OT: Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

[Hollywood Cannon]

And he was also using a lightsaber that Kylo/Rey had just torn apart like 10 minutes earlier in the movie. Surprised Kylo Ren didn't notice that

Yeah, that's the first thing I recognized but I didn't notice til the second viewing that Luke never made contact with Ren nor did he leave any footprints.

 

[Rebels57]

Alright, finally saw it: I thought it was great.

I'm failing to see the big problems with it people are saying.

Non-formulaic and non-conventional narrative choices are always going to be devisive.

 

[TCTC]

What I'm wondering is, what about the Knights of Ren? Do they even exist? I know Luke mentioned something about Kylo Ren taking some of his students with him, but after two movies I would've expected a little more than that.

I don't even want to get into all the plot issues I have with this movie because I'm sure they've been mentioned multiple times already...

 

[BrindamoursNose]

What I'm wondering is, what about the Knights of Ren? Do they even exist? I know Luke mentioned something about Kylo Ren taking some of his students with him, but after two movies I would've expected a little more than that.

I don't even want to get into all the plot issues I have with this movie because I'm sure they've been mentioned multiple times already...

Knights of Ren do indeed exist -- Snoke mentioned them, too in TFA. Looks like we just didn't get to see them.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I’m guessing the Knights of Ren are going to be Kylo’s Praetorian Guards.

 

[The Rage Kage]

Non-formulaic and non-conventional narrative choices are always going to be devisive.

I think its a bit disingenuous to say that is why people don't like it. The movie has a lot of problems that have nothing to do with the main beats of the story. I also wouldn't say it was that non-formulaic or non-conventional, it wasn't too difficult to see where the movie was going.

(This part isnt directed at you Rebels57) I read this post and previous ones which were all pretty harsh, so just know I'm not just trying to mindlessly hate on the movie here. It may seem that way but I'm only critical because I love Star Wars and think the movie had immese potential which it wasted.

Honestly I think Rian Johnson was hamstrung by JJ and Kasdan's choices for the force awakens, they set the trilogy up to fail by completely undoing any character growth from the OT and all of the change the OT characters fought for.

Can't wait for Solo, even though my expectations can't get much lower. I will be devastated if they can't make a good Kenobi movie.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Seeing it for third time tonight.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I think its a bit disingenuous to say that is why people don't like it. The movie has a lot of problems that have nothing to do with the main beats of the story. I also wouldn't say it was that non-formulaic or non-conventional, it wasn't too difficult to see where the movie was going.

(This part isnt directed at you Rebels57) I read this post and previous ones which were all pretty harsh, so just know I'm not just trying to mindlessly hate on the movie here. It may seem that way but I'm only critical because I love Star Wars and think the movie had immese potential which it wasted.

Honestly I think Rian Johnson was hamstrung by JJ and Kasdan's choices for the force awakens, they set the trilogy up to fail by completely undoing any character growth from the OT and all of the change the OT characters fought for.

Can't wait for Solo, even though my expectations can't get much lower. I will be devastated if they can't make a good Kenobi movie.

May I ask you to delve into what you believe made the film disappointing?

I'll say that I only had a few problems:

- Leia should be dead. Didn't like how they handled that.
- Snoke was killed too easily (Note: I don't care that Snoke died. They didn't invest in him anyway, so I'm not upset they didn't flesh him out).
- It's debatable about how DJ knew Finn/Rose's transport escape plan...possible, but debatable.

Otherwise, I think that's it. I loved it and Kylo Ren is a huge favorite of mine right now.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

DJ knew everything. Poe was talking to Finn about Holdo’s plan when DJ was sitting there. It’s not a plot hole.

 

[TCTC]

To me it felt like they only included that Finn/Rose subplot because they needed something to do for Finn because he's a fan favorite. That entire segment was completely pointless and felt out of place.
Cut it out completely and it won't make a difference. Especially if del Toro doesn't return for Episode IX.

They could've used the time much better, imo.

 

[Pantokrator]

I'm still thinking through it. My favorite part was sending the ship into hyperspace through the First Order Fleet.

For what its worth, my daughter, who loved the last episode didn't like this one because she said the whole plot was "to save the big ship!" as she yelled in the car over and over and over again. She seemed to think it lacked any really good plot - just save the big ship. She also said it was pretty much fighting the whole time with no down time (i.e. the Cantina in IV, Cloud City in V, Dagobah in VI, et al.).

I'm still thinking through everything. I really need to see it again.

 

[Pantokrator]

Shocked by some of the reactions here. Thought it was maybe the 2nd best film in the entire series.


