Speculation: Stamkos Ask from Toronto was 14M AAV

[DFC]

Why would he wait until June 30th to sign with Tampa if it is all sunshine and rainbows? And why would Stammer bother to meet with the Leafs and other teams?

Because until he could meet with other teams, he couldn't use other teams' offers as leverage. It didn't work for him, and he stayed. If someone had blown him away with an offer, he'd likely have taken it. My guess is teams have good scouts, and no one wanted to give him Kopitar money.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

This thread is just full of people subtly slamming the Leafs, it's quite comical.

Never change, HF.

Epitome of a certain subset of Leafs fans.

"Everybody hates us..."

 

[The Macho King]

Because until he could meet with other teams, he couldn't use other teams' offers as leverage. It didn't work for him, and he stayed. If someone had blown him away with an offer, he'd likely have taken it. My guess is teams have good scouts, and no one wanted to give him Kopitar money.

Eh - I think Kopitar money was possible. I think he was looking for Toews/Kane or more and wasn't finding it.

 

[LeafFever]

Epitome of a certain subset of Leafs fans.

"Everybody hates us..."

But everyone does hate us, lol. How can you deny it.

 

[LeafFever]

Because until he could meet with other teams, he couldn't use other teams' offers as leverage. It didn't work for him, and he stayed. If someone had blown him away with an offer, he'd likely have taken it. My guess is teams have good scouts, and no one wanted to give him Kopitar money.

But no one else is doing this.

 

[Strangelove]

But everyone does hate us, lol. How can you deny it.

Including Stamkos?

 

[LeafFever]

Including Stamkos?

No. He went to a meeting with the Leafs. The fruit bowl was impressive.

 

[oilerbear]

Seems like it's a good thing they passed up on him? Quite the difference in contract from what he signed

#1 most popular job in North America.
In-home nurse.

#1 worst job in North America:
poultry Processor:
Killing chickens; Cleaning their crap.
5 times the turn over of other worst jobs.



How Stamkos viewed his options!
Playing in Tampa: 8.5M
home and caring for the team.

Playing in Toronto: 14M
going to have to pay me big to deal with this S................

 

[PG Canuck]

Anymore talk about Kessel, Phaneuf, and/or Leafs fans thoughts in past years, will be threadbanned. Enough is enough. This thread is about Steven Stamkos' rumoured ask from Toronto in Free Agency.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

I wonder what his ask from other teams (Detroit/San Jose) was?

 

[oilerbear]

Yup. They will continue to find ways to not make Toronto look like losers.

They just didn't get him because they were not an attractive enough option for Stamkos, but of course, that might turn out to be good for them long term with the youth movement.

Before Shanahan took over the leafs.
April 2014:
Leafs league rank:
11-12 #25
12-13 #10
13-14 #22
-------------- Shanahan
14-15 #27
toronto was 21-16-3 in sixth in EC when shanahan picked a coach to replace Carlyle.
One of Assistants he replaced carlyle assistants with>
the team went 9-28-5
the 3 years before Kessel was #2 Fwd in Pts and #4 forward in Goals.
Shanahan,s new coach single handed destroyed Kessels value.
the next year with a new team vessel and Murray lead the pens to the cup!
continued to be one of 13 forwards generating 24+ G pace in 5 straight years.

15-16 #30
the 124 games with Shanahan coaches.
38-70-16 .371

Shanahan is making a huge difference.
09-10 27-47-8 62 pt .378
10-11 25-45-12 62 pt .378
11-12 32-40 -10 74 pt .451
12-13 19-22-7 45 pt .469

taking the #6 team in EC and making them last.
His performance is on a historic level.

