Salary Cap: Signing Jacob Trouba Part II

[YWGinYYZ]

@meedle - Buff's got that pesky NMC. Sticks a pin into that idea, unless Buff agrees to waive it.

 

[ffh]

I've long held the belief is that ultimately Chevy and Overcharge hit on a compromise on the eve of Trouba's arbitration hearing this summer. Something mid range, for nice money but not out of the world. Something like 5 years with a $7 - 7.5 M AAV range. Not perfect, but not all contracts can be. Trouba then becomes a UFA in his late 20's and gets to call his shot.

I will say it again for the umpteenth time . trouba isn't worth anything near that kind of money. not even close. thank you poolman for making this decision easy. that's elite defenseman money. that not trouba.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I will say it again for the umpteenth time . trouba isn't worth anything near that kind of money. not even close. thank you poolman for making this decision easy. that's elite defenseman money. that not trouba.

You can say it umpteen times more. Doesn't make it any more right.

 

[ffh]

You can say it umpteen times more. Doesn't make it any more right.

well when you look at dmen that are better then him signing for less money its more right then wrong.

 

[Maukkis]

well when you look at dmen that are better then him signing for less money its more right then wrong.

Because all that ever matters in contract discussions is ability, right?

 

[CaptainChef]

@meedle - Buff's got that pesky NMC. Sticks a pin into that idea, unless Buff agrees to waive it.

NMC becomes limited NMC after this year. I'm convinced there is no other way than to trade Buff in off-season (we already have the highest salary going to defence in the NHL)

 

[nobody important]

Yes, officially. Though doubt exists behind the scenes.

I certainly have doubts. And he is on a bridge contract.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

well when you look at dmen that are better then him signing for less money its more right then wrong.

Except that you are wrong about who you think is better than him so ........

Your opinions are just your opinions, not facts.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Sign him for 8 years at 7 million and trade Buff.

 

[csk]

Sign him for 8 years at 7 million and trade Buff.

I would consider 7mil×8yrs to be a good deal

 

[GNP]

Listen on Trouba here - with our deep resources at defenceman, I'm glad Trouba will not be able to hold the Jet's ransom for $ 8 million bucs ( oouch !!!)

QUESTION- wouldn't you rather have 2 Kulikov's at $ 4 mil per season ???

OR
2 Tyler Myer's for $ 3.5 mil per son ???

I'd rather have 2 of the above any day !!! he's not exactly moving the needle this year,and is overrated for the kind of money he wants. I'd trade him, for a great 2-nd or 3-rd line center. Maybe to New York, where all "overpaid" players go.

 

[Saintb]

Listen on Trouba here - with our deep resources at defenceman, I'm glad Trouba will not be able to hold the Jet's ransom for $ 8 million bucs ( oouch !!!)

QUESTION- wouldn't you rather have 2 Kulikov's at $ 4 mil per season ???

OR
2 Tyler Myer's for $ 3.5 mil per son ???

I'd rather have 2 of the above any day !!! he's not exactly moving the needle this year,and is overrated for the kind of money he wants. I'd trade him, for a great 2-nd or 3-rd line center. Maybe to New York, where all "overpaid" players go.

I wouldn't go above 7 for Trouba. and that would have to be on a long term deal.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Listen on Trouba here - with our deep resources at defenceman, I'm glad Trouba will not be able to hold the Jet's ransom for $ 8 million bucs ( oouch !!!)

QUESTION- wouldn't you rather have 2 Kulikov's at $ 4 mil per season ???

OR
2 Tyler Myer's for $ 3.5 mil per son ???

I'd rather have 2 of the above any day !!! he's not exactly moving the needle this year,and is overrated for the kind of money he wants. I'd trade him, for a great 2-nd or 3-rd line center. Maybe to New York, where all "overpaid" players go.

Opinions on Trouba and what he is worth are obviously widely scattered.

Would I take 2xKuli for him? Not even remotely close.
Would I take 2xMyers? I don't have words.
Trade him for a C? Only if that C is named Matthews, McDavid, Eichel or Scheifele - oh wait, we have Scheifele. A 3C? Not for the best 1 in the world!

