Value of: St. Louis getting its first round pick from Buffalo

[VainGretzky]

Ryan O'Reilly was and is better than Eichel and at the time of the trade Dahlin hadn't even taken the ice yet. As of the past few years it's been ROR keeping Buffalo from being a joke

Ryan O'Reilly is a me 1st player , held AVS hostage pouted in Buffalo now in St,louis not helping them either will he pout again demanding to be traded to another team . Teams have sure seen some brutal seasons with him as a pivitol player. Sabres are doing fine without him

 

[Weiss1604]

Buffali after picking top 10 the past 6 drafts was going to break through and turn it around.

For whatever reason it didn’t happen in 16/17 a year after Eichel had a season under his belt.

They had an 81 pt season so you think they take another step but they regressed. The thing they were missing was confidence.

St. Louis is older. They are younger on D with 4 25 or younger. They are olde at forward and doesn’t have much in their system in forwards.

The other teams in their division are also stronger than them now and I see it being that way next season.

Buffalo was in this situation before in 2014 when they traded vanes to the islanders for their 1st in 2014 top 10 protected which it became in 2014 thus a 2015 unprotected. They made some moves then made playoffs and it was at 21 in 2015 draft.

Islanders had a yong core of players in their mud 29s in a weaker division.

That's the beauty of sport though isn't it , we don't really know what's going to happen . I must pick up on one incorrect point you made though . we are not old at forward , far from it . You must bear in mind we were talking about next season not this . We will have 3 forwards over 30 Steen , Bozak & Perron unless one or more are moved . Whilst you may not rate Kyrou , Bokk , Kostin & Rob Thomas others do , personally i think all will be regular NHL'S & 3 in the top 6 , i may be wrong though .
In the end as with everything else , time will tell.

 

[Genny Screamer]

Alex Nylander
Sabres 2019 1st
Blues 2020 1st

for

Pietrangelo

Easy no from Sabres

 

[Dbrownss]

Eichel is criminally underrated & though i love O'Reilly on my Blues he is definitely not superior to the outstanding talent that Jack Eichel has in abundance . Buffalo are not a joke either & if that guy is a Blues fan then i apologize on behalf of Blues fans because we can all disagree & be cordial about at the same time . It's sport at the end of the day & rudeness & insults shouldn't be tolerated .

While Orielly is no better then Eichel, dont apologize. Blues fans have been dealin with some asshattery from some Buffalo fans...hell even invading the Blues board. The taste of not being one of the worst teams in the league after almost a decade you would think would lead to being humble...but this is the internet and we shouldn't expect any less.

Now....again. The Blues are not rebuilding. They arent going scorched earth. That is crap peddled by the Canadian media. Yes the Blues are listening to calls on all players. They are not dumping any high end guys for whatever they can get. The Blues need to get their coaching in order before any massive roster changes.


Buffalo fans should understand why some Blues fans may be touchy....you've dealt with the non stop poaching of players for years. Ignore the fact Armstrong poached O'rielly .


The older players in Stl are not the core. Steen and Bozak are the ones that stick out and while it would be nice to get rid of them....they arent crippling the roster. The Blues best players need to play up to their potential.

 

[Weiss1604]

While Orielly is no better then Eichel, dont apologize. Blues fans have been dealin with some asshattery from some Buffalo fans...hell even invading the Blues board. The taste of not being one of the worst teams in the league after almost a decade you would think would lead to being humble...but this is the internet and we shouldn't expect any less.

Now....again. The Blues are not rebuilding. They arent going scorched earth. That is crap peddled by the Canadian media. Yes the Blues are listening to calls on all players. They are not dumping any high end guys for whatever they can get. The Blues need to get their coaching in order before any massive roster changes.


Buffalo fans should understand why some Blues fans may be touchy....you've dealt with the non stop poaching of players for years. Ignore the fact Armstrong poached O'rielly .


