Salary Cap: Signing Jacob Trouba Part II

[ps241]

It all depends how much he is going to ask for his next contract. Everything over 6 million is way too much, even our team loves to pay way too much money for trash players. Enstrom is good example. Trouba has been pretty bad this season, so he doesn't deserve much money. I was expecting him to be our best defender, but Myers has been way better.

I don’t think Myers is a good example he has been our worst defenseman this season by my eye test fortunately for both of them they have over 70 games left to find their grove.

 

[Asiantuntija]

I don’t think Myers is a good example he has been our worst defenseman this season by my eye test fortunately for both of them they have over 70 games left to find their grove.

I think you're eyes are making trick on you. Myers is +6 this season & Trouba is - 7. Myers has been way better helping the offense to success and he doesn't get burned at defense. Myers has also been way more dangerous in the offense than our golden boy Big B. He has better vision & softer hands. I don't really understand hate for him, he does solid thinks at offense and he knows how to use his size while dribbling the puck.

 

[ps241]

I think you're eyes are making trick on you. Myers is +6 this season & Trouba is - 7. Myers has been way better helping the offense to success and he doesn't get burned at defense. Myers has also been way more dangerous in the offense than our golden boy Big B. He has better vision & softer hands. I don't really understand hate for him, he does solid thinks at offense and he knows how to use his size while dribbling the puck.

I will agree to disagree.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

I was expecting him to be our best defender, but Myers has been way better.

Trouba hasn't had a great start, but this is a ridiculous statement. Myers has looked terrible - no where near his best play even with the Jets.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Trouba hasn't had a great start, but this is a ridiculous statement. Myers has looked terrible - no where near his best play even with the Jets.

I was shocked how bad Tyler has looked at times so far.
Trouba has been steady not spectacular.

 

[Aavco Cup]

I have no idea if these numbers are legit

 

[jetsjetsjets]

I think you're eyes are making trick on you. Myers is +6 this season & Trouba is - 7. Myers has been way better helping the offense to success and he doesn't get burned at defense. Myers has also been way more dangerous in the offense than our golden boy Big B. He has better vision & softer hands. I don't really understand hate for him, he does solid thinks at offense and he knows how to use his size while dribbling the puck.

Myers has looked much worse than Trouba. Myers has been extremely fortunate with his results, and if you look at pretty much anything but +/- (which you're better off ignoring by the way) you can see Trouba is having the better season.

 

[GNP]

It all depends how much he is going to ask for his next contract. Everything over 6 million is way too much, even our team loves to pay way too much money for trash players. Enstrom is good example. Trouba has been pretty bad this season, so he doesn't deserve much money. I was expecting him to be our best defender, but Myers has been way better.

I agree with this, and Trouba wanting over $ 6 mil, I would be thinking long and hard about that commitment if I was Chevy. I'd likely go around $ 6 mil, if he has a decent year. ( no more)

The big waste of money is Enstrom, as far as I'm concerned, and they could have dumped him to Las Vegas, on expansion and played Poolman, and results would have been just as good.

I hope Enstrom is "gone" next year or signed as a back up for $ 1 mil per year, but they would do better to play an up and comer. Enstrom-to small, and injury prone.

 

[nobody important]

I think you're eyes are making trick on you. Myers is +6 this season & Trouba is - 7. Myers has been way better helping the offense to success and he doesn't get burned at defense. Myers has also been way more dangerous in the offense than our golden boy Big B. He has better vision & softer hands. I don't really understand hate for him, he does solid thinks at offense and he knows how to use his size while dribbling the puck.

Cut to Garret...

 

[nobody important]

I have no idea if these numbers are legit

When you introduce yourself as "a dinosaur in the age of hockey analytics ,.Corsi has its flaws. I've developed my own metrics", I would question the validity of these numbers.

 

[surixon]

Tyler Myers has been awful this year. He has a CF% of 38 and a rel CF% of -11. The team is getting killed when he's on the ice. The only reason it's not showing up in the boxscores is due to the fact he's rocking a crazy high and unsustainable PDO of 107.

