Online Series: Star Trek: Discovery - Topic II

[johnjm22]

The writers/producers keep saying that everything will be explained and that it will be Trek-compatible.

In episode 5 we found out L'Rell and her house have an espionage background. I'm pretty sure that means Voq is going to go through some sort of genetic transformation and become a spy. That's what L'Rell meant in episode 4: "It will cost you everything." Maybe this is the beginning of the genetic experiments that changed the look of the Klingons?

Also, there was foreshadowing at the end of the episode with Stamets. I think his "trip" took him to the mirror universe and this will be the beginning of the mirror universe tie ins, or the Stamets we see now is from the mirror universe.

 

[Blender]

I would say that surprise is somewhat a part of all of those things. But if you had said provocative, I wouldn’t have questioned it. I might have disagreed with your assessment of its quality, but not what they were going for.

By your criteria it can't be provocative without surprise either.

The writers/producers keep saying that everything will be explained and that it will be Trek-compatible.

In episode 5 we found out L'Rell and her house have an espionage background. I'm pretty sure that means Voq is going to go through some sort of genetic transformation and become a spy. That's what L'Rell meant in episode 4: "It will cost you everything." Maybe this is the beginning of the genetic experiments that changed the look of the Klingons?

Also, there was foreshadowing at the end of the episode with Stamets. I think his "trip" took him to the mirror universe and this will be the beginning of the mirror universe tie ins, or the Stamets we see now is from the mirror universe.

I'm guessing Voq is Lt. Tyler. It's an obvious twist. Lorca also has a Tribble in his office, and they don't like Klingons. Chekhov's Gun and all that.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Freeing the Tardigrade was expected.

I still don't like the Klingons in this show.

Harry Mudd in this show doesn't have any kind of likeability like he does like from TOS

 

[Osprey]

The writers/producers keep saying that everything will be explained and that it will be Trek-compatible.

I think that they'll say anything to keep fans watching and to discourage criticism.

In episode 5 we found out L'Rell and her house have an espionage background. I'm pretty sure that means Voq is going to go through some sort of genetic transformation and become a spy. That's what L'Rell meant in episode 4: "It will cost you everything." Maybe this is the beginning of the genetic experiments that changed the look of the Klingons?

Was that the same female from the last episode? It didn't cross my mind that it was the same, since she was in command of a ship (whereas the one in the last episode was in command of nothing) and all of the male Klingons look alike.

Genetic experiments might change a few Klingons, like what was done to Khan and his followers, but I don't see how that possibly explains the entire Klingon civilization changing.

Also, there was foreshadowing at the end of the episode with Stamets. I think his "trip" took him to the mirror universe and this will be the beginning of the mirror universe tie ins, or the Stamets we see now is from the mirror universe.

Well, Stamets was in the mirror . I don't buy the theory that all of what we've seen so far is a mirror universe of the Trek universe that we know, but it could be something that's started occurring since the spore drive was first used. Perhaps instead of jumping between points in the same universe, they've been jumping between points in alternate universes... or something like that. In fact, the Stamets shown in the mirror looked like he wasn't partnered with the doctor. Before this episode, there was no indication that Stamets and the doctor were together. Stamets might've been single in Episodes 3 and 4 and, by hooking himself into the spore drive, managed to transport himself to an alternate universe in which he was partnered up and living with the doctor.

Edit: I just went back and watched the interaction between Stamets and Culber (the doctor) in sick bay in Episode 4. Stamets gave a sarcastic correction about the frontal lobe of the brain and Culber replied, "well, I'll save it... you know, just in case you might want to have a feeling one day." It could've been playful banter, but that seems like a pretty harsh thing to say to your partner, in public, no less, and it seemed like they didn't really like each other.

 

[Blender]

I think that they'll say anything to keep fans watching and to discourage criticism.



Was that the same female from the last episode? Honestly, I can't tell any of these "Klingons" apart.

Genetic experiments might change a few Klingons, like what was done to Khan and his followers, but I don't see how that possibly explains the entire Klingon civilization changing.



Well, Stamets was in the mirror . I don't buy the theory that all of what we've seen so far is a mirror universe of the Trek universe that we know, but it could be something that's started occurring since the spore drive was first used. Perhaps instead of jumping between points in the same universe, they've been jumping to points in alternate universes... or something like that. In fact, the Stamets shown in the mirror looked like he wasn't partnered with the doctor. Before this episode, there was no indication that Stamets and the doctor were together. Stamets might've been single in Episodes 3 and 4 and, by hooking himself into the spore drive, managed to transport himself to an alternate universe in which he was partnered up and living with the doctor.

That relationship came out of nowhere.

2 episodes ago he lost his research partner and husband (partner? Wasn't clear that I recall), now it seems like he's been with the doctor for some time. It's only been a month since the Glenn was trashed, he sure grieved and hooked up quick.

Last week I was betting on an Event Horizon type plot with the spore drive. Stamets seems like a strong candidate for going nuts now.

 

[Ducks in a row]

The writers/producers keep saying that everything will be explained and that it will be Trek-compatible.

