesia (and spidy sense) tells me that decision wasn't automatically bad. I don't think Holtby was particularly injury prone through his career, and neither was Dobby. Bishop was!
i'm going to ban you if you use selective amnesia in another post this week
 

FirstRowUpperDeck

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Agreed, and then the question is, could you have signed Bishop to a term of less than five years? Probably not. While it's easy to say we shouldn't have signed him for that long, if we didn't, we probably wouldn't have had two years of Vezina caliber goaltending.

Similar with Dobby. Yes, two years would be preferred, and I am sure Nill pushed for that, but Dobby held out for the third year on what was surely his last contract. If we didn't pay the third year, we wouldn't have had Dobby for the Cup run (and while some dismiss his play, the fact is he was good enough to get us to the finals, when the whole team crapped out and got tired.

I believe the reality of NHL contracts is that GM's know but have to sign contracts where one or more years will not be productive in the $$$ per point or save. He got them both at reasonable rates, given the market. One way to look at it would be we paid Bishop 5 X 4.9M and got 3 X 8M per year goaltending out of it. We got Dobby cheap, and then paid 3 years at 3 million, but only got 1.5 years at 6 Million, surely, a bit of an overpay, but it is what it is. I doubt other GM's would have done better.

I agree it did take Nill a while to find the right combo. He wasn't going to get their value shopping older vets like Niemi, learned from that, and that is why he went for Bishop, injury history and all. It wasn't even that high a price. I fault him for years of value shopping at the most important position. Also, we have to remember that when he got Dobby, there were other goalies like Talbot that were sexier choices, and in reality, he made the best goalie acquisition that year in Dobby, considering price and performance.
 
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M88K

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Agreed, and then the question is, could you have signed Bishop to a term of less than five years? Probably not. While it's easy to say we shouldn't have signed him for that long, if we didn't, we probably wouldn't have had two years of Vezina caliber goaltending.

Similar with Dobby. Yes, two years would be preferred, and I am sure Nill pushed for that, but Dobby held out for the third year on what was surely his last contract. If we didn't pay the third year, we wouldn't have had Dobby for the Cup run (and while some dismiss his play, the fact is he was good enough to get us to the finals, when the whole team crapped out and got tired.

I believe the reality of NHL contracts is that GM's know but have to sign contracts where one or more years will not be productive in the $$$ per point or save. He got them both at reasonable rates, given the market. One way to look at it would be we paid Bishop 5 X 4.9M and got 3 X 8M per year goaltending out of it. We got Dobby cheap, and then paid 3 years at 3 million, but only got 1.5 years at 6 Million, surely, a bit of an overpay, but it is what it is. I doubt other GM's would have done better.

I agree it did take Nill a while to find the right combo. He wasn't going to get their value shopping older vets like Niemi, learned from that, and that is why he went for Bishop, injury history and all. It wasn't even that high a price. I fault him for years of value shopping at the most important position. Also, we have to remember that when he got Dobby, there were other goalies like Talbot that were sexier choices, and in reality, he made the best goalie acquisition that year in Dobby, considering price and performance.
You do realize he signed him to 3 more years after that, not before.
And as his play had indicated he wasn't worth bringing back for 3 more years.
 
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FirstRowUpperDeck

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You do realize he signed him to 3 more years after that, not before.
And as his play had indicated he wasn't worth bringing back for 3 more years.
Yes, after three years of .923, .930, and .905 (yes, a slight decline, after two years of Vezina level 1B goaltending, and one, IIRC where he had the highest SV% in the league, but still decent) the Stars decided to stick with what they had, at a raise from $2.5M to $3.3M. If he wasn't worth it, Mr. Amateur GM, just which UFA would be he been able to sign cheaper and shorter term, who didn't suck enough to warrant that cheaper salary? Or would be worth trading extra assets for a possible upgrade?

I am waiting......

Nill's decision to use TG's money for that extra year wasn't totally unreasonable. It didn't work out as well as hoped, but it wasn't unreasonable at the time.
 

M88K

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Yes, after three years of .923, .930, and .905 (yes, a slight decline, after two years of Vezina level 1B goaltending, and one, IIRC where he had the highest SV% in the league, but still decent) the Stars decided to stick with what they had, at a raise from $2.5M to $3.3M. If he wasn't worth it, Mr. Amateur GM, just which UFA would be he been able to sign cheaper and shorter term, who didn't suck enough to warrant that cheaper salary? Or would be worth trading extra assets for a possible upgrade?

I am waiting......

Nill's decision to use TG's money for that extra year wasn't totally unreasonable. It didn't work out as well as hoped, but it wasn't unreasonable at the time.
Almost every UFA goalie signed that year, was signed to shorter term and at worst similar money IIRC. Talbot and Markstrom were the only exceptions I think. I'd have to actually take the time to look up all the UFA goalie signings, and i really just don't care to.
It's irrelevent, because even though It was a dumb signing, and I've said as much from day 1, and we've now literally gotten to watch it blow up in his face for two seasons (as f***ing expected), you seem to think Nill walks on water, and everything he does is great. So continuing this with you is pointless.
 

FirstRowUpperDeck

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Almost every UFA goalie signed that year, was signed to shorter term and at worst similar money IIRC. Talbot and Markstrom were the only exceptions I think. I'd have to actually take the time to look up all the UFA goalie signings, and i really just don't care to.
It's irrelevent, because even though It was a dumb signing, and I've said as much from day 1, and we've now literally gotten to watch it blow up in his face for two seasons (as f***ing expected), you seem to think Nill walks on water, and everything he does is great. So continuing this with you is pointless.
I take it you aren't arguing against Dobby's play under his first contract, and if you are, this discussion is indded pointless, as you will never be satisfied. As to his second contract with the Stars in October 2020, Sportsnet ranked him as the top UFA backup goalie, ahead of the others available that year, which included (in order of the Sportsnet rankings), Halak, Greiss, Talbot, Crawford, Dell, Smith, Elliot, Anderson, and Miller.