You win cups with
1. HSCA D system coach
Babcock - Yes

2. top 10 HSCA Save% goalie
Bernier - Yes #10 .874
Oh wait he traded him to anahiem for a 5th round pick.
Bernier is better than they had before.
Leave average is .871
#18 Gibson .870
#26 Andersson .862
OH wait Shanahan traded
the Pit #1 from Kessel trade and 2nd.
Then signed the barely starter/should be a back-up to 5yrs @ 5M


3. 3+ top 60 HSCA D.
Corrado worst in league.
Rielly bottom 5
Gardener bottom 15

4. 2 1st line (top 90 fwd) or 3 EVG/EVP (top 150) fwd lines
Last 2 seasons:
JVR #108 EVG/60; #166 EVP/60
Lupul #142 EVG/60
komarov #155 EVP/60: #169 EVG/60
-------------------------------------------- this is reset point
Kadri #234 EVP/60; #177 EVG/60
Bozak #234 EVP/60; #298 .44 EVG/60
Holland #238 EVP/60; #227 EVG/60
Michalek #238 EVP/60

5. +ve
Martin #327 EVp/60.

Stamkos looked at these brutal moves and said Chicken coup!

 

[Kelly]

Before Shanahan took over the leafs.
April 2014:
Leafs league rank:
11-12 #25
12-13 #10
13-14 #22
-------------- Shanahan
14-15 #27
toronto was 21-16-3 in sixth in EC when shanahan picked a coach to replace Carlyle.
One of Assistants he replaced carlyle assistants with>
the team went 9-28-5
the 3 years before Kessel was #2 Fwd in Pts and #4 forward in Goals.
Shanahan,s new coach single handed destroyed Kessels value.
the next year with a new team vessel and Murray lead the pens to the cup!
continued to be one of 13 forwards generating 24+ G pace in 5 straight years.

15-16 #30
the 124 games with Shanahan coaches.
38-70-16 .371

Shanahan is making a huge difference.
09-10 27-47-8 62 pt .378
10-11 25-45-12 62 pt .378
11-12 32-40 -10 74 pt .451
12-13 19-22-7 45 pt .469

taking the #6 team in EC and making them last.
His performance is on a historic level.

You win cups with
1. HSCA D system coach
Babcock - Yes

2. top 10 HSCA Save% goalie
Bernier - Yes #10 .874
Oh wait he traded him to anahiem for a 5th round pick.
Bernier is better than they had before.
Leave average is .871
#18 Gibson .870
#26 Andersson .862
OH wait Shanahan traded
the Pit #1 from Kessel trade and 2nd.
Then signed the barely starter/should be a back-up to 5yrs @ 5M.

Stamkos looked at these brutal moves and said Chicken coup!

What's that? A team having a losing record when they are starting a new rebuild?

Also trading Bernier was absolutely the right move, he was awful.

 

[LeafFever]

Before Shanahan took over the leafs.
April 2014:
Leafs league rank:
11-12 #25
12-13 #10
13-14 #22
-------------- Shanahan
14-15 #27
toronto was 21-16-3 in sixth in EC when shanahan picked a coach to replace Carlyle.
One of Assistants he replaced carlyle assistants with>
the team went 9-28-5
the 3 years before Kessel was #2 Fwd in Pts and #4 forward in Goals.
Shanahan,s new coach single handed destroyed Kessels value.
the next year with a new team vessel and Murray lead the pens to the cup!
continued to be one of 13 forwards generating 24+ G pace in 5 straight years.

15-16 #30
the 124 games with Shanahan coaches.
38-70-16 .371

Shanahan is making a huge difference.
09-10 27-47-8 62 pt .378
10-11 25-45-12 62 pt .378
11-12 32-40 -10 74 pt .451
12-13 19-22-7 45 pt .469

taking the #6 team in EC and making them last.
His performance is on a historic level.

You win cups with
1. HSCA D system coach
Babcock - Yes

2. top 10 HSCA Save% goalie
Bernier - Yes #10 .874
Oh wait he traded him to anahiem for a 5th round pick.
Bernier is better than they had before.
Leave average is .871
#18 Gibson .870
#26 Andersson .862
OH wait Shanahan traded
the Pit #1 from Kessel trade and 2nd.
Then signed the barely starter/should be a back-up to 5yrs @ 5M.

Stamkos looked at these brutal moves and said Chicken coup!

You're actually bringing up stats to prove Shanahan has done a bad job? LOL. He purged the team and made them bad on purpose.
Here's another fact" When Shanahan took over, the Leafs were ranked 25th-30th in prospects for years. They are the consensus #1 prospect pool in the entire NHL. It's all about the future and the Leafs have a great one.
And just to point out, they were improved under Babcock last year than in 2014-2015;.

