Blue Jays Discussion: Spring training! (next TV game: Sunday 1p ET/10a PT)

[Longshot]

He's got 3 strikes against him.

He's not the build of a traditional starter.
He underperformed his stats last year.
He has lots of personality.

You could argue he has a 4th one too...

I'm a little confused. Other than Griffin (who never is happy about anything the Jays do) and Zaun (who doesn't think Stroman will last because he's short). I read most media regularly. I don't really remember the media having any issues with Stroman. His recovery from his injury received many accolades and he has been praised as a "big game" pitcher.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but most of the narrative around Stroman re: last year has been: "He was coming off an injury and it was his first full season in the bigs. Ups and downs were expected."

I'm curious if there other examples of the media going after him.

 

[Discoverer]

I don't have a problem with sports media in general. The problem is you have to wade through so much **** to find the good stuff that actually has value. Some of it is obviously garbage (Simmons, for example) but some writers, like Griffin, sprinkle in just enough fact to convince people to buy into the ********.

There are lots of really good writers out there who are worth reading. Unfortunately, the majority of mainstream sports media caters to the lowest-common-denominator. You just have to find the ones that are worth paying attention to.

Does anyone have a subscription to The Athletic? I've been considering getting one. They've done a really good job of scooping up a lot of the good writers.

 

[zeke]

I follow all the writers on twitter for breaking news, and do all my own stats research in lieu of reading articles.

if a writer proves himself to be valuable on twitter i'll click his links.

but going to espn.com or tsn.ca or listening to sports talk radio? never. they aren't even trying to inform you, they're just trying to provoke you.

 

[Discoverer]

I follow all the writers on twitter for breaking news, and do all my own stats research in lieu of reading articles.

if a writer proves himself to be valuable on twitter i'll click his links.

but going to espn.com or tsn.ca or listening to sports talk radio? never. they aren't even trying to inform you, they're just trying to provoke you.

Yeah, that's basically what I mean.

Follow the ones that prove themselves worthwhile. Don't worry about the rest.

 

[katatoniak]

Did Tulo played a game so far in spring training ?

 

[Eyedea]

Visiting Dr. Andrews generally ends in tears

I appreciate this

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I'm a little confused. Other than Griffin (who never is happy about anything the Jays do) and Zaun (who doesn't think Stroman will last because he's short). I read most media regularly. I don't really remember the media having any issues with Stroman. His recovery from his injury received many accolades and he has been praised as a "big game" pitcher.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but most of the narrative around Stroman re: last year has been: "He was coming off an injury and it was his first full season in the bigs. Ups and downs were expected."

I'm curious if there other examples of the media going after him.

I watched a segment on PTS where the 4 of them literally went around in a circle and agreed with each other that "Stroman was the #5 in the rotation because he is short and he can't handle the full season....just look at last season" then went on to spout off that he somehow got worse as the season went on when that is literally the opposite of what happened.

 

[phillipmike]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/if-the-red-sox-lose-david-price/

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I'm a little confused. Other than Griffin (who never is happy about anything the Jays do) and Zaun (who doesn't think Stroman will last because he's short). I read most media regularly. I don't really remember the media having any issues with Stroman. His recovery from his injury received many accolades and he has been praised as a "big game" pitcher.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but most of the narrative around Stroman re: last year has been: "He was coming off an injury and it was his first full season in the bigs. Ups and downs were expected."

I'm curious if there other examples of the media going after him.

Bob McCown:
- Didn't think he would return in 2015
- When it became apparent he would, he didn't think he would start
- When it became apparent he would, he expressed genuine bemusement
- He didn't think he should start opening day 2016
- He thought he should've been sent down midway through 2016
- He thought Liriano should've started the Wild Card game over Stroman
- He wanted to trade Stroman for literally anything this past off season

But, to be fair, he also though Ryan Goins would push Devon Travis to the bench or outfield in May 2016, so not quite sure what to trust there.