2) Luke's end. I'm VERY conflicted about the end of his arc. I understand why it makes sense on a story-level, but on a movie-level this lifelong fan really want to see Luke being a complete badass in a light saber duel, and I didn't really get that.

I agree - I would have loved Luke to have destroyed all those new-fangled AT-ATs. I liked that he died the way he did though, on his own terms.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

DJ knew everything. Poe was talking to Finn about Holdo’s plan when DJ was sitting there. It’s not a plot hole.

If I remember correctly: that wasn't the plan DJ heard. Haldo didn't know about Poe/Finn/Rose's plan (which is what they were there to execute/why they needed a "master code breaker."

Their plan was to break down the tracker on the main First Order ship and jump to light speed after. Haldo's plan to send everyone in transports came into fruition later.

Or am I misremembering and Poe told this to Fin over a communicator? If so, then there is no plot hole like you said.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

To me it felt like they only included that Finn/Rose subplot because they needed something to do for Finn because he's a fan favorite. That entire segment was completely pointless and felt out of place.
Cut it out completely and it won't make a difference. Especially if del Toro doesn't return for Episode IX.

They could've used the time much better, imo.

I think it had its purpose; specifically the disparity between rich and poor...how they became that way...and what it will lead to eventually (little boy with force abilities joining the Rebellion/Resistance in the future)

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

If I remember correctly: that wasn't the plan DJ heard. Haldo didn't know about Poe/Finn/Rose's plan (which is what they were there to execute/why they needed a "master code breaker."

Their plan was to break down the tracker on the main First Order ship and jump to light speed after. Haldo's plan to send everyone in transports came into fruition later.

Or am I misremembering and Poe told this to Fin over a communicator? If so, then there is no plot hole like you said.

Poe told him over the communicator when they were on the ship heading to the Supremecy. He didn’t mention the ships being cloaked but that’s common sense. He just said Holdo was going to evacuate using the transports.

What he didn’t know about was the rebel base on Crait.

 

[Rebels57]

I think it had its purpose; specifically the disparity between rich and poor...how they became that way...and what it will lead to eventually (little boy with force abilities joining the Rebellion/Resistance in the future)

Well said.

Honestly the only part of that sequence I would cut is the stampede. That wasnt satisfying or important and was just a waste of time.

Aside from that, the only other part of the movie I would have changed would be allowing Luke to cause some destruction at the end rather than just being there as a diversion. Let him actually dual Kylo. I did like the way he died though. First time we see him in Episode IV he is looking at the two suns on Tattooine..so to have him come full circle and see them again before becoming one with the force was a beautiful moment.

 

[TCTC]

I think it had its purpose; specifically the disparity between rich and poor...how they became that way...and what it will lead to eventually (little boy with force abilities joining the Rebellion/Resistance in the future)

I don't know, it felt more like needless social commentary to me. I mean we've had that in Star Wars movies before, but this was a bit much. It took me out of the movie for a bit.

I really liked everything with Rey and Kylo Ren, though. They should've put more focus on that instead, imo.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I don't know, it felt more like needless social commentary to me. I mean we've had that in Star Wars movies before, but this was a bit much. It took me out of the movie for a bit.

I really liked everything with Rey and Kylo Ren, though. They should've put more focus on that instead, imo.

I think it just brought us back to the whole origin of this thing: not wanting an evil empire to take control of the galaxy, to put power in the hands of the people rather than the militaristic empire (and those that profit from war and devastation). While doing that, it also explains how it isn't over for the Resistance yet -- how the universe will rise up as the oppressed will fight back.

I really didn't think it was a social commentary at all, truthfully. Was essential to the plot for this and the next film (maybe even beyond).

 

[The Rage Kage]

May I ask you to delve into what you believe made the film disappointing?

I'll say that I only had a few problems:

- Leia should be dead. Didn't like how they handled that.
- Snoke was killed too easily (Note: I don't care that Snoke died. They didn't invest in him anyway, so I'm not upset they didn't flesh him out).
- It's debatable about how DJ knew Finn/Rose's transport escape plan...possible, but debatable.

Otherwise, I think that's it. I loved it and Kylo Ren is a huge favorite of mine right now.

I started writing a really in depth essay about what I didn’t like and why, going into what I think would have been better, but I realized no one would actually read it and I didn’t want to waste hours of my day on that. So I settled for a brief point form version. I'm sure there's more but this is what I remember right now. My real problem is the whole idea of the movie, I really think is awful, but these are things easier to put into words.