 

[GNP]

Opinions on Trouba and what he is worth are obviously widely scattered.

Would I take 2xKuli for him? Not even remotely close.
Would I take 2xMyers? I don't have words.
Trade him for a C? Only if that C is named Matthews, McDavid, Eichel or Scheifele - oh wait, we have Scheifele. A 3C? Not for the best 1 in the world!

Well Mort -what can I say ??? for the most part, we totally disagree, and that's OK , as that's what the good spirit of these boards bring out-"lot's of different opinions", and different ways of looking at things.

I looked at Trouba's numbers so far this year for all defenceman in the NHL - they are not good !! he's ( - 4) and has hardly scored. I have also not seen him dominating play when I've watched the Jets this year. Was very solid last year though.

[mod] everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I do agree it's far to early this year to decide. I do think Trouba is a good upper middle class defenceman, and looked really solid last year. I just think there's way to much hype on him, for what he has produced. We shall see !!! He certainly not worth $ 8 million bucs !! maybe $ 6.5 to $ 7 mil tops. I'll bet he thinks he's worth $ 8 mil plus (+), and he's lucky I'm not Chevy, coz I'd trade him away. To much trouble and distraction with the guy already. I'd likely go $ 6.5 to 7 and that's it. He certainly is "not" better or adds more value to the Jets, than Nik Ehlers-"no way" and Ehlers signed a reasonable contract at around $ 6 mil over 7 yeras. ( great deal) and you get a guy with a great attitude in Ehlers. What are you going to get with Trouba ?

I really like the way Myers and Kulikov are playing right now, and I still think Buff is still the Jet's best defenceman. He does make some mistakes, but he can dominate the play, and score points.

 

[JetsFan815]

^^ This is not a good hot take. Trouba is in a completely different stratosphere compared to guys like Myers and Kulikov. The Jets have 2 tiers of dmen:

Tier 1:

Trouba
Buff
Morrissey

------------

Tier 2:

Enstrom
Myers
Kulikov

If Trouba comes to Chevy tomorrow and says that he wants an 8x8 deal. Chevy should be all over that. Jets D without Trouba and an aging Buff looks pretty sad to be honest. Kulikov and Myers are 5-6 type depth d-men not guys that can carry the workload of a #1

 

[nobody important]

the trouba hit injured draisaitl. not sure if he is concussed now.

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...dition-downgraded-to-concussion-type-symptoms

I'm going to bring this over from the Around the League thread because I think we need to focus on more concerning behaviour from Mr Trouba. That hit on Draisaitl looks like a carbon copy of the one he laid on Mark Stone last year, for which he got a paltry two game suspension.

http://nationalpost.com/sports/hock...on-mark-stone-that-left-ottawa-senators-irate

Now, one of the league's stars may have a concussion and it looks like he will get away with it this time. Trouba is a predator with no regard for the well being of other players. I hope he still wants out. The sooner we move on from players of his ilk, the better. Hopefully to a team we only play twice a year, so he will have fewer opportunities to go after our stars.

 

[Say What]

If Trouba comes to Chevy tomorrow and says that he wants an 8x8 deal. Chevy should be all over that. Jets D without Trouba and an aging Buff looks pretty sad to be honest. Kulikov and Myers are 5-6 type depth d-men not guys that can carry the workload of a #1

That term, and more importantly, that salary; will IMO almost assuredly not be signed in Winnipeg. I personally believe that Jacob Trouba has a slightly more realistic view of his worth, league wide. Time will tell.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well Mort -what can I say ??? for the most part, we totally disagree, and that's OK , as that's what the good spirit of these boards bring out-"lot's of different opinions", and different ways of looking at things.

I looked at Trouba's numbers so far this year for all defenceman in the NHL - they are not good !! he's ( - 4) and has hardly scored. I have also not seen him dominating play when I've watched the Jets this year. Was very solid last year though.