Are you actually trying to say Bernier is better than Anderson? LOL. You're ignoring every important stat. Benrier was good for one thing" If he did not suck as badly as he did in October and November, there is no Auston Matthews. He was the tank commander and our future is better because of it. You cherry picking worthiless stats because Andersen had more wins, Save %, GAA than Bernier is hilarious. You're using HSCA stats because you can't possibly use any other stats. LOL.


Your argument is just terrible. What team puts up improved numbers when they blow up the team to rebuild? Can you give me 1 example in the history of the NHL? Didn't think so.

 

[LeafFever]

I wonder what his ask from other teams (Detroit/San Jose) was?

heard he cancelled the Detroit meeting and never bothered.
And BTW, TSN (The Toronto Sports Network) stated Detroit was the front runners for him. forgotten by all of you.

 

[oilerbear]

What's that? A team having a losing record when they are starting a new rebuild?

Also trading Bernier was absolutely the right move, he was awful.

Having created the concept of HSCA area.
1. from watching the flip flon bombers of Clarke; leach and Stougton.
there violence was Drive the net and defend the net.

2. look at ranges shot quality curves.
the amplitude showed most goals tight to the net.

I determined aprox. 75% of goals came from 10.5 shots in the 17% of Ozone in front of the net.
I called the High scoring chance area.
HSCA is were above league average shots come from. 8.5 to 25%
LSCA is were 19.5 shpts get 25% of the goals. less than 8.5%

In the HSCA shots vary from top 10 7.5 HSCA shots to Bottom 10 13.5+ HSCA shots.
that is a variance of 6/13.5 a 44.4% variance.

Bernier: .874

he will have 3 top 15 HSCA d
Manson 7.38 HSCA shots
7.38 X (1.000-.872) = .94 GA/60
Lindholm 7.58 HSCA Shots
7.58 X (.128) = .97 GA/60
Vatanen 7.68 HSCA shots
7.68 X (.128) = .98 GA/60

that is elite team GA results

Bernier with toronto's worst D.
Corrado 14.36
14.36 X (.128) = 1.84 GA/60
Rielly 13.65
13.65 X .128 = 1.75 GA/60
Gardner 12.87
12.87 X .128 = 1.65 GA/60

Yeah!
Bernier was Brutal!

You want to see brutal!

Andersson .862
Corrado
14.36 X (1.000 - .862) = 1.98 GA/60
Rielly
13.65 X (.138) = 1.88 GA/60
Gardner
12.87 X (.138) = 1.78 GA/60

A 1st and 2nd and 5M for 5.

What is most interesting is Tmac's close space drill is exactly what you want to develop puck fight and HSCA play and shooting.

 

[oilerbear]

heard he cancelled the Detroit meeting and never bothered.
And BTW, TSN (The Toronto Sports Network) stated Detroit was the front runners for him. forgotten by all of you.

TSN are they not part owners of the leafs?

Tend not to listen to media that has not seen winning hockey.
the HHOF recognizes how awful the leafs org has been.

GA affect:
HSCA 75% of goals
7.5 to 13.5 shots - 6 shot variance
6/13.5 = .4444
.4444 X .75 = potential 33.3% variance in total GA against.
Hsca is almost exclusively defended by DMen.
Except for the top of the HSCA were PK systems are designed to have forwards collapse on the 8.5 to 11.0% shot area.

LSCA 25% of goals
17.5 to 21.5 Shots - 4 shot variance
4/21.5 = .1861
.1861 X .25 = Potential 4.7% total Goal variance.
Largely defended by Forwards.

GF Affect:

of the top 300 Even goal scorers
273 Are forwards and 27 Are Dmen
93.8% of the EVG come from Forwards.
so it is largely dependent on a teams top 9 Forwards and #1 D
Men 2-6 and forwards 10-14 generate goals at the same rate.
so all the GF gDiffrence is from top 9 Forwards.
Ie forwards drive Even offence.

All you want your D to do well is Pass the D.... Puck to the forwards.
Like Price said. Quick transition read and pass to forwards who attack the ozone quickly.
Not letting opposition toast up preventing zone entry and HSCA penetration.

