Online Series: Star Trek: Discovery - Topic II

[Cloned]

The beginning of every Trek show has featured clunky acting...the characters never start out as well developed, and the actor and writers have to develop them over time.

The series just didn't grab me, though - I couldn't get through the first episode, I sure as hell am not paying CBS, a network I generally despise anyway, for a show that didn't interest me at all from the start.

There is a significant (and by significant, I mean Grand Canyon sized) change in writing and presentation between Episode 2 and Episode 3 (generally regarded as when Fuller left the show). I didn't much like the pilots, but Episode 3 was markedly better, and 4 just builds on 3.

If you have a chance to watch Episode 3, I'd recommend giving it a chance.

 

[NyQuil]

Sold after the 4th episode. Acting is still pretty clunky but it is an entertaining show. Not a trekkie at all so I don't really have any complaints about comparing it to old shows or titles of the episodes. Can't wait for the next one.

I didn't mind episode 4 either.

 

[Osprey]

There is a significant (and by significant, I mean Grand Canyon sized) change in writing and presentation between Episode 2 and Episode 3 (generally regarded as when Fuller left the show). I didn't much like the pilots, but Episode 3 was markedly better, and 4 just builds on 3.

Fuller left the series in October 2016 and filming didn't start until January 2017. He was already 3 months gone when the pilot started filming. Also, he wrote out the story framework for the entire first season (and, perhaps, beyond), which the current show runners have acknowledged that they're sticking to. His name is still in the credits as executive producer and, for this season, at least, it still seems to be considered his show.

The writing and presentation are exactly the same between Episodes 2 and 3, IMO, which is what you'd expect since there wasn't any staff changeover between them, after all. Many of the complaints from the pilots are still there, such as plot inconsistencies, unlikable characters, overstuffed visuals and dramatic moments that fall flat. It's just that the plot was moved forward, which it was going to do, anyway. It's not like Fuller had the whole season taking place on the Shenzhou and they completely scrapped and re-wrote the majority of the season in only 3 months. The Shenzhou being destroyed in the pilots and Burnham moving on to the Discovery was going to happen anyway. That's why Fuller named the show Discovery months before he left.

This isn't to say that there's anything wrong with believing Episodes 3 and 4 to be better than the pilots. It's just not because of changes to the show. It's almost certainly because pilots tend to be a mess (due to the conflicting goals of entertainment and establishment of characters and story) and Discovery's pilots were essentially a prologue.

 

[Harbinger]

The security chief was quite funny.

 

[Cloned]

Am actually looking forward to this episode. I haven't had this level of anticipation for televised Star Trek since DS9.

 

[solidprospect]

Acting is as bad as star trek:enterprise but still look forward to each episode, visual effects are quite good and that usually gets me.

 

[Blender]

Acting is as bad as star trek:enterprise but still look forward to each episode, visual effects are quite good and that usually gets me.

Most of the characters have been as shallow and uninteresting as Enterprise so far as well. Hopefully it improves.

I wouldn't be upset to never see another "Klingon" scene though.

 

[Blender]

Apparently being insubordinate is tolerated right at the top.

 

[tacogeoff]

Liking the episode so far but the Klingons are presented terribly.

 

[NyQuil]

This episode is trying to be shocking but it's clumsy.

 

[Blender]

This episode is trying to be shocking but it's clumsy.

Agreed, but it's probably the best episode of the series so far.

So now that we've seen a Klingon speaking English perfectly well, why is their Klingon so terrible? Obviously it's not the prosthetics and it's an intentional choice for them to speak...so...slowly...and...sound...so...garbled.

 

[johnjm22]

This was the most compelling episode so far. I was actually engaged in it. It had more character stuff.

If I'm judging it as Star Trek it fails miserably because it's not Star Trek, but looking at this on its own I think I somewhat enjoyed it despite its flaws.

First decent episode IMO. I give it a C+.

 

[Tawnos]

I thought that was really good, although I’m curious as to what either of you mean by “it’s trying to be shocking.”

Never enjoy Mudd.

Tyler is going to be our Landry replacement. Lorca’s do anything loyal ally. But permanently, since he’s a central cast member.

 

[Blender]

This was the most compelling episode so far. I was actually engaged in it. It had more character stuff.

If I'm judging it as Star Trek it fails miserably because it's not Star Trek, but looking at this on its own I think I somewhat enjoyed it despite its flaws.

First decent episode IMO. I give it a C+.

It was probably the most Star Trek episode of the series at least, but yea it still really doesn't feel like it has any connection to a 50 year franchise beyond the names.

The Klingons have been a massive disappointment.

 

[Blender]

I thought that was really good, although I’m curious as to what either of you mean by “it’s trying to be shocking.”

There were multiple "shock" moments like the Klingon beating the guy to death, the torture, the Harry Mudd selling them out revelation, the tardigrade stuff, Stamets both using the gene therapy on himself and that little horror moment at the end, etc. None of it was executed in a way that came off as shocking or really that compelling. It was clumsily done.

 

[johnjm22]

It was probably the most Star Trek episode of the series at least, but yea it still really doesn't feel like it has any connection to a 50 year franchise beyond the names.

