McKenzie: Shea Theodore to Vegas

[liquiduck]

Pretty sure we got the better goalie, cheers

And it only cost you a 2nd round pick.... oh wait

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Sad to see Theo go i think as long as the knights are patient he will turn into a real good player, but we ditch a bad contract and still have the Vatanen piece to play

 

[Extra Texture]

Anaheim is going to regret this. They should've just bought out Bieksa and traded Vatanen.

While nobody can know the future, I kind of agree. Vatanen might have gotten back a reduced value, sure, but I really liked Theodore based on what he had shown so far. And I guess its a game of maximizing assets (Theodore is young, cheap and good, while Vatanen costs alot more for the next few seasons).

That said, I think Vatanen would have garnered a big return, whatever the circumstances. When you have an asset like him in a trade, teams are going to pay big because they want him over another potential trade partner. The Ex draft would have been a consideration on his value, but only if there were just a handful of teams in on him. A player like that would've fetched a good return without question.

At the same time, hanging onto Bieksa and keeping their (still quite young) D-corps intact tells me the Ducks are all in on this current team. They have Kesler, Perry and Getz still in their mid/late primes for the next few years, and its clearly all about winning a cup with these guys rather than the old "retool on the fly" move.

 

[Lyons71]

That's definitely the best D core in the league.

That list doesn't show Bieksa who brings it down considerably because coaches love him for some reason.

 

[DucksRoll]

That list doesn't show Bieksa who brings it down considerably because coaches love him for some reason.

Depends what kind of minutes he plays. If he's a third-pairing minutes guy, it doesn't matter all that much. But if they're counting on him playing big minutes on 5x5 and special teams, he'll be a definite problem.

 

[lwvs84]

So last summer, the cost to dump Stoner was supposedly 2 of 1st round pick/Theo/Montour, this year the cost of protecting Vatanen/Manson was 2-3 of Theo/Montour/Steel/1st rounder according to other teams' fans. Ducks end up dumping Stoner and protecting both Vatanen and Manson for "just" Theodore. Although not ideal, it's not completely horrible either. Theodore likely isn't jumping Fowler and Lindholm in the near future (assuming Fowler re-signs), and Montour at least temporarily has jumped him with Larson hopefully close behind on the left side. Hopefully the Ducks don't go out and spend a lot on a 3rd pair d-man like they did for Stoner just to fill the 3rd LD slot. Ideally, one of the young guys is ready enough for a limited 3rd pairing role with Bieksa until Vatanen gets back. This should give the Ducks the leverage in trade talks for Vats now since they don't need to trade him anymore. They are no longer up against the cap nor are they in danger of losing him, while a lot of teams will probably need a top 4 RHD that is good at both special teams and solid 5v5.

 

[91Fedorov]

So last summer, the cost to dump Stoner was supposedly 2 of 1st round pick/Theo/Montour, this year the cost of protecting Vatanen/Manson was 2-3 of Theo/Montour/Steel/1st rounder according to other teams' fans. Ducks end up dumping Stoner and protecting both Vatanen and Manson for "just" Theodore. Although not ideal, it's not completely horrible either. Theodore likely isn't jumping Fowler and Lindholm in the near future (assuming Fowler re-signs), and Montour at least temporarily has jumped him with Larson hopefully close behind on the left side. Hopefully the Ducks don't go out and spend a lot on a 3rd pair d-man like they did for Stoner just to fill the 3rd LD slot. Ideally, one of the young guys is ready enough for a limited 3rd pairing role with Bieksa until Vatanen gets back. This should give the Ducks the leverage in trade talks for Vats now since they don't need to trade him anymore. They are no longer up against the cap nor are they in danger of losing him, while a lot of teams will probably need a top 4 RHD that is good at both special teams and solid 5v5.

Sorry the real conversation is getting washed out here.

I agree with you. It's not a terrible result. The Ducks were always going to lose something. But holding on to Theodore would have been a great luxury. And he does have the potential to still break out. I'd say that if we use that cap space to improve our team offensively, I'd consider it a win overall.

 

[Sojourn]

Losing Theodore hurts, and I was hoping Murray could convince McPhee to take less, but that's about what I expected. It's less than the value of Vatanen or Manson, and even better value if Stoner is going too. Theodore may well be the prize of Vegas' prospect pool, but he was below guys like Steel and Montour, and Larsson is arguable.

Good deal for both sides.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

I think this is a great move for anaheim, losing theodore sucks but we have larsson and montour... and mahura looks like another great draft pick by anaheim.

Keeping manson > theodore.... we also dumping stoner which frees up more money to help our forwards, and we will still likely move vatanen. Now we get to sell vatanen at full price too which is significant id think

Also good for vegas they get stoner and theodore on their defense

But I thought you were not going to lose anything valuable in this deal? Is that not what all of you Duck fans were saying?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

But I thought you were not going to lose anything valuable in this deal? Is that not what all of you Duck fans were saying?

You are welcome to check my post history, pretty sure ive said Theodore and a 2nd pretty often.

 

[Lacaar]

Is that the Deal?
Theodore and a cap dump negative value stoner? (does stoner have any value? can't say i'm familiar with him)

If that's the case I think they came out quite well.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Is that the Deal?
Theodore and a cap dump negative value stoner? (does stoner have any value? can't say i'm familiar with him)

If that's the case I think they came out quite well.

Um hes alright when he plays... but overpaid by 1- 1.5 million pretty easily... def a cap dump tho.