[mod] everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I do agree it's far to early this year to decide. I do think Trouba is a good upper middle class defenceman, and looked really solid last year. I just think there's way to much hype on him, for what he has produced. We shall see !!! He certainly not worth $ 8 million bucs !! maybe $ 6.5 to $ 7 mil tops. I'll bet he thinks he's worth $ 8 mil plus (+), and he's lucky I'm not Chevy, coz I'd trade him away. To much trouble and distraction with the guy already. I'd likely go $ 6.5 to 7 and that's it. He certainly is "not" better or adds more value to the Jets, than Nik Ehlers-"no way" and Ehlers signed a reasonable contract at around $ 6 mil over 7 yeras. ( great deal) and you get a guy with a great attitude in Ehlers. What are you going to get with Trouba ?

I really like the way Myers and Kulikov are playing right now, and I still think Buff is still the Jet's best defenceman. He does make some mistakes, but he can dominate the play, and score points.

Yes, we are very far apart in our opinions on Trouba. When we talk contracts we are talking two entirely different players and that's why our numbers are so far apart.

I agree that he hasn't been great so far this year but - 5 games in. The whole team except Bucky, Niko and maybe Scheif has been poor. Please don't mention +-, really. You can continue to value it if you wish but it has been thoroughly discredited.

You can't directly compare Niko's contract to one that Trouba would sign now. Niko is signing earlier in the process and that changes the numbers. To get the same result Trouba would have to sign for 5x6.8. That is 2x3 plus 5x6.8 = 42 mil. Same total $$$ over same total period. Years added on to that are at a higher number because they are all UFA years and inflation is assumed. Lets say, just for example that the 2 parties agree on adding 2 years at 8.5 each to that 5x6.8 (34 mil). That is 34+17=51. That is then 7x7.285. The exercise is the same to compare to Scheifele's contract.

If your assessment of his ability and value is accurate then I fully agree with trading him ASAP because we are not going to be able to sign him for the money you think is appropriate - unless it is for a shorter term like 4-5 years.

I am somewhat pleased with both Myers and Kulikov but only because my expectations were low. Even if Trouba has been a little less than expected he is still way above those 2. Buff can dominate and score but he doesn't do either enough to be as good as Trouba - IMO.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm going to bring this over from the Around the League thread because I think we need to focus on more concerning behaviour from Mr Trouba. That hit on Draisaitl looks like a carbon copy of the one he laid on Mark Stone last year, for which he got a paltry two game suspension.

http://nationalpost.com/sports/hock...on-mark-stone-that-left-ottawa-senators-irate

Now, one of the league's stars may have a concussion and it looks like he will get away with it this time. Trouba is a predator with no regard for the well being of other players. I hope he still wants out. The sooner we move on from players of his ilk, the better. Hopefully to a team we only play twice a year, so he will have fewer opportunities to go after our stars.

Didn't like the hit on Drai (if I am remembering the right one) because Trouba left his feet. It was quite clear and I was surprised that the broadcast crew never mentioned that. Leaping into another player like that provides unnecessary extra force but, more importantly, leads to the high impact.

I'm not quite ready to label Trouba a predator or a dirty player but if he doesn't dial that back a little that is exactly what he will be.

The purpose of a body check is to knock the opponent off the puck, to take the puck away from him, to disrupt the play he is trying to make. It is not to injure the opposing player. You can make an argument for causing some pain to inhibit future play by that player - intimidation - but that has to be limited by the risk of serious injury.

 

[scelaton]

Trouba is a predator with no regard for the well being of other players. I hope he still wants out. The sooner we move on from players of his ilk, the better.....

I think you may be confusing our best defenseman with Raffi Torres .
Trouba's hit on Drai, while high, was no different than hundreds we see on a regular basis, was not penalized and is now being discussed only in retrospect. Trouba needs to tone it down, but is hardly a "predator".
Should we also get rid of Lowry, because of his suspension for a more dangerous boarding incident? How about that predator Malkin, for his hit on Wheeler?
I am a strong proponent of eliminating high hits and reducing concussions, but the league (and its fans) got itself into this mess by allowing such hits over many decades, and lionizing players like Scott Stevens.