PP Goal affect:
Of the top 150 PP goal scorers 92 % is scored from 136 Forwards.
of he 14 Dmen only 5 have shown a PPG/60 rate and SH% to justify shifting to defend there shot.
OEL; Weber; Faulk; Burns.
Davidson was given a limited min chance in EDm at the end.
Showed that same affect.

Weber:18.6 EVTOI
#3 HSC AD
7.18 HSCA Shots
Price #1 HSCA Save goalie .889
7.18 x (1.000 - .889) = .80 GA/60

Subban 18.5 EVTOI
Bottom 60 HSCA d
11.97 X (.111) = 1.33GA/60

18.5/60 = 30.83%
30.83% X 82 = 25.28 60 minute segments.

weber 25.28 X .80 = 20.23 EVGA
Subban 25.28 X 1.33 = 33.63 EVGA/60

Forwards nee to score 13 more even goals i the ice with subban to break even with webers. defence. .53 EVGF/60 more.

 

[LeafFever]

TSN are they not part owners of the leafs?

Tend not to listen to media that has not seen winning hockey.
the HHOF recognizes how awful the leafs org has been.

GA affect:
HSCA 75% of goals
7.5 to 13.5 shots - 6 shot variance
6/13.5 = .4444
.4444 X .75 = potential 33.3% variance in total GA against.
Hsca is almost exclusively defended by DMen.
Except for the top of the HSCA were PK systems are designed to have forwards collapse on the 8.5 to 11.0% shot area.

LSCA 25% of goals
17.5 to 21.5 Shots - 4 shot variance
4/21.5 = .1861
.1861 X .25 = Potential 4.7% total Goal variance.
Largely defended by Forwards.

GF Affect:

of the top 300 Even goal scorers
273 Are forwards and 27 Are Dmen
93.8% of the EVG come from Forwards.
so it is largely dependent on a teams top 9 Forwards and #1 D
Men 2-6 and forwards 10-14 generate goals at the same rate.
so all the GF gDiffrence is from top 9 Forwards.
Ie forwards drive Even offence.

All you want your D to do well is Pass the D.... Puck to the forwards.
Like Price said. Quick transition read and pass to forwards who attack the ozone quickly.
Not letting opposition toast up preventing zone entry and HSCA penetration.

PP Goal affect:
Of the top 150 PP goal scorers 92 % is scored from 136 Forwards.
of he 14 Dmen only 5 have shown a PPG/60 rate and SH% to justify shifting to defend there shot.
OEL; Weber; Faulk; Burns.
Davidson was given a limited min chance in EDm at the end.
Showed that same affect.

Weber:18.6 EVTOI
#3 HSC AD
7.18 HSCA Shots
Price #1 HSCA Save goalie .889
7.18 x (1.000 - .889) = .80 GA/60

Subban 18.5 EVTOI
Bottom 60 HSCA d
11.97 X (.111) = 1.33GA/60

18.5/60 = 30.83%
30.83% X 82 = 25.28 60 minute segments.

weber 25.28 X .80 = 20.23 EVGA
Subban 25.28 X 1.33 = 33.63 EVGA/60

Forwards nee to score 13 more even goals i the ice with subban to break even with webers. defence. .53 EVGF/60 more.

You've told us Bernier was better than Andersen last season. That's all we need to know.
And TSN has seen winning hockey. They've covered Stanley cups.
Leafs were better last season than in 2014-15 despite trading the best players away and tanking'. Fact.
These are Frederek Andersen's stats from 2015-16':
W
22
L
9
SO
3
GAA
2.30
SV%
.919

He had more win than any goalie in the second half of the season. But Bernier was better?
Stop it. It's embarrassing.

 

[DFC]

But no one else is doing this.

No one else had the perceived starpower that Stamkos had as a UFA. The conversation window is relatively new. Stamkos was a player who's value varied wildly depending on whose opinion you were asking. He himself probably had no idea what kind of offers he was going to get. I'm sure 8.5 felt low though.

