Salary Cap: Signing Jacob Trouba Part II

[GNP]

Some discussion on the radio last week on Yzerman being at two Jets games in a row and speculation that he might be interested in Trouba. Didn't see much discussion about this on here but perhaps I missed it. If a trade happened with TB, who would we value as a main piece coming back

If Yzerman was at 2 Jet's games in a row, you can bet he wasn't there for the good of his health. It all adds up really-- Trouba wants out of Winnipeg, has bought a condo in Florida, and his girlfriend is in Florida. ( apparently)

There's a "very good chance" that in light of what I just said, that Chevy and Yzerman have been talking about different trade scenarios, and Steve wanted to check out Trouba for himself. To bad Trouba is not playing well right now-"his stock is dropping."

 

[Gabe Kupari]

I WANT to be with the Jets and play for the Jets REALLY BADLY. I will accept 1/5th of the salary that Myers will. This means the Jets should sign me and put me in the lineup. Afterall one wants to be here an the other does not

Right. You obviously refuse to accept the fact that Trouba doesnt want to be here. That matters regardless of what ridiculous comparison you make.

 

[CaptainChef]

If we could get Sergechev for Trouba- I think Chevy would make the deal

Talent wise, I think its a pretty good deal for us as well. I think it works for TB as well if they are going for it now because where could they find a better first pair D giving up just a very promising prospect. Problem is definitely salary.

That's where a salaried C like Johnson at 5.0/yr might need to be included, and we ship back a promising young forward or prospect in the deal. Copp probably isn't enough, but Roslovik might be too much from our end?

Or do they simply throw in another overpriced D-man like Coburn or Girardi. I'm assuming that both are overpriced & more of a deterent to the deal (from our end) than a help, but they at least make the $ work

 

[JetsFan815]

Right. You obviously refuse to accept the fact that Trouba doesnt want to be here. That matters regardless of what ridiculous comparison you make.

Since you declared a preference for an objectively worse player who "wants to be here", why is it so ridiculous to apply that standard more broadly? How do you know that Trouba "doesn't want to be here"? For now I am trying to take Trouba at his word that him demanding a trade had to do with playing on the right side in an appropriate role

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Since you declared a preference for an objectively worse player who "wants to be here", why is it so ridiculous to apply that standard more broadly? How do you know that Trouba "doesn't want to be here"? For now I am trying to take Trouba at his word that him demanding a trade had to do with playing on the right side in an appropriate role

Lol. Really .. Just lol. Thats all i got here. Hes going to be traded.

 

[Belzebob]

I WANT to be with the Jets and play for the Jets REALLY BADLY. I will accept 1/5th of the salary that Myers will. This means the Jets should sign me and put me in the lineup. Afterall "one wants to be here an the other does not"

how about if after the injury disaster at the start of last year he had ended his holdout for the good of the team?

that would of shown some loyalty to the team, and would of totally turned my opinion of him.

 

[GNP]

Talent wise, I think its a pretty good deal for us as well. I think it works for TB as well if they are going for it now because where could they find a better first pair D giving up just a very promising prospect. Problem is definitely salary.

That's where a salaried C like Johnson at 5.0/yr might need to be included, and we ship back a promising young forward or prospect in the deal. Copp probably isn't enough, but Roslovik might be too much from our end?

I wouldn't want to give up Roslovic--we really don't know his upside yet, and not even close. Maybe Copp and Dano/Petan though would be OK ? I don't know how good Johnson is, as I don't see Tampa play, but Chevy is no fool, and I trust he will make a strong deal.

 

[JetsFan815]

how about if after the injury disaster at the start of last year he had ended his holdout for the good of the team?

that would of shown some loyalty to the team, and would of totally turned my opinion of him.

Did TNSE show loyalty to Andrew Ladd by trading him after he played hurt in the 2015 playoffs and likely hurt his career long term?

This is a business, players are not in the business of impressing fans by "displays of loyalty", just like teams are not expected to "show loyalty" to their players. I didn't like that he held out but it has very little to with 'now' and how I think he should fit into the future of this team

 

[AWSAA]

He's off the PP in favor of Armia now. This should end well.

 

[Howard Chuck]

My latest Conspiracy Theory..... Trouba found out he's going to be traded and was told not to get hurt last night.


.... or he was just crappy.

 

[Belzebob]

there are some other very pertinent facts related to this situation.

it is the Trouba camp that has lost all leverage and is the side that is cornered.

if he continues to play this poorly then he has lost all leverage.

his goal appears to be to play out the string to rfa status, to see what the offers are.

other teams will be loathe to offer what he thinks he is worth for a player who will quit on his team if he does not get his way.

if some idiot does offer him crazy money on an offer sheet we could take the compensation.

an offer that is somewhat near what chevy sees as his actual value to the team would be matched.

if he wants to go to arbitration then a jet offer could be 4 mil a season, (a I mil raise) , and his side could ask for whatever they wanted.