Trouba and Morrissey for that matter of a crazy low POD 89 and 92. This despite both being positive rel possession players. They simply put aren't getting any save by the goalie when they are on. On ice sabe percentage below .86 for both where Myers has a .95 on ice save percentage.

 

[Duke749]

I have no idea if these numbers are legit

Could be. I know Myers has been making mistakes left and right but I don’t recall a lot ending up in the net. They don’t always and I imagine some of that is chance.

 

[meedle]

I know this thread isn't about myers, but i find his problem sometimes is the first pass when he is tired and his strength is moving people out of the crease and his long reach. I would say that is the reason he is better defensively as opponents can't get to loose pucks. I don't think people are watching the same things. I would say Trouba is better positionally but can make bone head mistakes once in awhile.

 

[Asiantuntija]

Everyone can say whatever they want, but fact is that when Myers is on ice our team scores and doesn't get scored against. His defense ain't pretty but it works very well and he is very good at forcing opponents to take shots from bad shots. Do you already forgot how Myers set up Wheeler & Laine at PP last game?

 

[buggs]

Could be. I know Myers has been making mistakes left and right but I don’t recall a lot ending up in the net. They don’t always and I imagine some of that is chance.

Carolina game he seemed substantially awful and the puck did go in the net, but those were PP goals for Carolina I believe so might be skewing the numbers. It sure helped his +/- (which yes, is not a useful metric).

 

[10Ducky10]

Myers sucks and should be traded.

 

[Unholy goalie]

Everyone can say whatever they want, but fact is that when Myers is on ice our team scores and doesn't get scored against. His defense ain't pretty but it works very well and he is very good at forcing opponents to take shots from bad shots. Do you already forgot how Myers set up Wheeler & Laine at PP last game?

Trouba and Myers have seen close to the same amount of shots + blocks + misses on net (Trouba: 123, Myers: 118). Assuming you don't believe a difference of 5 shots/blocks/misses explains the difference in goals allowed, is it really a difference between Trouba and Myers' play or are there other things going on that could explain what you are seeing? Are they individually responsible for all the shots on net while they are on the ice? Are there specific plays you can point to where Trouba's mistake led directly to a goal?

Additionally, Trouba has generated (and helped his teammates generate) more shots/blocks/misses than Myers (Trouba: 116, Myers: 73). This gives the team a better chance of scoring, while also having the secondary effect of limiting the opposition's chance of scoring (because they can't have the puck).

The choice between the two seems clear enough, but maybe there's something in the evidence you haven't provided yet that might make people think otherwise.

 

[surixon]

Trouba and Myers have seen close to the same amount of shots + blocks + misses on net (Trouba: 123, Myers: 118). Assuming you don't believe a difference of 5 shots/blocks/misses explains the difference in goals allowed, is it really a difference between Trouba and Myers' play or are there other things going on that could explain what you are seeing? Are they individually responsible for all the shots on net while they are on the ice? Are there specific plays you can point to where Trouba's mistake led directly to a goal?

Additionally, Trouba has generated (and helped his teammates generate) more shots/blocks/misses than Myers (Trouba: 116, Myers: 73). This gives the team a better chance of scoring, while also having the secondary effect of limiting the opposition's chance of scoring (because they can't have the puck).

The choice between the two seems clear enough, but maybe there's something in the evidence you haven't provided yet that might make people think otherwise.

It's pretty simple Trouba is on the ice for goals against so he's not as good defensively in most people's eyes.

They don't rate that the Jets have gotten below replacement level goaltending when he's on the ice while Myers is getting elite vezna calibre goaltending when he's on the ice. These things will even out as the sample size increases. If Myers continues to get substantially outshot teams will score more on him and his PDO will regress to 100 and Trouba's and Morrissey's will regress the opposite way to 100.