The older players in Stl are not the core. Steen and Bozak are the ones that stick out and while it would be nice to get rid of them....they arent crippling the roster. The Blues best players need to play up to their potential.

I wasn't aware of that having been away from HB for 8 months , i certainly don't want to converse with rude , arrogant Wankers , i'll leave this thread now & not return in that case , thanks for the warning . Quite afew are certainly trying to be heard with limited knowledge of the sport which i do find amusing , you would think they would at least fact check before posting but it is what it is , you can't teach intelligence unfortunately . I'm guessing that is why Holy Jumpin ( apologies HJ ) was tad short with them earlier , makes sense now .

 

[Djp]

That's the beauty of sport though isn't it , we don't really know what's going to happen . I must pick up on one incorrect point you made though . we are not old at forward , far from it . You must bear in mind we were talking about next season not this . We will have 3 forwards over 30 Steen , Bozak & Perron unless one or more are moved . Whilst you may not rate Kyrou , Bokk , Kostin & Rob Thomas others do , personally i think all will be regular NHL'S & 3 in the top 6 , i may be wrong though .
In the end as with everything else , time will tell.

With the 4 young p,Ayers you mentioned they were all drafted 20-40. Given historical trends, p,Ayers drafted there are well under 50% of being anything having a 200 game nhl career, far lower bring top 6 forwards.

People in here with all teams prospects think all their young players will be Star pkayers. It just doesn’t happen.

A couple of these players might be good but Not next year. It’s rare to see a low 1st round pick or later emerge as something significant in their first full season.

Thus takes time.

The fact is St. Louis have been hurt by their trades of 1st round picks over the past 7 years. 11, 13, 15, 18, 19/20 1sts got traded before the draft. 16 1st player was traded away. They got some 1st back in trading statsny and Shattenkirk.

Armstrong made the trade fir Ireilly because he felt he had a clouding window with most of their team being 27 and older and they had experience young Dmen. He wants to win before 2021. He needs to do more and thus could lead to him trading players away and doing a short retool.

The other problem is in their division where only 3 teams are certain to make the pkayoffs abd 2 are clearly better even after changes mage in St. Louis. 3 other teams are still better than them as things stand now. These teams can do changes to next season.

 

[bluetuned]

The fact is St. Louis have been hurt by their trades of 1st round picks over the past 7 years. 11, 13, 15, 18, 19/20 1sts got traded before the draft. 16 1st player was traded away. They got some 1st back in trading statsny and Shattenkirk.

Depending on which pick ends up with Buffalo, the Blues will have made 9 1st round picks between 2010 and 2019/2020. That's hardly gutting the future. These are the players from the picks they traded away since 2010:

Duncan Siemens (2011 1st dealt in the Erik Johnson trade)
Emile Poirier (2013 1st for Jay Bouwmeester)
Jack Roslovic (2015 1st for Ryan Miller)
Joel Farabee (2018 1st for Brayden Schenn)

These are the players from the 1st round picks they've acquired since 2010:

Vladimir Tarasenko (2010 1st for David Rundblad)
Klim Kostin (2017 1st for Ryan Reaves)
Dominik Bokk (2018 1st for Paul Stastny)

You can add Morgan Frost to the top list, but that was a pick the Blues got for the Shattenkirk rental and then flipped as part of the Schenn deal, so it was house money to some extent.

Anyway, the point is that nobody on that top list of picks traded away solves the Blues problems right now. Siemens and Poirier have never amounted to anything. Roslovic is a respectable young player, but not the sort to make any major impact for the Blues right now. Farabee and Frost are good prospects, but so are Kostin and Bokk.

What has definitely been detrimental is that the Blues have been consistently competitive for a long time, and thus they've basically only had late 1sts to work with. As you said, late 1sts are not nearly as likely to succeed as early 1sts. And what it largely comes down is that most of the best teams in the league right now struggled heavily during the last decade and got some premium picks as a result. Winnipeg has made 5 Top 10 picks since 2010. Toronto... 4. Calgary... 3. Buffalo... 6. The Avs... 5. Tampa... 3. Edmonton... 8. The Preds are a bit of an anomaly, but they hit on their sole Top 5 pick and turned it into their 1C.