I've also got a lot of really nitpicky things that I wont mention.

• The marvel style humour, apart from jar jar most of the humour in star wars is pretty dry

• big mean empire vs ragtag heroes again

• almost disrespect for beloved characters (pretty much off screen death for akbar)

• nonsensical plot. Finns whole story and the final battle at the base would not have happened if laura derns character just told Poe (one of the higher ranking resistance members) the plan from the beginning (meaning luke survives)

• fundamentally changing lukes character, he saw the good in a man who murdered a bunch of little children yet at the end of this has given up on kylo

• undercutting what should be emotional/tense scenes with unneccesary slapstick (bb8 losing his head when poe just sees a bunch of resistance members blown up and the praetorian guard exploding)

• trying to be different but safe at the same time. They would tease main characters death but not follow through (finn and leia the most egregious)

• rey being an expert at everything the first time she tries it, one or two things is fine, but the only real adversity she deals with is not knowing who her parents are.

• this new tracking technology that only some lowly mechanic and former first order grunt know about. If you even have an inkling that something like that is being developed it might be a good idea to tell your superiors.

• hardly see any species from pt/ot feels like a different universe.

Edit: i really cant stress enough how dumb it was to go back to rebels vs empire, there was so many quality stories in the old eu that stayed true to the spirit of star wars but still made it feel unique. I dont think the last jedi succeded in that.

 

[TCTC]

Couldn't agree more about the humour in this movie. I hated it and I don't think I laughed once.
The first scene with Poe and Hux was particularly terrible. When I saw that I really worried what kind of movie we would get. It got better after that, but man, what a terrible way to start a movie.

 

[trostol]

Saw it...probably does not deserve the hate it is getting but does deserve criticism for what seems to be a mess of a film...trying to cram so much into a small window..and timing of things..like the spots for humorous moments and what not

also seems the theme of the movie was pretty much what Ren said..forget the past..cause they seemed to rip apart a lot of what was in past movies

 

[The Rage Kage]

Couldn't agree more about the humour in this movie. I hated it and I don't think I laughed once.
The first scene with Poe and Hux was particularly terrible. When I saw that I really worried what kind of movie we would get. It got better after that, but man, what a terrible way to start a movie.

Only one scene got me to laugh. When Rose rose "saved" Finn and the door is exploding in the background. I would hope Rian Johnson was going for irony there...

 

[TCTC]

Only one scene got me to laugh. When Rose rose "saved" Finn and the door is exploding in the background. I would hope Rian Johnson was going for irony there...

I didn't even notice that.

 

[The Rage Kage]

I didn't even notice that.

I think I mentioned it earlier but the whole scenario is hilarious. Finn goes kamikazi because he finally cares about the resistance and wants to save them, but then Rose, wanting to save Finn crashes into him. Then she tells Finn that to win the war they can't fight but have to save the people they love (cue door exoloding), even though that is exactly what Finn was doing and if it weren't for Luke she likely would have got the whole resistance killed including her and Finn who would have been captured and executed.

This reminds me, when Finn and Rose escape Snoke's ship they crash into the base, but the resistance doesnt know it is them and almost shoots them... so that means the resistance just hung out with the big hangar door wide open and waited until a ship got close enough to get in before shutting it.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

I think I mentioned it earlier but the whole scenario is hilarious. Finn goes kamikazi because he finally cares about the resistance and wants to save them, but then Rose, wanting to save Finn crashes into him. Then she tells Finn that to win the war they can't fight but have to save the people they love (cue door exoloding), even though that is exactly what Finn was doing and if it weren't for Luke she likely would have got the whole resistance killed including her and Finn who would have been captured and executed.

This reminds me, when Finn and Rose escape Snoke's ship they crash into the base, but the resistance doesnt know it is them and almost shoots them... so that means the resistance just hung out with the big hangar door wide open and waited until a ship got close enough to get in before shutting it.

Yeah that was pure nonsense with Finn and Rose. The themes of the movie made little sense and were half baked.

Zero explanation on what Snoke was, is very stupid. I don't need it to be some extravagant thing, but come on.

BB8 driving the ATST, pure drivel. I groaned out loud. Same with him SHOOTING COINS out to defeat armed guards at the casino? So much cringe.

This movie is fine if you don't care about strong stories and well written plots. This is a STUFF HAPPENS! movie that's made just to have stuff happen in a star wars universe and make a shit load of money off of toys and memorabilia. That's why the fans should be upset. This new trilogy isn't a story that needed to be told. It's a story that was created after the fact to rob your wallets.