 

[DFC]

Before Shanahan took over the leafs.
April 2014:
Leafs league rank:
11-12 #25
12-13 #10
13-14 #22
-------------- Shanahan
14-15 #27
toronto was 21-16-3 in sixth in EC when shanahan picked a coach to replace Carlyle.
One of Assistants he replaced carlyle assistants with>
the team went 9-28-5
the 3 years before Kessel was #2 Fwd in Pts and #4 forward in Goals.
Shanahan,s new coach single handed destroyed Kessels value.
the next year with a new team vessel and Murray lead the pens to the cup!
continued to be one of 13 forwards generating 24+ G pace in 5 straight years.

15-16 #30
the 124 games with Shanahan coaches.
38-70-16 .371

Shanahan is making a huge difference.
09-10 27-47-8 62 pt .378
10-11 25-45-12 62 pt .378
11-12 32-40 -10 74 pt .451
12-13 19-22-7 45 pt .469

taking the #6 team in EC and making them last.
His performance is on a historic level.

You win cups with
1. HSCA D system coach
Babcock - Yes

2. top 10 HSCA Save% goalie
Bernier - Yes #10 .874
Oh wait he traded him to anahiem for a 5th round pick.
Bernier is better than they had before.
Leave average is .871
#18 Gibson .870
#26 Andersson .862
OH wait Shanahan traded
the Pit #1 from Kessel trade and 2nd.
Then signed the barely starter/should be a back-up to 5yrs @ 5M


3. 3+ top 60 HSCA D.
Corrado worst in league.
Rielly bottom 5
Gardener bottom 15

4. 2 1st line (top 90 fwd) or 3 EVG/EVP (top 150) fwd lines
Last 2 seasons:
JVR #108 EVG/60; #166 EVP/60
Lupul #142 EVG/60
komarov #155 EVP/60: #169 EVG/60
-------------------------------------------- this is reset point
Kadri #234 EVP/60; #177 EVG/60
Bozak #234 EVP/60; #298 .44 EVG/60
Holland #238 EVP/60; #227 EVG/60
Michalek #238 EVP/60

5. +ve
Martin #327 EVp/60.

Stamkos looked at these brutal moves and said Chicken coup!

If you don't understand why teams want to get worse so they can get better, I don't know what to tell you. TB went through a similar phase. I say this as a TB fan. You have to grow your team, rather than just throwing them on the ice.

The Leafs are about 3-4 years behind where TB is now. That likely had a lot to do with his decision. But (and again, I'm a TB fan) it's hard not to be impressed by the job Shanahan has done. Lots of building blocks in place.

 

[5 Hole]

Hometown discount.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Bravo!

 

[Halla]

Before Shanahan took over the leafs.
April 2014:
Leafs league rank:
11-12 #25
12-13 #10
13-14 #22
-------------- Shanahan
14-15 #27
toronto was 21-16-3 in sixth in EC when shanahan picked a coach to replace Carlyle.
One of Assistants he replaced carlyle assistants with>
the team went 9-28-5
the 3 years before Kessel was #2 Fwd in Pts and #4 forward in Goals.
Shanahan,s new coach single handed destroyed Kessels value.
the next year with a new team vessel and Murray lead the pens to the cup!
continued to be one of 13 forwards generating 24+ G pace in 5 straight years.

15-16 #30
the 124 games with Shanahan coaches.
38-70-16 .371

Shanahan is making a huge difference.
09-10 27-47-8 62 pt .378
10-11 25-45-12 62 pt .378
11-12 32-40 -10 74 pt .451
12-13 19-22-7 45 pt .469

taking the #6 team in EC and making them last.
His performance is on a historic level.

You win cups with
1. HSCA D system coach
Babcock - Yes

2. top 10 HSCA Save% goalie
Bernier - Yes #10 .874
Oh wait he traded him to anahiem for a 5th round pick.
Bernier is better than they had before.
Leave average is .871
#18 Gibson .870
#26 Andersson .862
OH wait Shanahan traded
the Pit #1 from Kessel trade and 2nd.
Then signed the barely starter/should be a back-up to 5yrs @ 5M


3. 3+ top 60 HSCA D.
Corrado worst in league.
Rielly bottom 5
Gardener bottom 15

4. 2 1st line (top 90 fwd) or 3 EVG/EVP (top 150) fwd lines
Last 2 seasons:
JVR #108 EVG/60; #166 EVP/60
Lupul #142 EVG/60
komarov #155 EVP/60: #169 EVG/60
-------------------------------------------- this is reset point
Kadri #234 EVP/60; #177 EVG/60
Bozak #234 EVP/60; #298 .44 EVG/60
Holland #238 EVP/60; #227 EVG/60
Michalek #238 EVP/60

5. +ve
Martin #327 EVp/60.

