Post-Game Talk: So much bad

[Drivesaitl]

Brown has been doing that ever since he and Ryan have started playing together. Lowetide's article this morning outlines the kind of impact Brown makes suppressing on the fourth line.

People need to look at what that line is. It's an effective fourth line.

Lowetide is wrong on most things. Seems to be continuing. This is an inane take.

Not even the coach has agreed with this as Brown was HS just the other game and is seeing minutes go down in a lot of the games.

Brown seems to be used more at home lately when you can match him to the weakest possible opposition. On the road he's seeing reduced minutes almost every game.

Lowetide is just constantly doubling down on Connor Brown. He was enthused with adding this player, thought he would be Hyman like great here,

its good to go back on comments sometimes. Lowetide just keeps on lovin Connor Brown as if he's the players agent.

 

[belair]

Corey Perry has done more in ~10 games than Brown has in ~50. I don't need to dump on Perry's game (which wasn't good against the Flames) to accurately point out that Brown is a zero.

Let me try and simplify a simple message further - when Hamblin was here the 4th line sawed off or outscored with a variety of different wingers, sometimes including Brown and sometimes not. Since Hamblin went back, the 4th line has been much worse, with Brown often a part of it.

I have no idea why you have staked out territory as the lone Brown supporter, but if you want to keep pretending that he's actually somehow a good 4th liner on a championship level team then I'll leave that with you to do you.

James Hamblin had 18 shots on goal in 31 games and didn't contribute to the special teams. The reason why he's in Bakersfield is because it wasn't likely that those goal differentials were going to swing in their favor.

Connor Brown is a better NHL player than anyone on that fourth line. Every game his ability to force pucks is apparent. It's hilarious that you continue to credit others for his success. His icetime will increase as the season progresses based on how he's been playing.

Corey Perry in this short stretch has shown what his game is. And it's essentially a scrappy guy to throw out to play offensively tilted matchups. Because he's hands down our weakest defensive forward.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I don't see a reason to criticize him when he's trying to cover for a D partner that is horrendous in all situations, and is almost single handedly responsible for creating the rush opportunity against fiasco 2.0 this season.

Ceci sucks, I don’t think there’s any question about that, but Nurse is getting paid to elevate his partner. Vegas specifically targeted that pairing last year

 

[kevy9999]

Sorry, but I disagree heavily. Drai and McDavid have produced offensively and have been better defensively as well. Asking them to do more would be asinine at this point as they have done exactly what we wanted them to do the past few years; get better defensively.

And, no, saying a player is shit is not the same as pressuring them to be better. RNH, Nurse, etc, all get paid some big bucks too, if the qualification of asking them to be better is how much hey are paid, then we should be asking them as well to be better, not simply to just put all that weight on two players.

You are not understanding anything. Nobody said but weight on 2 players. They are not above criticism and they should lead by example. A horseshit start to the game yesterday after a horseshit start the game before. And mcdavid and his line set a horrible example in the first period. Whole team though lacked defensive detail. If l.a. scores first today and we come out with any passion in today's game then we have serious problems

 

[Lacaar]

I see people always asking for accountability from McDavid and Drai. Can we actually start asking the other players to step up for once too? Too many floaters on the team who seem to get a pass.

I don't understand how anyone is asking McDavid to be accountable. I guess in sometimes on again off again backchecking. It's really the only thing I can knock on him. I guess we could knock him for a year off poor shooting percentage. I really have no idea what his health is like so maybe he's got something up with the hands.

I'll say this about McDavid this year. It was actually my knock on him when he was younger that I thought he took out of his game. But to me it has come back this year. He can make poor decisions when it comes times to decide whether to pass or shoot. He'll pass into lower percentage plays. It's what separates Gretzky from him imo. Gretzky rarely f***ed a play up with a low percentage pass. If it was better off to shoot.. he'd shoot. He didn't care if the guy in position for the pass was a buddy, needed a goal to be nice, team was up 8-1, etc. Gretzky was a stone cold KILLER when it came to scoring. It's kind of honestly what imo made Gretzky the greatest player of all time. He made the best decisions with the puck, far beyond any of his peers. McDavid creates way more than Gretz ever did, he just can't come close to Gretz's decision making in those last few moments before the goal is scored. Have no fear Connor.. nobody has or likely will since.

