The Jays have given indications that Schneider could be an OF. With Kiermeier not hitting, he could get more run in LF. Biggio is a decent 2B, but if Orelvis keeps hitting, Cavan won't be able to keep him down.
Blue Jays Discussion: Spring Training is over. The season begins today
- Thread starter The Nemesis
- Start date
So you think they would actually cut Biggio and Vogelbach for Martinez and Barger? I could see them letting Vogelbach go for one of them though. And the second one gets a chance through an injury.
I missed most of the game because of the Leaf game, but heard that Kikuci pitched well again and Varsho homered again continuing to make that trade look not as bad.
There's no chance that they cut Cavan. What I'm thinking is that one of them could come up for Vogelbach, and if he performs well, then the Jays could explore a Cavan Biggio trade.
Outside of 2021 (when he played through injuries that he shouldn't have), Cavan has seasons of 3.0fWAR/500PA, 2.6, 2.1, 1.3. Outside of injuries (and a heinous month to begin last year), that's a starting 2B. The Jays are in no rush to move him, but he should have value if they do.
If you bring one up while DFAing Vogelbach it will be difficult to find time for Barger/Martinez.
tmlfan98
No More Excuses #MarnerOut
IKF and Clement both aren't good enough that either one of them deserves to block Barger from 3B playing time.
Orelvis on the other hand I completely agree. Davis Schneider and Biggio is a tough 2B depth chart to climb with the way those 2 have performed over the last calendar year.
Right now, two of our outfielders aren't playing well enough to stop Schneider/Biggio from getting more OF reps.
tmlfan98
No More Excuses #MarnerOut
Biggio only plays RF (he has outright commented that he really struggles with LF reads and prefers playing RF only).
Even with that being said, you could still be correct if the team gets to a point where Springer becomes a bench bat in their view, regardless of his contract. I doubt this would actually happen, but if it did then the team arguably would have no need for Kiermaier anymore either since Springer as a bench player could probably serve as the backup CF to Varsho.
C Jansen/Kirk
1B Vlad
2B Orelvis (takes Kiermaier's roster spot)
3B Barger (takes Vogelbach's roster spot)
SS Bichette
LF Schneider
CF Varsho
RF Biggio
DH Turner
Bench: Springer, Clement, IKF
Interesting idea which I see the logic for, but I doubt the team would actually do it. They probably just wait for a position player injury to call up Orelvis instead of forcing both Barger+Orelvis onto the 26-man, because the only easy position player to cut is Vogelbach.
The other thing is that I don't see both coming up right away together. The only way I see both is injuries or if one of them establishes right away.
tmlfan98
No More Excuses #MarnerOut
I agree with that, but based on your previous reply I had inferred you didn't think Orelvis will be blocked either.
Neither one is blocked, but they won't both force their way up at the same time (it will be one or the other).
If Orelvis Martinez can play even passable 2B, he's going to be an upgrade once he forces his way up (he's a legit middle of the order bat). He's currently rocking a 168wRC+ in AAA as a 22 year-old. He's basically erased the biggest concerns while keeping the monster bat.
Barger is a weird situation. He quietly has pushed up his prospect profile every year and might be better than what some scouts are giving him credit for. He's a 45 by FG but they might be underrating his hit tool.
tmlfan98
No More Excuses #MarnerOut
Being blocked by the 26-man roster crunch instead of the depth chart still counts as being blocked.
It's only a "roster crunch"
If Orelvis comes up, he's playing 2B every day and Toronto will adjust everything around that.
If Barger comes up, it might be more of a 3B/RF role to start, but if he hits like he is in AAA, he'll become the starting 3B in a hurry.
IKF was signed to his deal with the understanding that someone could steal his starting role.
There is a crunch in the sense that the Jays would likely be taking calls so that they don't lose someone for nothing, but the Jays will trade a Clement/Biggio at a loss if Martinez and Barger force their way up.
tmlfan98
No More Excuses #MarnerOut
Biggio is not someone who should be jettisoned at the expense of 2 unproven prospects. Since he made changes to his plate approach in mid-May of last season he has a 128 wRC+ vs RHP since then, and this season specifically he's off to a 139 wRC+ start vs RHP. Also can play competent defense at 2B/1B/RF.
And Clement still has 4 years of team control after this year. Should be a pretty inexpensive and valuable asset to hold onto with the way he's played since joining the organization. And he can play competent defense at both SS/3B.
Canada4Gold
Registered User
- Dec 22, 2010
- 42,997
- 9,190
Orelvis is only going to come up when the plan is for him to start everyday at 2nd base. Whether that's a result of Biggio, and Schneider struggling, or Kiermaier struggling and one of them being OF more often, or injuries to one or both of them, or Orelvis having a 1.300 OPS when June gets here essentially forcing his way up. If he then comes up and struggles or the plan shifts they can send him back down if he loses playing time. He needs to be playing wherever that is. He's our best chance at a star bat long term.
Barger I'm not sure. Obviously you want him playing too, but his development may not be vital enough where you're completely against him coming up at some point and only starting half of the time.
Horwitz is the bench player I think if they want to call someone up to exclusively be a spare part for now.
Vogelbach is the only piece they should be willing to just ditch at any point. Everyone else is playing well enough, get paid enough or has enough team control you don't want to punt them off the roster. I don't care if IKF, or Kiermaier, or Biggio sits on the bench for a while. Even Schneider and Clement can do that too if one of the other guys forces their way on the team. But none of those 5 are getting optioned or DFA'd anytime soon.
Barger I'm not sure. Obviously you want him playing too, but his development may not be vital enough where you're completely against him coming up at some point and only starting half of the time.
Horwitz is the bench player I think if they want to call someone up to exclusively be a spare part for now.
Vogelbach is the only piece they should be willing to just ditch at any point. Everyone else is playing well enough, get paid enough or has enough team control you don't want to punt them off the roster. I don't care if IKF, or Kiermaier, or Biggio sits on the bench for a while. Even Schneider and Clement can do that too if one of the other guys forces their way on the team. But none of those 5 are getting optioned or DFA'd anytime soon.
tmlfan98
No More Excuses #MarnerOut
Suntouchable13
Registered User
For what it's worth, Kiermaier left with hip discomfort, so it wouldn't be a shock if he was going to the IL.
If Barger is indeed coming up, he needs to play every game. Let him play 3rd, let Cavan play 2nd (when he's in the lineup) and one of IKF/Schneider play LF (with IKF playing 2nd when Cavan is out of the lineup).
Also, I'd like to see Vlad get a full night off with Turner playing 1st, Springer DHing, and Biggio playing RF.
Also, I'd like to see Vlad get a full night off with Turner playing 1st, Springer DHing, and Biggio playing RF.
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
CabanaBoy5
Registered User
That might be the best offensive lineup of the season. No Kirk to leave an exorbitant amount of men on base.
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