Jacob Markstrom signed a 6 year / $36,000,000 contract with the Calgary Flames, and was obviously better (although his stats the year before in VAN were nothing special, and I doubt he would sign as a backup with the Stars.

Like you, I am not going to do that work for the other 9 goalies on that list, but none of the names jumps out as a better option (at the time). While we would all have liked (including Nill) to get him for two years instead of three, Dobby's agent knew where he stood and tried to max out the money, which is his job.

So, it wasn't a perfect contract, but no, it was not a dumb signing, Nill isn't an idiot, and as usual, it is just so easy for fans to craft the "he's an idiot" narrative because they have se.......the phrase I am not allowed to use here until Sunday.:rolleyes:

And, I don't think Nill walks on water....holy over reaction batman! I just seem to have a more balanced view of his deals compared to most here, where any good deal was pure luck and all the bad ones or average ones would have been avoided if only the Stars had been smart enough to hire that poster as GM, LOL. As someone has noted here, the Oil have changed coaches and GM's with both two of the best players in the NHL, and the results continue to be poor. But somehow, if the Stars changed coach and GM, our results would be Cups for the next twenty years?

Every contract is a real question for owners and GM's. And a real question for owners as to whether replacing the 10th-15th most successful GM is going to improve results. Maybe, the the known quantities at GM are usually locked up, and there are no guarantees a new guy is going to be any better. It is similar to the first round draft pick always being touted by fans as the next great thing who can "easily" replace the current crop (i.e., TyD can replace Faksa for example) but it just doesn't work out that way too often.
 
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Ratbath

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I liked Dobby's contract because it was built for him to be poached by Seattle. They never should have protected him even knowing Bish was out.
 
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BG44

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My 9-year-old nephew will lose his shit if Wedgewood puts the Hulk on his mask.

 

JesusNPucks

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Overall, has been a perfectly serviceable back up goalie so far. I wonder what kind of contract they will offer him. Maybe some thing like three years at $1.5M, perhaps?
 
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MBTendy

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I wonder if Dallas goes for more of a veteran back up if Wedgewood doesn’t wow us from here on out. Wouldn’t surprise me unfortunately as I think Wedgewood is a fine backup that can be had for 1-1.5mill.

Spend that money elsewhere
 

BfantZ

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I wonder if Dallas goes for more of a veteran back up if Wedgewood doesn’t wow us from here on out. Wouldn’t surprise me unfortunately as I think Wedgewood is a fine backup that can be had for 1-1.5mill.

Spend that money elsewhere
I don’t quite understand the unfortunately part . Stars need a back up and one that is super cheap but still good enough to steal games . Wedgewood fits the bill perfectly .
 
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FirstRowUpperDeck

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I doubt he goes for under $1 Mil. It seems like anything less is an insult to vets, unless they are real borderline players just happy to still be in the league.

I think he is mentally part of the team now and if he wins a few more games as a backup, they will likely keep him as the known quantity, if they can afford whatever his asking price is. I also doubt he goes for more than $2Mil.
 

MBTendy

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I don’t quite understand the unfortunately part . Stars need a back up and one that is super cheap but still good enough to steal games . Wedgewood fits the bill perfectly .

I’m saying unfortunately I can see the Stars deciding to go for a veteran that cost a bit more because we have a young starter appose to re-signing Wedgewood
 
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BfantZ

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I’m saying unfortunately I can see the Stars deciding to go for a veteran that cost a bit more because we have a young starter appose to re-signing Wedgewood
Okay , you confused me a little bit lol
 
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Bishop will still be under contract for another season so he can sort of fill the role of "veteran support", making it less critical to have an actual veteran backup.
 

BG44

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The story had some fun insight about his Marvel-themed mask, but the interesting thing about the story is that he admitted he'd like a 2-year contract after all the moving he's done in his career. There's often an opportunity with a guy like that to bump down the AAV a skosh for more security. He also said he 100% wanted to come back to Dallas.

I've been thinking it's probably a long shot for him to be in the $900K to $1M range, but it would be nice considering the contract they'll be giving Otter.

I have no idea how a $1M would be an "insult" to a vet though. He's been a career waiver wire goalie for bottom feeders. A handful of games in Dallas didn't make him a $2M or essentially one of the top backups in the league (I'm not talking 1B's here ... just traditional backups). That would be extremely poor cap management for Dallas or really any other team. Most traditional backups are in that league minimum to maxing out at $1.5M range.

If Dallas is giving any backup that much money next season with a flat cap, overage penalty, and major contracts to Robertson and Oettinger, they're really blowing it at cap management. That's not a knock on Wedgewood, but some team would have to really love him throw around that much money for what he's shown in his career.

 
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serp

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Maximum money i'd give Wedgewood is the max money that goes off the cap when someone is waived and send to the AHL ( $1,125,000 ). I'm ok with 1 way and/or 2 years

So most i'd offer is 2x$1,125,000 . If Wedgewood wants more or gets offered more i'd stay away.

I would think this would get him re-signed though , probably less.
 
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Captain Awesome

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That would actually be a raise, he's making $825k this year, which is the most he's ever made. I'd be fine with it if Khudobin wasn't also here, but if the Stars have decided they're just going to ride out that cap hit with him in the AHL then 2x$1M for Wedgewood would be nice. No worrying about a backup goalie for a while, and he seems like he's a solid backup.

Will be interesting to see if Holtby can get himself a new deal as a starter again, he'll make up part of a great geriatric duo with Mike Smith in Edmonton.
 

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