I think the arbitrator would look at it as his production from this year and rule accordingly.

either way if we end up with this asset then we are free to trade him wherever we want.

if he thinks Winnipeg is a long way from florida, lets see how he feels after a couple of years in edmonton

 

[jetsjetsjets]

you seem to miss a few contextual parts also.

a long term contract now uses up UFA years because of Trouba's hold out and expected salary.

55 decided he wanted to be here and signed. that is the kind of player I want here.

This is such a naive way of looking at things. Bridge deals are very common and deals as good as Scheifele's are the exception to the rule.
Why is it disloyal to want to be paid for what your worth? Should he just blindly accept whatever number Chevy throws at him at max term? It's a negotiation process, and one tactic for players yet to reach max potential is to sign a short deal in hopes of improving, then sign a more lucrative deal because they've improved and because they're closer to being a UFA.
Let's say Scheifele signed his 6.125M contract after after scoring 61 in 71 games, then went back to being a 40-50 point scorer. Does that make Trouba worth way more than 6.125M?

I do not believe that we should now pay more per annum because Trouba held out for more money.

I also do not want other players thinking they can try the same tactics to inflate their salary.

in other words, if a message needs sent to current and future players, I would nominate the one who has shown no loyalty and by his play seems disinterested.

and that would be Jacob

This is exactly why we have to pay Trouba more now. Have you ever been part of a contract negotiation because this is negotiation 101. Trouba essentially bet that he would get better when he became extremely underpaid and agreed to a 2 year 6M contract. He won that bet just like almost every bridged defenseman who has improved after signing and deserves to get paid because of it.
Loyalty is bad business and NHL is a business. If Trouba signed max term for 5 million and sucked, fans would be screaming for a buyout and all of the sudden loyalty doesn't matter anymore. Everyone wants nice things but cries when they don't get a deal.

 

[Belzebob]

This is such a naive way of looking at things. Bridge deals are very common and deals as good as Scheifele's are the exception to the rule.
Why is it disloyal to want to be paid for what your worth? Should he just blindly accept whatever number Chevy throws at him at max term? It's a negotiation process, and one tactic for players yet to reach max potential is to sign a short deal in hopes of improving, then sign a more lucrative deal because they've improved and because they're closer to being a UFA.
Let's say Scheifele signed his 6.125M contract after after scoring 61 in 71 games, then went back to being a 40-50 point scorer. Does that make Trouba worth way more than 6.125M?



This is exactly why we have to pay Trouba more now. Have you ever been part of a contract negotiation because this is negotiation 101. Trouba essentially bet that he would get better when he became extremely underpaid and agreed to a 2 year 6M contract. He won that bet just like almost every bridged defenseman who has improved after signing and deserves to get paid because of it.
Loyalty is bad business and NHL is a business. If Trouba signed max term for 5 million and sucked, fans would be screaming for a buyout and all of the sudden loyalty doesn't matter anymore. Everyone wants nice things but cries when they don't get a deal.

if you honestly think that Trouba is better now, I have no idea what games you are watching

 

[nobody important]

Garrioch in his rumours column today says the Jets are not interested in trading Trouba (surprise surprise)

I'm not interested in dying, but sometimes that choice is out of your control.

 

[jetsjetsjets]

if you honestly think that Trouba is better now, I have no idea what games you are watching

He is absolutely, 100% better and worth almost double what he was on the day he signed his bridge deal. Not only defensively, but he had 12 more points in 20 less games when comparing the year immediately after he signed to the year before. In fact, I would argue 15/16 was easily his worst professional year. For him to sign max term after 15/16 would pretty much guarantee he's underpaid until 30 years old. That's potentially tens of millions of dollars. Can't believe I had to explain that...

 

[Belzebob]

He is absolutely, 100% better and worth almost double what he was on the day he signed his bridge deal. Not only defensively, but he had 12 more points in 20 less games when comparing the year immediately after he signed to the year before. In fact, I would argue 15/16 was easily his worst professional year. For him to sign max term after 15/16 would pretty much guarantee he's underpaid until 30 years old. That's potentially tens of millions of dollars. Can't believe I had to explain that...