 

[nobody important]

I'm not quite ready to label Trouba a predator or a dirty player but if he doesn't dial that back a little that is exactly what he will be

If you need more evidence that this is ingrained behaviour...

 

[GNP]

Yes, we are very far apart in our opinions on Trouba. When we talk contracts we are talking two entirely different players and that's why our numbers are so far apart.

I agree that he hasn't been great so far this year but - 5 games in. The whole team except Bucky, Niko and maybe Scheif has been poor. Please don't mention +-, really. You can continue to value it if you wish but it has been thoroughly discredited.

You can't directly compare Niko's contract to one that Trouba would sign now. Niko is signing earlier in the process and that changes the numbers. To get the same result Trouba would have to sign for 5x6.8. That is 2x3 plus 5x6.8 = 42 mil. Same total $$$ over same total period. Years added on to that are at a higher number because they are all UFA years and inflation is assumed. Lets say, just for example that the 2 parties agree on adding 2 years at 8.5 each to that 5x6.8 (34 mil). That is 34+17=51. That is then 7x7.285. The exercise is the same to compare to Scheifele's contract.

If your assessment of his ability and value is accurate then I fully agree with trading him ASAP because we are not going to be able to sign him for the money you think is appropriate - unless it is for a shorter term like 4-5 years.


I am somewhat pleased with both Myers and Kulikov but only because my expectations were low. Even if Trouba has been a little less than expected he is still way above those 2. Buff can dominate and score but he doesn't do either enough to be as good as Trouba - IMO.

Your an excellent poster on here Mort, and make great observations, but I just don't quite agree with you on the value of Trouba. Just like you, I think he's a great young defenceman, that's still developing, with great upside, and would love to see the Jet's sign him, for something reasonable, and that will be Chevy's mindset as well.

I guess you think he's worth quite a bit more than I do, but that will be largely determined by how he plays this year, and the kind of numbers he puts up. He's nowhere in the league of Erik Karlson, or Aron Ekblad in my opinion.

Thing I don't like is the "grandstanding"- the holdout and so forth. If I was his father I'd tell him to sign for $ 6-7 mil per year over 4 years, so he'll have financial security for the rest of his life. After that 4 year period, if he proves he's a top elite defenceman, he can then go for the "mega dollars." Right now though-it's not there.

Don't forget, he's taking a big risk right now- he could break his leg, or crash into the boards and break his neck and be paralysed. I think what's happening with Trouba is largely being orchestrated by agent Kurt Overhart, and I think he's getting bad advice

We'll probably lose him in the long run, just like we did with Keith Thachuk, but I do agree with you, it be great to sign him. He'd be best to pad his bank account now-"for sure" and sign a bridge deal for about 4 years.

 

[nobody important]

I think you may be confusing our best defenseman with Raffi Torres .
Trouba's hit on Drai, while high, was no different than hundreds we see on a regular basis, was not penalized and is now being discussed only in retrospect. Trouba needs to tone it down, but is hardly a "predator".
Should we also get rid of Lowry, because of his suspension for a more dangerous boarding incident? How about that predator Malkin, for his hit on Wheeler?
I am a strong proponent of eliminating high hits and reducing concussions, but the league (and its fans) got itself into this mess by allowing such hits over many decades, and lionizing players like Scott Stevens.

I think Lowry got the message early. That was an isolated incident that I don't recall being repeated. Trouba is not getting the message that that these sorts of hits are becoming increasingly unacceptable in light of what we are learning about long term brain damage. He has done them enough times that I am comfortable with calling him a dirty player.

 

[Heldig]

I thought it was a textbook clean hit on Draisatl? Trouba left his feet AFTER contact because of physics.

 

[surixon]

I thought it was a textbook clean hit on Draisatl? Trouba left his feet AFTER contact because of physics.

Agreed Trouba has thrown his fair share of stupid hits (Stone last year and the one in the preseason) but the Draistial one was fine imo.