 

[ps241]

I am hoping Myers early struggles are a byproduct of him missing a full season of play (hive or take 11 games). He is not reacting and reading the game nearly as fast as he use to and I have to think that is rust. Hopefully he plays his way out of his funk and in the meantime I hope he keeps getting lucky goaltending.

 

[Asiantuntija]

Trouba and Myers have seen close to the same amount of shots + blocks + misses on net (Trouba: 123, Myers: 118). Assuming you don't believe a difference of 5 shots/blocks/misses explains the difference in goals allowed, is it really a difference between Trouba and Myers' play or are there other things going on that could explain what you are seeing? Are they individually responsible for all the shots on net while they are on the ice? Are there specific plays you can point to where Trouba's mistake led directly to a goal?

Additionally, Trouba has generated (and helped his teammates generate) more shots/blocks/misses than Myers (Trouba: 116, Myers: 73). This gives the team a better chance of scoring, while also having the secondary effect of limiting the opposition's chance of scoring (because they can't have the puck).

The choice between the two seems clear enough, but maybe there's something in the evidence you haven't provided yet that might make people think otherwise.

We can look numbers allday without finding the quality of the situations. Trouba maybe generates more shots, but Myers generates more prime goalscoring opportunities. In my opinion Trouba ain't that good at offense or defense, he usually handles his role pretty well, but doesn't do anything special like Myers.

 

[QuietContrarian]

I wouldnt be sad if we traded Trouba, I dont like his commitment at all. But Myers hasnt been better imo.

Trouba however looks too laissez faire at times for my liking, both on and off ice - Get a good half season out of him, and trade him for a top 4 D and a pick.

 

[untouchable21]

If it's clear Trouba won't re-sign long term, I try and swing a deal for OEL and work on signing him long term.

Both teams are in pretty much the same predicament if OEL has had enough of hockey in the the desert.

Coyotes don't need a package of futures should they look to trade him, they need NHL players who can contribute right now, much like the Jets needs.

Other pieces could be added to make this much bigger or it can be strictly a one for one.

Is Jets nation afraid Chayka will take Chevy to the woodshed and school him in any such trade?

 

[Eyeseeing]

I have no idea if these numbers are legit

You forgot Dano's 18 or 20 mistakes ...from penalties

 

[Unholy goalie]

We can look numbers allday without finding the quality of the situations. Trouba maybe generates more shots, but Myers generates more prime goalscoring opportunities. In my opinion Trouba ain't that good at offense or defense, he usually handles his role pretty well, but doesn't do anything special like Myers.

I'd be happy to trust your opinion if you can provide some physical evidence - clips, pics, reference to plays, or stats you prefer (people keep track of shot location for example) - that supports it. Sometimes I see a play that really frustrates me, and I want to make a generalised statement about a player, but it helps me to check myself by rewatching video, looking at stats, and considering what others have to say. You have clearly formed an opinion and have walked away from the first few games with a feeling about Myers and Trouba, but this has run sharply against what many others around here believe. It would help if you had some sort of physical evidence to back up your claim, other than +/- which has already been discussed as being a very weak predictor of future performance. I've had my mind changed on these boards more than I'd like to admit, and it always comes when someone has taken the time to thoughtfully provide the method behind their madness and has been open to talking about it.

Both Trouba and Myers have struggled this season, so it seems like there is generally less to celebrate than to be concerned about. Yet if I had to choose one, current performance as well as historical performance still leads me to prefer Trouba. We can discuss that in any terms you want.

Getting him to sign here though.. that seems like a long shot (whether or not he paints himself into a corner a bit with some poor play).

 

[jetsjetsjets]

We can look numbers allday without finding the quality of the situations. Trouba maybe generates more shots, but Myers generates more prime goalscoring opportunities. In my opinion Trouba ain't that good at offense or defense, he usually handles his role pretty well, but doesn't do anything special like Myers.

You can find the quality of the situations very easily.

Myers High Danger Scoring Chances
For: 11
Against: 23

Trouba High Danger Scoring Chances
For: 21
Against: 23

So far you've been wrong on everything, but keep going...