 

[dracom]

But I thought you were not going to lose anything valuable in this deal? Is that not what all of you Duck fans were saying?

We aren't losing Manson or Vats for nothing like so many users were saying. We're dumping salary even, we're losing the most expendable prospect in exchange. It's a good deal for both teams.

 

[liquiduck]

Is that the Deal?
Theodore and a cap dump negative value stoner? (does stoner have any value? can't say i'm familiar with him)

If that's the case I think they came out quite well.

Stoner was a serviceable bottom paring guy. The he got hurt and missed most the season. Now he's just a pure cap dump.

Maybe he can return to a serviceable bottom paring defender for vegas.

 

[vavera4ka]

People keep forgetting that 3rd-liner on a very deep team does not equal 3rd-liner...

By that logic Malkin is a 2nd-liner.

 

[Muston Atthews]

A third pairing specialist who plays 20+mins per night in all situations including excelling on the PK?

Sounds like Roman Polak with wheels

 

[Muston Atthews]

People keep forgetting that 3rd-liner on a very deep team does not equal 3rd-liner...

By that logic Malkin is a 2nd-liner.

People keep forgetting that Vatanen had less points at even strength than Roman Polak.

Malkin puts up first line numbers playing second line. Big difference

 

[lwvs84]

Sorry the real conversation is getting washed out here.

I agree with you. It's not a terrible result. The Ducks were always going to lose something. But holding on to Theodore would have been a great luxury. And he does have the potential to still break out. I'd say that if we use that cap space to improve our team offensively, I'd consider it a win overall.

But would he have the same opportunity to break out here? Sure he'd have a lot of power play time (but probably still be behind a healthy Vatanen, Montour, and Fowler), limited 5v5 time (and probably playing with Bieksa), and be behind Vatanen, Lindholm, Fowler, and Manson at the very least on the PK. In Vegas he'll have every opportunity to get minutes. I think more than Vegas or Anaheim, this is a good move for Theodore. I hope he succeeds with it.

 

[oobga]

As an Oilers fan, I love this. Theodore looks like a stud and IMO he will be better than Vatanen and Manson down the road. Glad the Ducks have one less top end D coming down the pipe.

Makes sense for the Ducks though. Stick with the current guys in their prime to make the best of those last Getz/Perry/Kesler years.

 

[BigKing]

So, Ducks fans, this would jive with my post the other day that this all depends on what Murray considers to be "nothing big" when talking about the ED, right?

Theodore is a big thing for Vegas and is considered to be a big thing by HF; however, he isn't anything big in relation to Anaheim's current D corp or even the future due to their pipeline. Plus they get the sweetener of Stoner's bad paper going away.

I can't read through 17 more pages of this saga, but that sums it up, right? Good for both sides as expected by those that understood the situation. Bad for the Pacific as Vegas gets better and Anaheim maintains while getting cap space to play with.

 

[duckpuck]

As a ducks fan, its a little disappointing to lose Theodore. I thought Vatanen would be dealt and Bieksa would/should waive or be bought out.

Losing Theodore is disappointing, but he would have been my first choice to go as opposed to losing Montour, Larsson, Manson or Vats (for nothing). Theodore is a talented skater and good passer/at running the power play. To this point, his defense (particularly lateral movement against fast forwards) has been pretty bad. My belief is that area will improve (he's still young) but that is not assured. If he does improve, then LV will have a top pairing d-man in the next few years. If not, he's still a valuable asset, but one the ducks won't regret losing given what they have in their system already.

Having stoner go really helps the ducks. I also wouldn't be surprised if another piece comes back to the ducks - maybe a backup goalie on a reasonable contract.

Overall, seems like a fair trade for both teams.

 

[Lyons71]

Depends what kind of minutes he plays. If he's a third-pairing minutes guy, it doesn't matter all that much. But if they're counting on him playing big minutes on 5x5 and special teams, he'll be a definite problem.

Well I don't see his role changing so.... we can expect him to destroy either one of fowler/hampus/vats seasons

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

As an Oilers fan, I love this. Theodore looks like a stud and IMO he will be better than Vatanen and Manson down the road. Glad the Ducks have one less top end D coming down the pipe. Of course, Murray will probably just find another one

Enter Jacob Larsson and Josh Mahura


I agree to an extent, but manson fits with our 2 top dmen fowler and lindholm... idk that Theodore will ever get to their level so he was likely never going to get a big chance in Anaheim. Vatanen I don't expect to be in an Anaheim jersey too much longer because Montour is also ready.

So while I do think Theodore will be better than vatanen and manson overall.. I think manson fills a bigger need in Anaheim.. and I think Theodore still has time before he passes vatanen.

 

[NEWFowler]

I kinda hope Vatanen goes to Toronto now, so all of the Leafs fans that are here bashing him can backpeddle and tell us how great of a trade it was for them never change.

 

[liquiduck]

So, Ducks fans, this would jive with my post the other day that this all depends on what Murray considers to be "nothing big" when talking about the ED, right?

Theodore is a big thing for Vegas and is considered to be a big thing by HF; however, he isn't anything big in relation to Anaheim's current D corp or even the future due to their pipeline. Plus they get the sweetener of Stoner's bad paper going away.

I can't read through 17 more pages of this saga, but that sums it up, right? Good for both sides as expected by those that understood the situation. Bad for the Pacific as Vegas gets better and Anaheim maintains while getting cap space to play with.

I think that's a fair take.