The last time the Blues had a Top 10 pick was 2008 with Pietrangelo. Their two highest picks since 2010 are Schwartz and Tarasenko at 14 and 16 (and both in 2010, actually). What hurts the Blues right now the most isn't that they traded away picks. It's that they've been one of the best teams for a long time and the league is designed to make that difficult to sustain. It's the same thing that has happened with the Hawks, Kings, Rangers, Pens, etc.

 

[Djp]

Depending on which pick ends up with Buffalo, the Blues will have made 9 1st round picks between 2010 and 2019/2020. That's hardly gutting the future. These are the players from the picks they traded away since 2010:

Duncan Siemens (2011 1st dealt in the Erik Johnson trade)
Emile Poirier (2013 1st for Jay Bouwmeester)
Jack Roslovic (2015 1st for Ryan Miller)
Joel Farabee (2018 1st for Brayden Schenn)

These are the players from the 1st round picks they've acquired since 2010:

Vladimir Tarasenko (2010 1st for David Rundblad)
Klim Kostin (2017 1st for Ryan Reaves)
Dominik Bokk (2018 1st for Paul Stastny)

You can add Morgan Frost to the top list, but that was a pick the Blues got for the Shattenkirk rental and then flipped as part of the Schenn deal, so it was house money to some extent.

Anyway, the point is that nobody on that top list of picks traded away solves the Blues problems right now. Siemens and Poirier have never amounted to anything. Roslovic is a respectable young player, but not the sort to make any major impact for the Blues right now. Farabee and Frost are good prospects, but so are Kostin and Bokk.

What has definitely been detrimental is that the Blues have been consistently competitive for a long time, and thus they've basically only had late 1sts to work with. As you said, late 1sts are not nearly as likely to succeed as early 1sts. And what it largely comes down is that most of the best teams in the league right now struggled heavily during the last decade and got some premium picks as a result. Winnipeg has made 5 Top 10 picks since 2010. Toronto... 4. Calgary... 3. Buffalo... 6. The Avs... 5. Tampa... 3. Edmonton... 8. The Preds are a bit of an anomaly, but they hit on their sole Top 5 pick and turned it into their 1C.

The last time the Blues had a Top 10 pick was 2008 with Pietrangelo. Their two highest picks since 2010 are Schwartz and Tarasenko at 14 and 16 (and both in 2010, actually). What hurts the Blues right now the most isn't that they traded away picks. It's that they've been one of the best teams for a long time and the league is designed to make that difficult to sustain. It's the same thing that has happened with the Hawks, Kings, Rangers, Pens, etc.

2006-2008 step Louis had 2 top 5 picks and 9 top 35 picks. That is what launched their competitive window similar to LA and Chucago.

Nashville had top 12 in 2008-2009 and 2013-2014 and they acquired a top 12 drafted player from 2012 ( forsberg)

Chucago had 2 top 3 picks and a few other top 15
Kings had 3 top 5 and a few other top 15 picks
Washington had 3 top 5 and a few other top 15
Pittsburgh had 4 top 5 picks
Boston had 2 top 5 and 3 top 10 picks

The trend is you draft high to get elite players but you also need to draft good depth players for late 1st-2nd

You also hit on some 3rd or later picks where you get serviceable decent depth players who play mid 6 or 4th-6th dmen,

This has been an issue with Edmonton. They were too top heavy in drafting high 1st but not getting much after the 1st.

Before buffalos rebuild they had a stretch of having only 1 top5 and 1 top 6-10 picks over about 25 years. The team did well in depth drafting.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Sort of funny that my two favourite teams, Ottawa and St-Louis, both traded their 1st to go for it and it ended up blowing up in their face...