Younger media members, like Nicholson-Smith, tend to be the ones who enjoy Stroman and who he has a good relationship with.

 

[phillipmike]

McCown has always stated that Stroman shouldnt be a starter and that he is too short. Preaches daily that he should be a reliever.

 

[Discoverer]

Bob McCown:
- Didn't think he would return in 2015
- When it became apparent he would, he didn't think he would start
- When it became apparent he would, he expressed genuine bemusement
- He didn't think he should start opening day 2016
- He thought he should've been sent down midway through 2016
- He thought Liriano should've started the Wild Card game over Stroman
- He wanted to trade Stroman for literally anything this past off season

But, to be fair, he also though Ryan Goins would push Devon Travis to the bench or outfield in May 2016, so not quite sure what to trust there.

Younger media members, like Nicholson-Smith, tend to be the ones who enjoy Stroman and who he has a good relationship with.

Guys like McCown and Griffin don't care about evidence, and that's the most frustrating thing about them. They just make up their minds based on however they feel about a player/issue, and they won't change it regardless of what evidence is placed in front of them.

Discussions about whether or not Stroman would make it back were like banging your head against the wall, and they're the perfect example of the kind of conversation you can imagine having with a guy like that.

"Stroman's season is over."
"There's a chance he could come back before the end of the season. He has six months to recover, and that's a month more than it took Gallardo to recover from the exact same injury a few years ago. Even if you factor in a couple weeks to get a few rehab starts in, he should still be able to come back sometime in mid-late September. Plus, because it's a leg injury he should be able to work on a throwing program to keep his arm in shape, so if he's able to come back he shouldn't need more than a few minor league starts to be ready for game action at the big league level."
"Nope. He's done."

 

[Neil Hamburger]

Obviously you never want to see a guy get a serious injury, but if Price is out for the season, that would be huge for the Jays.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Not sure what the timeline would be line but you have to think his chances of making the team just got much much worse.

 

[phillipmike]

I think we can put him on the DL and call someone else up in his place potentially keeping 2 guys until he returns.

 

[Discoverer]

Not sure what the timeline would be line but you have to think his chances of making the team just got much much worse.

If he's on the DL when the season starts, it could actually buy them a bit of time to figure out what they want to do. Give his spot to someone else on Opening Day, then re-evaluate the bullpen situation when he's ready to come back.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I think we can put him on the DL and call someone else up in his place potentially keeping 2 guys until he returns.

If he's on the DL when the season starts, it could actually buy them a bit of time to figure out what they want to do. Give his spot to someone else on Opening Day, then re-evaluate the bullpen situation when he's ready to come back.

Yeah I know he can be DL'd and remain with us, however I don't see the team trying to make the playoffs giving a rule 5 guy a spot immediately as he comes off the DL with only 2 spring training appearances, 1 of which was bad.

It felt like the only way he was going to make it was if he earned it, and this almost makes it impossible to do so. Even if they hang onto him into the season putting him on the DL, when he's ready to return and has some rehab games in the minors I'm not sure they give him a roster spot without any real results against big league hitters. But maybe they do, and give him 5-10 appearances as a sort of prove yourself if his minor league rehab apperances go well.

Or maybe they trade for him, so they can DL him and have him in the minors afterwards, if KC will go for that, that's an option too. KC doesn't exactly have a lot of leverage.

 

[Discoverer]

Yeah I know he can be DL'd and remain with us, however I don't see the team trying to make the playoffs giving a rule 5 guy a spot immediately as he comes off the DL with only 2 spring training appearances, 1 of which was bad.

It felt like the only way he was going to make it was if he earned it, and this almost makes it impossible to do so. Even if they hang onto him into the season putting him on the DL, when he's ready to return and has some rehab games in the minors I'm not sure they give him a roster spot without any real results against big league hitters. But maybe they do, and give him 5-10 appearances as a sort of prove yourself if his minor league rehab apperances go well.

Or maybe they trade for him, so they can DL him and have him in the minors afterwards, if KC will go for that, that's an option too. KC doesn't exactly have a lot of leverage.