Draisitl is another story. Really can just sum it up with one sentence. He takes stupid, lazy, pissy penalties that hurt the team. He admits it, but in todays day and age... talk is cheap.. bull shit is bull shit. We're all taught what to say. Doing is all that matters. Actions are what are important and I haven't seen anything indicating any change unfortunately. When Draisitl is on and in a good frame of mind he's deadly. When he's not.. he hurts the team.

 

[Stoneman89]

Getting tired of you telling everbody their comments are ridiculous several times today. If thats how you want to engage again I won't be seeing it and won't care either.

Oh but you'll say you're joking. When you're not. Truth be told.

I said I was joking about ONE comment. And you turn it into I'm joking about more than that. You are the one that changed your comment from one thing to another, no one else. That is the ridiculous part. Not sure how you can deny that. You said Skinner decided he would be the one to play the games whenever he wanted, to that effect. Are you saying you didn't say that? What player has the authority to tell his coach/management that he will be playing any games? Now , you're on the defensive because someone called your BS on a couple statements you made about a player you clearly have an axe to grind, demanding and getting his wish of playing, as well as impersonating other players. I'm not saying he's the answer or has been playing well lately, but your comments clearly indicate something much deeper than mere criticism.

 

[belair]

Lowetide is wrong on most things. Seems to be continuing. This is an inane take.

Not even the coach has agreed with this as Brown was HS just the other game and is seeing minutes go down in a lot of the games.

Brown seems to be used more at home lately when you can match him to the weakest possible opposition. On the road he's seeing reduced minutes almost every game.

Brown's healthy scratch was a one-off that was punishment for a missed backcheck. His minutes didn't go down after that scratch. He came back and played 12:30 and put four shots on net.

You can count on one hand the number of games Brown has played under 10 minutes. The idea that they're still being reduced is your bias talking and not fact.

Lowetide may be wrong in many cases, but the article states the possession numbers and proves that he and the fourth line has been strong at suppression--a weak point of the team's all around game.

Too much of a focus on goal production or lack thereof and the result is a poor evaluation of specific players.

 

[Stoneman89]

I don't understand how anyone is asking McDavid to be accountable. I guess in sometimes on again off again backchecking. It's really the only thing I can knock on him. I guess we could knock him for a year off poor shooting percentage. I really have no idea what his health is like so maybe he's got something up with the hands.

I'll say this about McDavid this year. It was actually my knock on him when he was younger that I thought he took out of his game. But to me it has come back this year. He can make poor decisions when it comes times to decide whether to pass or shoot. He'll pass into lower percentage plays. It's what separates Gretzky from him imo. Gretzky rarely f***ed a play up with a low percentage pass. If it was better off to shoot.. he'd shoot. He didn't care if the guy in position for the pass was a buddy, needed a goal to be nice, team was up 8-1, etc. Gretzky was a stone cold KILLER when it came to scoring. It's kind of honestly what imo made Gretzky the greatest player of all time. He made the best decisions with the puck, far beyond any of his peers. McDavid creates way more than Gretz ever did, he just can't come close to Gretz's decision making in those last few moments before the goal is scored. Have no fear Connor.. nobody has or likely will since.

Draisitl is another story. Really can just sum it up with one sentence. He takes stupid, lazy, pissy penalties that hurt the team. He admits it, but in todays day and age... talk is cheap.. bull shit is bull shit. We're all taught what to say. Doing is all that matters. Actions are what are important and I haven't seen anything indicating any change unfortunately. When Draisitl is on and in a good frame of mind he's deadly. When he's not.. he hurts the team.

Excellent analysis. Connor is in a funk right now, where he passes when he should shoot and vice versa. Even the best ones go through some stretches. He'll figure it out, but right now it is incredibly frustrating and we need him badly. And for sure, his job is to score and set up goals, but he needs to get his defensive game going again, like it was a few weeks ago. No one is asking him or Draisaitl to be Selke candidates, but they still need some better defensive committment more consistently.