The Klingons have been a massive disappointment.

The scene with the female Klingon and Lorca was okay, but the Klingon prosthetics look fake and didn't really allow the actress to emote as much as needed IMO. There's a lack of facial expression. Maybe we'll get used to it.

There was some interesting stuff in this episode, but like you said it doesn't feel connected to Trek.

 

[Tawnos]

There were multiple "shock" moments like the Klingon beating the guy to death, the torture, the Harry Mudd selling them out revelation, the tardigrade stuff, Stamets both using the gene therapy on himself and that little horror moment at the end, etc. None of it was executed in a way that came off as shocking or really that compelling. It was clumsily done.

Well okay. I mean, I didn’t find any of that remotely shocking, nor did I think shock was how they were presenting it. I mean, the Klingons are brutal, so we got a demonstration of it. Mudd is slimy as hell, so we got a demonstration of that. The tardigrade stuff was all set up in the previous episode, nothing shocking there.

And given that it IS Star Trek, you knew someone was going into that chamber. Self-sacrifice is a hallmark of the series. They even mention it earlier in the episode as a quality that makes a good captain.

In fact, I think most of this was presented in a way as to be the opposite of shocking. More of a “this is the world this show lives in” kind of presentation. Very matter of fact.

 

[Blender]

So Lt. Tyler is a Klingon spy, right?

 

[Blender]

Well okay. I mean, I didn’t find any of that remotely shocking, nor did I think shock was how they were presenting it. I mean, the Klingons are brutal, so we got a demonstration of it. Mudd is slimy as hell, so we got a demonstration of that. The tardigrade stuff was all set up in the previous episode, nothing shocking there.

And given that it IS Star Trek, you knew someone was going into that chamber. Self-sacrifice is a hallmark of the series. They even mention it earlier in the episode as a quality that makes a good captain.

In fact, I think most of this was presented in a way as to be the opposite of shocking. More of a “this is the world this show lives in” kind of presentation. Very matter of fact.

You seem to think by shocking I mean surprising, I mean shocking as they were trying to illicit an emotional reaction. The music cues, the way it was shot, the character reactions on screen, all of that told me that is what they were going for, and I didn't think it was done very well. It was clumsy and flat to the point where I had no reaction to it at all.

 

[Tawnos]

You seem to think by shocking I mean surprising, I mean shocking as they were trying to illicit an emotional reaction. The music cues, the way it was shot, the character reactions on screen, all of that told me that is what they were going for, and I didn't think it was done very well. It was clumsy and flat to the point where I had no reaction to it at all.

Shocking is not the same thing as provocative OR evocative.

 

[Blender]

Shocking is not the same thing as provocative OR evocative.

1. cause (someone) to feel surprised and upset.
"she was shocked at the state of his injuries"

• offend the moral feelings of; outrage.
  "the revelations shocked the nation"
  

  synonyms:

  appall, horrify, outrage, revolt, disgust, nauseate, sicken; More traumatize, distress, upset, disturb, disquiet, unsettle; stun, rock, stagger, astound, astonish, amaze, startle, surprise, dumbfound, shake, take aback, throw, unnerve "the murder shocked the nation"

  [TBODY] [/TBODY]
• experience feelings of outrage.
  "he shocked so easily"

It means exactly what I said it means. They were going for a shock factor, the emotional kind not the surprise kind.

 

[Tawnos]

It means exactly what I said it means. They were going for a shock factor, the emotional kind not the surprise kind.

You can’t have the emotional kind without surprise.

 

[Osprey]

If I'm judging it as Star Trek it fails miserably because it's not Star Trek, but looking at this on its own I think I somewhat enjoyed it despite its flaws.

It's too bad that they didn't just put it in some other universe and call it something else. If it were something new and not connected to past sci-fi--if it were like Babylon 5, for example--many of its problems could be more forgivable and it'd be somewhat enjoyable.

It's as I said before: the series is trying to be Star Trek by having Starfleet, transporters and Klingons... and, now, Harry Mudd, who (only 5 episodes in) has been established as a recurring headache for Lorca in the same way that he was for Kirk. It's as if they're afraid that it won't be successful unless fans recognize the ornaments of Star Trek, not giving them the credit to recognize what feels like Star Trek.

 

[Blender]

You can’t have the emotional kind without surprise.

Since when? You can be offended, disgusted, disturbed, etc. without being surprised. I'm not surprised with the way Klingon's treat people, and they clearly weren't going for surprise. If you'd rather use the word provocative because you're ignoring a legitimate meaning for a word, be my guest. The criticism doesn't change.

 

[Tawnos]

Since when? You can be offended, disgusted, disturbed, etc. without being surprised. I'm not surprised with the way Klingon's treat people, and they clearly weren't going for surprise. If you'd rather use the word provocative because you're ignoring a legitimate meaning for a word, be my guest. The criticism doesn't change.

I would say that surprise is somewhat a part of all of those things. But if you had said provocative, I wouldn’t have questioned it. I might have disagreed with your assessment of its quality, but not what they were going for.