Yeah, like I said, I don't think an injury settles the situation by any means, but it might buy them a bit of time to decide.

There are lots of options. It was starting to look like he was a longshot to make the pen anyway.

 

[theaub]

This is the highlight of the day

 

[phillipmike]

lol that's so cool.

Hayhurst with such a dirtybag article;

http://www.tsn.ca/price-s-injury-has-been-a-long-time-coming-1.685889

If Haygurst knew this all along then why didnt he write about it before. And such a slimy article to write when you dont know the extent of the injury by almost hoping Price is hurt because if he isnt then you look like an idiot.

 

[phillipmike]

Shapiro and Atkins really like Sparkman, i am sure they will do whatever they can to keep him for the year.

Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet reports that Blue Jays Rule 5 pick Glenn Sparkman suffered a fractured bone in his right thumb during pitchers’ fielding practice earlier today (Twitter link). There’s no timeline for his recovery just yet. As is the case with many Rule 5 picks, however, the injury could in a strange way prove advantageous for the Jays and for Sparkman. Toronto could potentially stash Sparkman on the disabled list to open the season — he’d otherwise have to break camp on the 25-man roster — and then work through a minor league rehab assignment early in the year before being considered as an option for the big league roster.

 

[Longshot]

lol that's so cool.

Hayhurst with such a dirtybag article;

http://www.tsn.ca/price-s-injury-has-been-a-long-time-coming-1.685889

If Haygurst knew this all along then why didnt he write about it before. And such a slimy article to write when you dont know the extent of the injury by almost hoping Price is hurt because if he isnt then you look like an idiot.

I don't remember the Jays using Price on short rest during the stretch drive in 2015. I know they set up the rotation to have him pitching against their main competition for for the division title, but didn't they continue to roll with Price, Stroman, Estrada, Dickey and Buerhle?

And in the playoffs he started game 1 (he had skipped his last start of the season and was on extra long rest for this game) vs. Texas and then relieved in game four (three days rest) and started game 2 and game 6 (five days rest) vs. KC.

The Jays certainly used him in high leverage situations, but I don't remember the "abuse" Hayhurst refers to.

 

[zeke]

fun day at the park for the kids today.

 

[Discoverer]

I don't remember the Jays using Price on short rest during the stretch drive in 2015. I know they set up the rotation to have him pitching against their main competition for for the division title, but didn't they continue to roll with Price, Stroman, Estrada, Dickey and Buerhle?

And in the playoffs he started game 1 (he had skipped his last start of the season and was on extra long rest for this game) vs. Texas and then relieved in game four (three days rest) and started game 2 and game 6 (five days rest) vs. KC.

The Jays certainly used him in high leverage situations, but I don't remember the "abuse" Hayhurst refers to.

Yeah, he made one relief appearance on short rest in the playoffs. That short rest also came after having 11 days of rest between his previous starts.

Hayhurst seems to be have turned into one of those "I don't care about evidence, this is just how I feel" guys we were discussing earlier. He says he throws a lot of pitches because he strikes guys out... why not actually look up the readily available pitch data and see if you're right? But you wouldn't want to do that, because you've already decided how you feel about it, and finding out that he averaged 106 pitches per regular season start with the Jays, which is perfectly normal for a pitcher of his calibre and a whole 0.25 pitches per start more than he averaged in Detroit, wouldn't help your argument, and neither would finding out that he didn't reach 100 pitches in any of his playoff appearances.

 

[Discoverer]

fun day at the park for the kids today.

It's always great to see so many of them have good games. It'll be really interesting to watch more as the competition quality starts increasing over the next couple weeks.

 

[Bad News Benning]

fun day at the park for the kids today.

I think tellez is a mid season call up after they waste 200 at bats watching smoak look useless. I think smoak will be dfa'd before the season is over.

Fully expect this team to be better by mid season it they roll with tellez/Pearce combo at first and pompey everyday in left.