As to Draisaitl, he is a sublime talent and a tremendous player, but to some people on here, he is a sacred cow, and can never be criticized, no matter what. It's always someone else's fault. People aren't dumb and can see when a player is not playing well and taking selfish penalties. When he's on, he's one of the best and a unicorn. But he has periods of down time, and I can't see anything wrong with constructive criticism. Cripes, during the playoffs last year, he could have been mayor of this town based on the posts, so the comments flow both ways.

Brown's healthy scratch was a one-off that was punishment for a missed backcheck. His minutes didn't go down after that scratch. He came back and played 12:30 and put four shots on net.

You can count on one hand the number of games Brown has played under 10 minutes. The idea that they're still being reduced is your bias talking and not fact.

Lowetide may be wrong in many cases, but the article states the possession numbers and proves that he and the fourth line has been strong at suppression--a weak point of the team's all around game.

Too much of a focus on goal production or lack thereof and the result is a poor evaluation of specific players.

The biggest issue with Brown is that due to lack of production, he and whatever line or PK he is part of, have to be perfect each and every game to help the team win. That is a tough ask, and at various points, even the 4th line slugs need to chip in now and then.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Brown's healthy scratch was a one-off that was punishment for a missed backcheck. His minutes didn't go down after that scratch. He came back and played 12:30 and put four shots on net.

You can count on one hand the number of games Brown has played under 10 minutes. The idea that they're still being reduced is your bias talking and not fact.

Lowetide may be wrong in many cases, but the article states the possession numbers and proves that he and the fourth line has been strong at suppression--a weak point of the team's all around game.

Too much of a focus on goal production or lack thereof and the result is a poor evaluation of specific players.

Again these stats are bereft of QOC or consideration of home and road usage and are stated still as if Connor Brown is still playing topsix (something Lowetide said would be a given) and that he himself is having any said impact on stats. On ice stats do not isolate individual contributions. False claims that this is attributed to specific player are lame attempts to prop a player who is really terrible.

The one clear impact Brown has had on all linemates this season is when he's on the ice GF goes down.

For all this rattling about how much Brown does he has 0 goals, 4 assists, and is -9. Guy hasn't scored a goal in two years through 65GP


Connor Brown shouldn't even be in the lineup for the precious little he gets done.

ps Brown has been HS 2-3 times this season. just saying. Should be a lot more.

 

[K1984]

James Hamblin had 18 shots on goal in 31 games and didn't contribute to the special teams. The reason why he's in Bakersfield is because it wasn't likely that those goal differentials were going to swing in their favor.

Connor Brown is a better NHL player than anyone on that fourth line. Every game his ability to force pucks is apparent. It's hilarious that you continue to credit others for his success. His icetime will increase as the season progresses based on how he's been playing.

Corey Perry in this short stretch has shown what his game is. And it's essentially a scrappy guy to throw out to play offensively tilted matchups. Because he's hands down our weakest defensive forward.

I haven't credited anyone else with Brown's success because he hasn't had any success to credit.

The 4th line was better when Hamblin was here, period. I'm not sure what relevance 18 shots in 31 games has to that, but sure.

Ceci sucks, I don’t think there’s any question about that, but Nurse is getting paid to elevate his partner. Vegas specifically targeted that pairing last year

If any player other than Nurse was playing with Ceci at the moment that pair would be -5 every game. This includes Ekholm.

Nurse is the only player on our defence that can even come close to consistently getting back in time when his dumbass d partner launches himself up ice again.

 

[belair]

The biggest issue with Brown is that due to lack of production, he and whatever line or PK he is part of, have to be perfect each and every game to help the team win. That is a tough ask, and at various points, even the 4th line slugs need to chip in now and then.

You'll never hear me argue that point. Everybody needs to contribute offense at some point. To outscore you need to score.

Again these stats are bereft of QOC or consideration of home and road usage and are stated still as if Connor Brown is still playing topsix (something Lowetide said would be a given) and that he himself is having any said impact on stats. On ice stats do not isolate individual contributions. False claims that this is attributed to specific player are lame attempts to prop a player who is really terrible.