In episode 5 we found out L'Rell and her house have an espionage background. I'm pretty sure that means Voq is going to go through some sort of genetic transformation and become a spy. That's what L'Rell meant in episode 4: "It will cost you everything." Maybe this is the beginning of the genetic experiments that changed the look of the Klingons?

Also, there was foreshadowing at the end of the episode with Stamets. I think his "trip" took him to the mirror universe and this will be the beginning of the mirror universe tie ins, or the Stamets we see now is from the mirror universe.

Star Trek Enterprise covered why the Klingons looked the way they do in TOS being different then they looked earlier in Star Trek Enterprise and Star Trek The Motion Picture and beyond.

Before the change

After the change

So for the Klingons to look the way they do in Star Trek Discovery they have to of done something to look the way they do. After that they then have to have something again happen to them to change back to looking like TOS Klingons for things to make sense with TOS Klingons looking why they do

 

[johnjm22]

Well, Stamets was in the mirror . I don't buy the theory that all of what we've seen so far is a mirror universe of the Trek universe that we know, but it could be something that's started occurring since the spore drive was first used. Perhaps instead of jumping between points in the same universe, they've been jumping between points in alternate universes... or something like that. In fact, the Stamets shown in the mirror looked like he wasn't partnered with the doctor. Before this episode, there was no indication that Stamets and the doctor were together. Stamets might've been single in Episodes 3 and 4 and, by hooking himself into the spore drive, managed to transport himself to an alternate universe in which he was partnered up and living with the doctor.

All of what we've seen so far might not be mirror universe, but we do know for a fact that there is going to be mirror universe episodes. It was reported that in the original outline of the show the mirror universe played a significant role.

Genetic experiments might change a few Klingons, like what was done to Khan and his followers, but I don't see how that possibly explains the entire Klingon civilization changing.

It's been awhile since I watched, but in Enterprise some sort of the genetic alterations the Klingons went through are the explanation they give for why the Klingons look different in The Original Series. Somehow I think they're going to tie that into this Discovery.

 

[Tawnos]

It’s more likely that there’s a time problem caused by the spore drive. The moment is a repetition.

 

[Osprey]

All of what we've seen so far might not be mirror universe, but we do know for a fact that there is going to be mirror universe episodes. It was reported that in the original outline of the show the mirror universe played a significant role.

In that case, it was almost certainly and not so subtly alluded to at the end there.

It's been awhile since I watched, but in Enterprise some sort of the genetic alterations the Klingons went through are the explanation they give for why the Klingons look different in The Original Series. Somehow I think they're going to tie that into this Discovery.

It was dumb for Enterprise to bother explaining it, IMO, and just as dumb for Discovery to treat that explanation as canon. Worse, though, is that Discovery has made the Klingons look far more alien than they've ever looked before, making the genetic experimentation explanation even dumber than it originally was. It's not just smooth forehead vs wrinkled forehead anymore, but completely human-looking vs completely alien-looking. Finally, even if they were originally alien-looking and started looking more like humans around the time of Enterprise, why do they look completely alien just 10 years before looking completely human in TOS? It makes no sense. They're just making things worse.

 

[Tawnos]

That relationship came out of nowhere.

2 episodes ago he lost his research partner and husband (partner? Wasn't clear that I recall), now it seems like he's been with the doctor for some time. It's only been a month since the Glenn was trashed, he sure grieved and hooked up quick.

Last week I was betting on an Event Horizon type plot with the spore drive. Stamets seems like a strong candidate for going nuts now.

The research partner on the Glenn was his best friend I thought. Edit: double checked. The guy on the Glenn says to Stanmets, “you’re one of my oldest friends. We’ve been working on this for 12 years.”

I think their relationship is secret at the moment, thus the false antagonism in public.

 

[wej20]

That relationship came out of nowhere.

2 episodes ago he lost his research partner and husband (partner? Wasn't clear that I recall), now it seems like he's been with the doctor for some time. It's only been a month since the Glenn was trashed, he sure grieved and hooked up quick.

Last week I was betting on an Event Horizon type plot with the spore drive. Stamets seems like a strong candidate for going nuts now.

Pretty sure his Research Partner was a best friend rather than partner.

 

[Guardian17]

So the female Klingon has no trouble speaking an alien language, English, in a normal manner.

 

[tacogeoff]

Great episode, left me feeling entertained. The klingons have been done terribly but otherwise I'm enjoying it.

I can understand some of the criticism in this forum but some of it just sounds like complaining for the sake of complaining. Enjoy it for what it is, as it's not going to change.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

Great episode, left me feeling entertained. The klingons have been done terribly but otherwise I'm enjoying it.

I can understand some of the criticism in this forum but some of it just sounds like complaining for the sake of complaining. Enjoy it for what it is, as it's not going to change.

I thought this was the best episodes for the Klingons since the series started. The scenes seemed to flow better rather than come to a screeching halt.

 

[tacogeoff]

I thought this was the best episodes for the Klingons since the series started. The scenes seemed to flow better rather than come to a screeching halt.