Stamkos looked at these brutal moves and said Chicken coup!

dont think ive ever seen a comment cherry pick as much as this. HSCA? what a joke!
hmm didnt see anything in there about taking a 20th-25th ranked prospect base and turning it into the best in the league. not much about purging massive contracts like Kessel,Phaneuf, and Clarkson (still hard to believe)

are you seriously trying to argue shanahan has done a bad job based on the leafs record? you wont find many leafs fans who are unhappy with the way things have gone lately, but haters gonna hate i guess

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

I love how people are eating this up and swallowing it whole; Ie Posters parroting this as fact lol. Its ridiculous non substantiated speculation. Give your head a shake people, 14 million?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

TSN are they not part owners of the leafs?

Tend not to listen to media that has not seen winning hockey.
the HHOF recognizes how awful the leafs org has been.

GA affect:
HSCA 75% of goals
7.5 to 13.5 shots - 6 shot variance
6/13.5 = .4444
.4444 X .75 = potential 33.3% variance in total GA against.
Hsca is almost exclusively defended by DMen.
Except for the top of the HSCA were PK systems are designed to have forwards collapse on the 8.5 to 11.0% shot area.

LSCA 25% of goals
17.5 to 21.5 Shots - 4 shot variance
4/21.5 = .1861
.1861 X .25 = Potential 4.7% total Goal variance.
Largely defended by Forwards.

GF Affect:

of the top 300 Even goal scorers
273 Are forwards and 27 Are Dmen
93.8% of the EVG come from Forwards.
so it is largely dependent on a teams top 9 Forwards and #1 D
Men 2-6 and forwards 10-14 generate goals at the same rate.
so all the GF gDiffrence is from top 9 Forwards.
Ie forwards drive Even offence.

All you want your D to do well is Pass the D.... Puck to the forwards.
Like Price said. Quick transition read and pass to forwards who attack the ozone quickly.
Not letting opposition toast up preventing zone entry and HSCA penetration.

PP Goal affect:
Of the top 150 PP goal scorers 92 % is scored from 136 Forwards.
of he 14 Dmen only 5 have shown a PPG/60 rate and SH% to justify shifting to defend there shot.
OEL; Weber; Faulk; Burns.
Davidson was given a limited min chance in EDm at the end.
Showed that same affect.

Weber:18.6 EVTOI
#3 HSC AD
7.18 HSCA Shots
Price #1 HSCA Save goalie .889
7.18 x (1.000 - .889) = .80 GA/60

Subban 18.5 EVTOI
Bottom 60 HSCA d
11.97 X (.111) = 1.33GA/60

18.5/60 = 30.83%
30.83% X 82 = 25.28 60 minute segments.

weber 25.28 X .80 = 20.23 EVGA
Subban 25.28 X 1.33 = 33.63 EVGA/60

Forwards nee to score 13 more even goals i the ice with subban to break even with webers. defence. .53 EVGF/60 more.

A stat is a tool. Your stat is a screwdriver and this conversation needs a hammer.

This isn't a thread about your goalie stat, it's about Stamkos' ask. If that reason is because of the direction this team is going, your goalie stat isn't the tool needed to show it.

So consider putting your long winded posts about your stat in a thread where people will appreciate it.

 

[tony d]

14 million, if that's what stamkos was asking for no wonder he didn't sign with Toronto.

 

[hawksrule]

It's certainly plausible, even likely, that he demanded a huge premium to go to a perennial last place non-contender. All the more so to take on the extra baggage that's inherent in being the Leafs biggest name. The leafs would have been crazy to pay that, but I can see where he was coming from.