The one clear impact Brown has had on all linemates this season is when he's on the ice GF goes down.

For all this rattling about how much Brown does he has 0 goals, 4 assists, and is -9. Guy hasn't scored a goal in two years through 65GP


Connor Brown shouldn't even be in the lineup for the precious little he gets done.

ps Brown has been HS 2-3 times this season. just saying. Should be a lot more.

QoC mentions that Brown is eighth on the team in terms of on ice against elite competition. It also says that his time with Kane was huge drag on his goal differential and Brown has outscored away from him. The stats suggest that Kane is a drag at 5v5. He even hurts Leon Draisaitl. The goals come at a cost.

I've already stated this before, but Brown's impact will increase the later we go into this season. This is a player that has the experience of playing and thriving against top NHL competition. And you're seeing the stripped pucks and effective forechecks on a nightly basis.

The takeaway from that article is that he doesn't give up a lot when he's out there. And the stats have supported that.

 

[frag2]

Excellent analysis. Connor is in a funk right now, where he passes when he should shoot and vice versa. Even the best ones go through some stretches. He'll figure it out, but right now it is incredibly frustrating and we need him badly. And for sure, his job is to score and set up goals, but he needs to get his defensive game going again, like it was a few weeks ago. No one is asking him or Draisaitl to be Selke candidates, but they still need some better defensive committment more consistently.

As to Draisaitl, he is a sublime talent and a tremendous player, but to some people on here, he is a sacred cow, and can never be criticized, no matter what. It's always someone else's fault. People aren't dumb and can see when a player is not playing well and taking selfish penalties. When he's on, he's one of the best and a unicorn. But he has periods of down time, and I can't see anything wrong with constructive criticism. Cripes, during the playoffs last year, he could have been mayor of this town based on the posts, so the comments flow both ways.

When he's on, he's second to McDavid in the world. When he's off, his bad games lately are horribad. Egregious.
Yet, a certain poster here keeps insisting he's equal to McDavid. Funny same poster would rather throw McDavid under the bus [to prop up Drai] than to criticize Drai.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You'll never hear me argue that point. Everybody needs to contribute offense at some point. To outscore you need to score.

QoC mentions that Brown is eighth on the team in terms of on ice against elite competition. It also says that his time with Kane was huge drag on his goal differential and Brown has outscored away from him. The stats suggest that Kane is a drag at 5v5. He even hurts Leon Draisaitl. The goals come at a cost.

I've already stated this before, but Brown's impact will increase the later we go into this season. This is a player that has the experience of playing and thriving against top NHL competition. And you're seeing the stripped pucks and effective forechecks on a nightly basis.

The takeaway from that article is that he doesn't give up a lot when he's out there. And the stats have supported that.

I appreciate the effort, I do. Don't see it the same way but respect for having a good exchange. We'll see what happens. I do see Brown making some plays and anticipating well. But I do see him being weak on puck possessions as well. the one spike is Brown TKA but on Sat% he seems middle of the road.

I'm questioning the QOC. 8th among forwards or on team. Where you getting that?

 

[belair]

I appreciate the effort, I do. Don't see it the same way but respect for having a good exchange. We'll see what happens. I do see Brown making some plays and anticipating well. But I do see him being weak on puck possessions as well. the one spike is Brown TKA but on Sat% he seems middle of the road.

I'm questioning the QOC. 8th among forwards or on team. Where you getting that?

A comment from Lowetide in the comment session of the article. He doesn't have the data presented, but it's hard to see him throwing it out there without the necessary methods of backing it up. QoC can be a finicky stat from what I've read though. Same goes with stats like TKA.

He's right though. The fourth line hasn't been sheltered much. The only players who've been notably sheltered this season were the rookies, Philip Broberg, Sam Gagner and more recently, Corey Perry.

Sat% is kind of funny because I really haven't noticed him throwing shots at the net from distance. When he's had his shots, they've been from in close and have been of good quality. This is one of the reasons why I find it hard to see him finishing the season 0-for. This is a player with a track record of being an impact forward. When the offense clicks for him, it's a good bet that he'll take on a heavier workload.