I guess we will just have to agree that we disagree. I do not think he is worth any more than 6mil a year.

the other side of the coin is that a 5 year deal with a guarantee of 30mil total, is far better than signing a bridge a 3 mil and taking a chance on a career ending injury.

that is unless your plan is to float for 2 years. if that is his plan see my above post

 

[Adam da bomb]

Yes, but Trouba is playing lousy this year. He is showing his attitude and that he quits when he's not happy. He is also showing that he is replaceable. Duchene weakened his team by wanting out and Colorado walked away with a lot of goodies. I would give Morissey Trouba's powerplay time and the powerplay would only improve. Trouba is doing nothing offensively this year.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Right now I think the Stanley draft was better than Trouba as Stanley at least didn't sabotage his own team.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Right now I think the Stanley draft was better than Trouba as Stanley at least didn't sabotage his own team.

What? Stanley has a pretty high chance of never making the NHL or playing in more that 50 - 100 games. Trouba has been inconsistent which is pretty common on our team. He isn't the only one not looking great for 60 minutes.

Regardless of where he wants to play I don't think he is intentionally sabotaging his play. That does him NO good in a contract year.

Perhaps he's just not playing his best yet.
At this time last year he wasn't even playing hockey yet and he had a pretty great year from that point on.

 

[AWSAA]

I would give Morissey Trouba's powerplay time and the powerplay would only improve. Trouba is doing nothing offensively this year.

Still has more goals than Big Buff (who gets top minutes, PP1). Trouba's already been taken off the PP btw.

 

[Bob E]

He plays against the other team’s best.

Myers or Buff are not usually given that role, and teams look to get their best on against someone other than Trouba and Morrissey.

If you look at his point totals and think he is playing poorly, that’s short sighted imo. there’s more to his role on this team than scoring points. The fact he’s wins his match up more often than he loses speaks volumes.

They will try to sign him. Trouba may have other ideas but his role on this team is significant. He will not be easy to replace.

 

[Belzebob]

the future of this franchise does no live or die due to the status of Trouba.

would I rather he was on the team....yes.

would I pay more than 6 mil a year for his services......no.

a previous poster stated that bridge deals were used to show that the player is worth more than offered

I do not agree that Trouba has proven that.

to be cap compliant and have a competitive team, there has to be some salary structure.

I do not want this to end up as an example to other young players in this organization on how to squeeze out more money.

this team will be fine with or without Jacob

 

[Bob E]

the future of this franchise does no live or die due to the status of Trouba.

would I rather he was on the team....yes.

would I pay more than 6 mil a year for his services......no.

a previous poster stated that bridge deals were used to show that the player is worth more than offered

I do not agree that Trouba has proven that.

to be cap compliant and have a competitive team, there has to be some salary structure.

I do not want this to end up as an example to other young players in this organization on how to squeeze out more money.

this team will be fine with or without Jacob

I agree with most of your post.

The team can move on without Trouba. He plays tough minutes which are hard to replace, but they can be replaced.

Chevy has his work cut out to find his replacement though. Buff or Myers would not fare too well in that role.

 

[Adam da bomb]

He plays against the other team’s best.

Myers or Buff are not usually given that role, and teams look to get their best on against someone other than Trouba and Morrissey.

If you look at his point totals and think he is playing poorly, that’s short sighted imo. there’s more to his role on this team than scoring points. The fact he’s wins his match up more often than he loses speaks volumes.

They will try to sign him. Trouba may have other ideas but his role on this team is significant. He will not be easy to replace.

Yet, someone suggested that Morrissey is worth 4 million. When he does everything Trouba does and has been the better one of the two this season and last.

 

[surixon]

Yet, someone suggested that Morrissey is worth 4 million. When he does everything Trouba does and has been the better one of the two this season and last.

Trouba was significantly better than Morrissey last season which should be expected given it was his 4th year in the league vs. JoMo's rookie year.

Morrissey imo has been better and more consistent this year so far and I think a case might be made that he has more long range upside as an all around player but that doesn't factor in with regards to contracts as the two are in completely different places in their careers with different rights (cba). Morrissey if he is willing will fit inbetween a well defind cohort of players who signed long term out of their elc. It's almost a given based on a whole host of comparible players in similar situations that he will get between 4.5 and 5.4 million on a 6 to 7 year deal.

Trouba was offered 5.5 x 6 if the rumors are to be believed and that was before last year (where he played as a bonifed number 1 dmen) and before he had arb rights. Despite his sub par start he's easily getting north of 6 on a long term deal just based on his track record (more than 20 games this year) and the fact that he has more built in leverage (arb rights and the fact that the team will have to buy more UFA years.)

While I'm disappointed so far with his play, he isn't at all easy to replace. Myers can't play his role effectively, nor do I feel Poolman will ever be able to. We should be thankful that we have two players under 23 that can hold their own and even excel against the best the other teams can throw at us. This frees up easier ice time for playerd like Buff and Myers to excel at picking apart other teams depth players. It's really a win win for the team.