I agree with that. They just don't seem natural enough for me yet. The torture scene made me cringe a bit. I just haven't warmed up to this version of them. I'm sure it will grow on me.

 

[NyQuil]

I thought that was really good, although I’m curious as to what either of you mean by “it’s trying to be shocking.”

The torture was over-the-top violent.

The gratuitous use of the F-word, as if to say, "Hey, we use the F-word, aren't we edgy ?!!", whereas in Star Trek IV it was pretty clear that "colourful metaphors" had gone out of fashion.

I don't mind an "F-word" BTW, it just seemed thrown in for no real reason.

As I've said earlier, I don't mind the look, the visuals and the general tone of the show.

The characters are still a bit clunky.

I was extremely worried that the First Officer was going to run a character assessment of Burnham in comparison to all the great starship Captains and determine that she has the best personality of any Captain in history. Thank god they held back from that.

 

[Cloned]

This was the most compelling episode so far. I was actually engaged in it. It had more character stuff.

If I'm judging it as Star Trek it fails miserably because it's not Star Trek, but looking at this on its own I think I somewhat enjoyed it despite its flaws.

First decent episode IMO. I give it a C+.

What exactly does this mean?

"It's decent/good TV but it doesn't feel Trek enough to me so I won't accept it?"

This is getting to the same point as when SW fans hated Rogue One because it isn't "real Star Wars."

 

[Tawnos]

The torture was over-the-top violent.

The gratuitous use of the F-word, as if to say, "Hey, we use the F-word, aren't we edgy ?!!", whereas in Star Trek IV it was pretty clear that "colourful metaphors" had gone out of fashion.

I don't mind an "F-word" BTW, it just seemed thrown in for no real reason.

As I've said earlier, I don't mind the look, the visuals and the general tone of the show.

The characters are still a bit clunky.

I was extremely worried that the First Officer was going to run a character assessment of Burnham in comparison to all the great starship Captains and determine that she has the best personality of any Captain in history. Thank god they held back from that.

Torture like that IS over the top violent.

I also thought the cursing was the most natural thing the show has done yet. People talk like that all the time.

 

[Osprey]

The torture was over-the-top violent.

It was odd how it was violent yet completely lacking in tension. It was nothing like violence in Game of Thrones, which really heightens the drama and the fear of what's about to happen, making it anything but gratuitous.

The gratuitous use of the F-word, as if to say, "Hey, we use the F-word, aren't we edgy ?!!", whereas in Star Trek IV it was pretty clear that "colourful metaphors" had gone out of fashion.

I agree; that exchange was really lame. It also came from the one person (Tilly) least likely to blurt out a swear, making it funnier, perhaps, but far less believable and more contrived.

What exactly does this mean?

"It's decent/good TV but it doesn't feel Trek enough to me so I won't accept it?"

This is getting to the same point as when SW fans hated Rogue One because it isn't "real Star Wars."

I think that his meaning was pretty clear. It seems like you're trying to read between the lines to find an agenda so that you can express your own, but I'm not sure why he should have to defend himself when "I won't accept it" is what you said, not him.

So far, those of us who have been critical have been critical of the show, not of those of you who like it. I'm not sure that you appreciate that we could be equally intolerant of and challenging toward your defense of the show if we wanted.

 

[NyQuil]

This is how you do torture:



Love David Warner in everything. (e.g. Jon Irenicus, Gorkon, etc.)

 

[RobBrown4PM]

I can't find it, but Garaks torture of Odo was hard to watch.

So was Garaks torture of himself.

The Cardassians were the embodiment of torture

 

[Tawnos]

This is how you do torture:



Love David Warner in everything. (e.g. Jon Irenicus, Gorkon, etc.)

Klingons aren’t about subtlety. They’re about brute force. The way they torture is likely to be different from the Cardassians. More straight forward. Hammers.

 

[NyQuil]

Klingons aren’t about subtlety. They’re about brute force. The way they torture is likely to be different from the Cardassians. More straight forward. Hammers.

I guess.

I just found myself bored with the torture scenes. They were perfunctory. Not an opportunity to really delve into the character of Lorca. He's like the Timothy Dalton of Starship captains.

I actually found the drive storyline more interesting.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

Torture like that IS over the top violent.

I also thought the cursing was the most natural thing the show has done yet. People talk like that all the time.

I didn't find the cursing gratuitous. Gratuitous would be swearing every other word, like I do hear in the real world. What I saw last night was two nerds making a scientific breakthrough and celebrating casually. I thought that scene was the most real thing that has come out of this series so far, because it gave this series much needed personality.

 

[Tawnos]

I guess.

I just found myself bored with the torture scenes. They were perfunctory. Not an opportunity to really delve into the character of Lorca. He's like the Timothy Dalton of Starship captains.

I actually found the drive storyline more interesting.

Yeah honestly the torture scenes didn’t serve to make me feel like Lorca was any more in danger than I already did, given that he was already captive on a Klingon ship. His personal torture scene was about him learning who he could trust in that cell, which was pretty tricky. They didn’t get deep with anything, but it did show the way his mind works in a certain way.